Japan Set Development

George · Post by **George** » 19 Apr 2004 04:58

Korenn wrote:George, don't get me wrong, I totally agree that the Japan set should have a unique look, even on landscape.
But that was a bit... too much
that post a while back with blue grass suggested that we use the tropical color but then make it blueish just a bit. Sounded ok to me...

Please, explain me, what do you mean saying "blueish just a bit"?

nilsi · Post by **nilsi** » 19 Apr 2004 09:03

I find it dangerous to distribute changed sprites from game. Because this is the legally troubling part. For TTDPatch you need the game, else it brings you nothing. But distributing game art is not a good idea.
That is why I painted the usset crossings from scratch (and why they progress slowly).
Nowadays nobody cares about that, I think somebody even uses
Maxis art for TTD. Some people just paint a few pixels (e.g. road markings) and publish it. This is dangerous, especially if Locomotion indeed will be published as TT2.
In my dreams I see a patch feature to use grf files that include only changes
("diff", not whole sprites as currently, but a list of commands like
copy 0,0,21,56 from trg1r.grf to 45,7,8,9 in mysnow.grf
paint red circle 20,20,40,40
and so on
it should be possible to enhance i.mage to write those lists during the painting process
)
against the original sprites. That would solve all
problems but it has to be a transparent (not enduser visible) feature, else everybody
starts to publish his own simpler to use traditional grf files.
PS: MB shows however, that it is possible to prevent changed versions from being published.
Maybe you get the point.

imsofatty · Post by **imsofatty** » 19 Apr 2004 10:06

Try the Tropical grass I think it looks pretty good.

George · Post by **George** » 19 Apr 2004 12:08

nilsi wrote:I find it dangerous to distribute changed sprites from game. Because this is the legally troubling part. For TTDPatch you need the game, else it brings you nothing. But distributing game art is not a good idea.
That is why I painted the usset crossings from scratch (and why they progress slowly).
Nowadays nobody cares about that, I think somebody even uses
Maxis art for TTD. Some people just paint a few pixels (e.g. road markings) and publish it. This is dangerous, especially if Locomotion indeed will be published as TT2.
In my dreams I see a patch feature to use grf files that include only changes ("diff", not whole sprites as currently, but a list of commands like
copy 0,0,21,56 from trg1r.grf to 45,7,8,9 in mysnow.grf paint red circle 20,20,40,40 and so on it should be possible to enhance i.mage to write those lists during the painting process) against the original sprites. That would solve all problems but it has to be a transparent (not enduser visible) feature, else everybody starts to publish his own simpler to use traditional grf files.
PS: MB shows however, that it is possible to prevent changed versions from being published. Maybe you get the point.

I didn't say it is a complete set. but before making a new set it is good to test the idea. When the idea is accepted, it is possible to draw it from sketch. But for test usage it is easier to use repainting of default graphics. may be it is very bad, but to waste time for creating a test material from sketch is worse.
So, when the idea is acceped (including the colours scheme), it would be possible to draw it from sketch.
Now, what do people think about green-blue landscape?

Korenn · Post by **Korenn** » 19 Apr 2004 12:21

George wrote:Please, explain me, what do you mean saying "blueish just a bit"?

well, basically what you did, but a lot less blue

nilsi · Post by **nilsi** » 19 Apr 2004 13:44

@george:
You will draw new rails and new streets?

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 19 Apr 2004 15:15

Why would we need new rails and new streets? There's nothing wrong with the ones that are there.

I don't see a copyright problem with altered sprites, any worse than there already is. Why? Because the GRF file format is not an open-source format, it is a proprietary format invented by (I suppose) Chris Sawyer. So by using that format at all, you are technically violating his copyright because he didn't distribute the algorithm to make it. But nobody cares.

Anyway, the GRF files are just as useless as the Patch unless you have the game. What are you going to do, use them as wallpaper?

We've argued for a long time in many different threads about copyright issues, and I am convinced that as a practical matter they are irrelevant, with a possible exception if you live in Germany but even there it's unlikely you'd have any trouble. But the bottom line is, if you think you are doing something that might cause problems for you, then don't do it. nilsi, if you are really concerned that if you draw bluegrass for the Japan set, someday the lawyers will come after you, then don't - George can do it. That's OK.

George · Post by **George** » 19 Apr 2004 15:39

nilsi wrote:@george:
You will draw new rails and new streets?

Yes, if we shall accept the idea. But it will take a lot time. I hope I shall do it not alone.

nilsi · Post by **nilsi** » 19 Apr 2004 17:36

The long text was written as explanation.

krtaylor wrote:
Because the GRF file format is not an open-source format,...

This is an explicit exception in German law:
reverse engineering for interoperability is allowed and file formats are generally considered interoperability relevant (think about a word processor)

Nils (end of discussion)

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 19 Apr 2004 17:44

Ah, so then in Germany you are safe. Congratulations.

Korenn · Post by **Korenn** » 28 Apr 2004 17:54

Well then, after a long time of nothing finally some work on this set

I was playing with my shinkansen tracks and wanted to have something to compare it with... the maglev trains look nothing like the shinkansen trains, so I spent some time on getting one of Sanchimaru's trains ingame.
I went for the 500 series, since that's my personal favorite, and with the help of broodje this worked.

Then I realized that the shading was all wrong... and some of the sprites were incorrectly sized, and Sanchimaru had said he wasn't sure he was using the correct company colors so naturally he hadn't

Below a shot from the old version and then some of my resized, reshaded and recolored version. Sanchimaru, any comments? or anyone else?

SHADOW-XIII · Post by **SHADOW-XIII** » 28 Apr 2004 18:45

train is very nice altough horizontal version is too big

mnorman · Post by **mnorman** » 28 Apr 2004 18:52

Yes, I agree. all of the veiws should have some way of telling where the division between the cars is, even if it is just a line of darker colour to represent accordians.

Lilman424 · Post by **Lilman424** » 28 Apr 2004 21:23

and the diagonal one looks far too....slanted.....the perspective is wrong.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 28 Apr 2004 21:41

Wow, that's pretty cool and I love your Shinkansen tracks!

We have always known that the shading on ALL of Sanchimaru's trains is wrong. He has given specific permission to anyone to improve them. If you look on the tracking table, you'll see that most of them are flagged as "needing work," and those that are flagged as finished, have someone else's name on them also. Purno among others is working, slowly, at re-shading them all, but there's lots of work yet to be done. There's a couple more that have been shaded but I cannot update the table until this weekend.

If you'd like to finish your shading work and post your sprites, I'll be glad to include them and credit you. Of course I'd also like the sprites for the track. Great work!

By the way, it's not true that nothing is happening, it's just that things are slow because the emphasis is on finishing the US set. Once that's out, DanMacK will start work on the Japanese steamers. Of course, we welcome all available artists, there's plenty to do! But this set is not in hiatus, far from it.

vvvf · Post by **vvvf** » 05 May 2004 09:00

Hello. This is my first post in TT-Forum.

I know that you are composing "Japan trainset", and I'm very interested in it.

I'd like to join your project and advice you from the viewpoint of Japanese railway fan. But, It's a pity that I can connect the Internet every second or third week because I must prepare for entrance exams of universities till March 2005.

But I'll try to supply informations about Japan and Japanese trains.
I hope to see more of you!

About me:
I'm live in Osaka.
I'm 17 years old and a high school student.
My English isn't so well. Sorry.

P.S
I think GRF of 500series is very nice!
I took 500series three times.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 05 May 2004 12:38

Well, I guess that means it isn't that practical for you to do any drawing.

But I can think of some things that you can do which would be useful:

- Commonly known "nicknames" for the trains.
- General information about which trains are relatively more or less reliable.
- Information about which trains are relatively more or less expensive to buy or to operate.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 06 May 2004 18:33

Just wanted to point out that Purno has shaded several more of the Shinkansens. There's only a few left that need shading; then we just have to draw the remaining trains, particularly the steam ones. This set isn't moving ahead too fast, but it definitely is making progress.

imsofatty · Post by **imsofatty** » 07 May 2004 06:57

Does anyone know when we will be able to use at least 1 of these trains.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 07 May 2004 17:42

Short answer: No
Long answer: Since Oracle is the only one who can encode them, and he's currently working on the US set, it won't happen until some time after the US set is released.

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