New Graphics engine, Graphic creation thread.

Discuss, get help with, or post new graphics for TTDPatch and OpenTTD, using the NewGRF system, here. Graphics for plain TTD also acceptable here.

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Alltaken
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New Graphics engine, Graphic creation thread.

Post by Alltaken »

Hi guys, as a designer, i personally find it more inspiring to create graphics for a higher resolution format, a format which my work is being seen in good light. one that is in line with modern computer power, and one that reflects the quality of OTTD as a game.

This thread, and the graphics created because of it are done so that a new Graphics engine can be created.

It is a chicken and egg situation, do the coders code a new Graphics engine first, or do the Graphics artists provide graphics first?

well IMO the artist has the first role, we need to provide enough graphics before a new engine is created, in order for it to be tested and designed for. this will leave a "functioning" version of OTTD with new graphics. it may have a limited number of graphics, but once it is working, more people will design graphics. ultimatly it will result in a total recreation of graphics and graphics engine at the same time.

I have somewhat taken it upon myself to organise this effort. not because i want to direct people, nor because i know everything. but because...
A) I know Blender very well and can help people
B) i have already started creating graphics for the game
C) i have talked to many coders about things, and continue to do on an ongoing basis
D) nobody else is taking lead
E) i wish to be a manager once i leave university, so i may as well use my skills, and gain experience at the same time.

i have compiled a small list of graphics needed, (not all are needed for a functioning game, but many more are needed for a diverse game)

http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Enhan ... _Engine.29

For example i wish to create graphcis for an airport (so wrote so on the list). this does not mean nobody else can do the same. we have small, medium, and large airports needed. furthermore, why can't we have more than one graphic for each size?

so i say, MAKE GRAPHICS everyone. and then figure out where they fit in the list, if needed add a spot and add a link to your 3d file.

i am using software called Blender to create 3d files which are then rendered out to 2D. blender is open source. and available from http://www.blender3d.org

if you wish to create ships,planes, trains, buses.... then create the model in 3d (to scale within its own right)

then once a final graphics file format, size and layout are finalised, this 3d object can be made to a consistant OTTD scale. (this means you can start work on graphics now, and not worry about things like "scale", just make them in 3d and we will work it out later)

if you wish to make buildings, factories.... then come talk to me to get a 3d file so that you can build it in relation to the sprite and other onjects scale.

the flat ground sprites will be 128x64 pixels rendered. which is about this scale and quality
---->Image<----

the sprites will be 24bit RGBA.

my MSN address is your_mums_hot(AT)hotmail.com if you want to suggest new graphics, create graphics, or get help with blender.

if you just want to debate, discuss... graphics then point your IRC client to irc://freenode/openttd

P.s. my effort was inspired by Mauddib's mockup, i hope my effort can inspire others.

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Post by traskjd »

I like that you're going to hopefully give some more direction to the graphics creation - we seem to have two groups:

1) Creative people who are working on graphics to support changes that are coming in OTTD (as well as graphics for an engine they hope will eventually appear :) )
2) People who make a couple of train graphics for the old format and leave it at that.

The only problem I see with the current model is that we're not seeing much development in the area of graphics. The ideal situation would be that we have grf files (and possibly the future format) of the graphics in the SVN repository. The difficulty obviously being we can't host "partial" grf files (as we can't include the ones that ship with the game). So maybe the first step would be to generate (even if they look like crap) a whole pile of replacement graphics and try to setup the type of situation I mention here.

I know I would really enjoy grabbing the latest grf every few day and watching the graphics improve - we don't need perfect replacements right off the bat.

I look forward to reaidng more about your thoughts and hope that what you're trying to do is supported.

Another Kiwi,

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Post by Alltaken »

traskjd, actually another wellingtonian :P

for me personally 2) is not an option, if OTTD stagnates i.e. doesn't update graphics it WILL die.

hence why i am making this effort. and hence why IMO people are investing more wisely by going for a new GFX engine. making graphics for the current engine (if its going to be changed) might have a short life. making them for a new engine is perhaps risky since its not done yet, but it may pay off in big ways.

its a choice every artist makes, and one that i unbiasedly say "JOIN ME" ha ha ha

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Post by DaleStan »

Changing the graphics engine at this point may or may not be a good idea. My main issue with OTTD right now is the lack of replacement vehicles, currently found in GRF files. I do know this is being worked on. If the graphics engine changes, then all that work goes out the window, and every single graphics set has to either pick one of OTTD and the patch, or code and draw for both. OTOH, a complete split from TTD's graphics does mean that you can define your OWN method of creating new vehicle, landscape, etc. sets, hopefully without the mess that is NFO coding. NFO is an extremely powerful language, but it is very hard to understand, and very easy to mis-type.

*Re-reads post* More stuff that should really be said to the Devs, and only the Devs.
*trims some of it* Maybe I need to quit posting in the OTTD forums for a while.
To get a good answer, ask a Smart Question. Similarly, if you want a bug fixed, write a Useful Bug Report. No TTDPatch crashlog? Then follow directions.
Projects: NFORenum (download) | PlaneSet (Website) | grfcodec (download) | grfdebug.log parser
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Re: New Graphics engine, Graphic creation thread.

Post by Joker »

Great work you're doing
However, let me correct you a bit
Alltaken wrote:It is a chicken and egg situation, do the coders code a new Graphics engine first, or do the Graphics artists provide graphics first?Alltaken
Neither and both. You're talking about the "Construct" phase of the project. But first, you should do "Initiate"; that means, lets talk with the devs and people (maybe forum thread) and tell the options. Then choose one of them and say "This is what will be done". When it's clear what the parameters of new system will be, coders and artists can work more or less independent on the new system.

I don't want to discourage you, however I see a risk here that devs will agree on system that is a bit different from what you expect.
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Post by Alltaken »

This is a call for people to collect 3d files of vehicles for me :D.

anyone here know ANYBODY or ANYWHERE on the internet, that has free 3d files for download (DXF, 3DS, VRML, OBJ, LWO...) then please try to get them.

i can convert these file formats into one which can be used for grapfics for us, and change them to accept company colours etc...

if people can possibly do this it would be awsome.

legal requirements are.

A) you must seek a personal e-mail response from the creator of the file allowing,

1) other people to edit the object for OTTD (open source, we need to edit it to fit our needs)
2) the file to be distributed/ put on the net.
3) the 3d format to be changed from the one they work in.

B) you must get their name, or screen name if their real name is secret. for credit. this needs to be kept with the file.

C) you must tell them what the project is about.



this will help out all of us, sofar i have gotten a 3d building of the al-arab-somthing. and am working on getting two trucks.

it only requires a few minutes work on 20 peoples behalf to find trains, planes, trucks (even futuristic ones of all these would be awsome) and then we have enough vehicles for a playable game.

download the files to your computer then contact me tell me what you have and i can organise a transfer place/time (unless you or the creator has html location)

i will do the converting to .blend and .ottg (Open Transport Tycoon Graphics)



thanks people. its much appreciated.

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Post by ThorRune »

With permition

Image
Barend Botha

Full list:
http://thorrune.sea-host.net/asylum/viewtopic.php?p=8#8
Last edited by ThorRune on 26 Nov 2004 10:41, edited 10 times in total.
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Post by ThorRune »

[gone]
Last edited by ThorRune on 26 Nov 2004 09:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Alltaken »

hmm ThorRune i don't know what program can open a .dff file LOL

is it possible to ask the guy if he has a different format for it.

like a LWO, 3DS, Blend...?


but yeah thats what i want, thanks.

also its better for me if only the final items are shown in this thread (rather than all contacted) as out of about 5 people contacted maybe only 2 will reply or say yes, so keeping all the non-permission items in here also might get it a bit cluttered.

thanks though, and keep it up.

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Post by ThorRune »

I'll mail him and ask.. But i seem to remember, there is a .diff plugin for 3D mark (Or whatever the program was called) on the site. I'll take a look.

Edit:
http://gta3.gamigo.de/download.php?do=download&id=463

Zmodeller. I think it can save other formats, and it can import GTA3 vehicles.
Mit diesem bekannten Tool kann man Fahrzeuge und andere 3D Objekte neu erstellen bzw ändern... jetzt in der Version 1.07a
I have no idea what that means, but that's te discription. I haven't mailed yet, i'll just keep that on hold and see it you can open it...


I would like to keep everything here, actually, because else i'm going to clutter up. Atleast the images, not the quotes (Unless they answer). I'll keep the list in my first post over trucks with permition
Last edited by ThorRune on 26 Nov 2004 09:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Alltaken »

ThorRune

just ask for vehicles, if you get accepted to the conditions, then post them here. otherwise it would be appreciated if you don't.

what is the point in me creating a sticky thread, full of links to vehicles we DON'T HAVE PERMISSION FOR. there is none.

i am not trying to discourage you from getting them. but i don't need to know every step of the process LOL.

also GT3 vehicles might not be ideal. what would be ideal are model archives for 3d applications. you see game graphics are LOW POLY. and in OTTD since they are being pre-rendered, its better to have high poly vehicles.

100K polys is not many for a 3d object.


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Post by ThorRune »

Let me say it like this: If i don't have the stuff here, i'm going to clutter up. I'll forget wich vehicle was whos, say we have permition to the wrong vehicles, and generally clutter it up. If i'm going to continue, i got to have some way to arrange my stuff
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Post by traskjd »

ThorRune: I don't think he's saying don't post them at all - he means don't post them until we have permission because we'll end up with a 100 page thread with 100 images and only have permission to a few of them.

Find the model, contact the creator, then, should they agree, post on the forum the image, contact details etc - that way we have a topic with JUST vehicles we can use and have contact details for the creators :-)

- JD
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Post by ThorRune »

I understood that, but i was thinking i had to keep them arranged for myselfe, so i wouldn't forget what's what and who's who and so on... I just remembered, i have my own dump forum... So i'll just use thoce.
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Post by ThorRune »

We got permition for a new truck:

Image
Iulian Pintea made it.

I'm glad to hear this! But I would like to know more o this project. You can
use my car ONLY if It's not an commercial project and you don't have any
financial benefits. If it's a comercial project I would like some little part o
this benefits too.

Hope you understand me. Please mail and tell me.
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Post by Alltaken »

thorrune, i cannot actually import dff files into the zmodeler (the link you gave me)

i will try to find somthing to do it, however untill then, you could put it on pause, untill i have figured a way to do it. currently the two you have shown us look pretty sweet. i am just hoping that its not all texturing, otherwise they might be hard to use.

but yeah, i'll try to sort it out.

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Post by ThorRune »

I'll ask one or two of the modellers i have gottan in touch with. What formats can you use?
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Post by Alltaken »

i can use 3ds, lwo, blend, dxf, obj.

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Post by Killer 11 »

Yay the carmageddon 2 uses .obj(there are some cool real cars for it :wink:
Thorrune check these sites:
http://www.wasted.polygonized.com
http://mb.polygonized.com/eb_car.shtml

there are some more but i'm too lazy to find them

Some cars

84 VW VANAGON(VAGON)
Image

58 VW PANEL BUS
Image

56 GM TDH-5106
Image

GMC FISHBOWL(dunno real car name ask the modeler)
Image

i've found these on http://mb.polygonized.com/eb_car.shtml

and on page 2 i've found these two:

84 FORD ECONOLINE
Image

And this could be a disaster(turtle atack lol)
TURTLE VAN
Image

all cars are cpyrighted by Econobrick econobrick@polygonized.com
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Post by ThorRune »

@Killer, i'll take a mailing round in a while.



Image
By Aleksander Napieralski.

We got permition to this :D darn, it's cool looking.




About opening the .diff files:
Busman wrote:Hi, Zmodeler will not open the file because I locked the
file with Zmodeler. Please see if you can use the .3ds file
Ive attached. It is intextured so you just have to reload
the textures with 3d studio max.

If this does not help please mail me and I will tell you
how to unlock the .dff file with Norton Commander.

Thanks, Barend Botha.
As we are using multiple GTA3 vehicles, i'll ask him for directions with the commander.





@ OTTD team
Err... I send all my mails signed:

Thor-Rune Hansen, On the behalf of the OpenTTD team.

I hope that's OK?



Edit:
@Killer, is it only me or is there no e-mail adresses on the site? I can't ask for permition w/o email adresses :P
And also, as akalmania said a while ago, don't post vehicles we don't have permition to use. A couple of them look rather good though

Edt2:
@Alltaken, i got the answer.
Hi, look for the .dff file in northon comander and mark the
file, then press F4, this will open an edit list like in
the picture. scroll to the very bottom an then up slowly,
locate the last 8 digits that are not "00" and then change
them to "00 00 29 00" then save the changes. If this has
been done correctly the file will be able to open in
Zmodeler and can then be exported to any other format. Note
that some modellers have found a whay to lock their own
file in their own why and cannot be opened, this is rare
though.

Barend Botha.
Did that work?
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