British narrow gauge (preservation project needs volunteers)
Moderator: Graphics Moderators
I'm happy to go with whatever the consensus is, but personally I've always preferred the idea of having narrow gauge as its own set. Because the trains will be slow and have a much lower capacity than normal, there will be hardly any operational advantage to using them - their realistic ability to go round sharper corners and into smaller holes isn't represented by the game engine - so what's the point if there are also normal trains available? :)
As far as dates go, as people have said the interesting part of narrow gauge development is outside the allowed time-span of the game. Ideally you'd want to start around 1860. So my initial idea was to use a bit of suspension-of-disbelief, and pretend that 1920 = 1860, then work forwards from there. Obviously this would also be imcompatible with the BR set (although it does open the possibility of doing a Victorian standard gauge set... sorry, must stop thinking up more work...)
I know the game can't start any earlier than 1920 - but could something in the patch change the way the date is displayed to 'fake it' back a bit?
As far as dates go, as people have said the interesting part of narrow gauge development is outside the allowed time-span of the game. Ideally you'd want to start around 1860. So my initial idea was to use a bit of suspension-of-disbelief, and pretend that 1920 = 1860, then work forwards from there. Obviously this would also be imcompatible with the BR set (although it does open the possibility of doing a Victorian standard gauge set... sorry, must stop thinking up more work...)
I know the game can't start any earlier than 1920 - but could something in the patch change the way the date is displayed to 'fake it' back a bit?
Fake the date? Hmm, that's an interesting idea. Definitely one for the Patchteam.
Development Projects Site:
http://www.as-st.com/ttd
Japan, American Transition, Planeset, and Project Generic Stations available there
http://www.as-st.com/ttd
Japan, American Transition, Planeset, and Project Generic Stations available there
There are three different families of these: tube (the ones running in deep tubes), sub-surface (the ones running in cut-and-cover tunnels) and surface (DLR). Allow three generations for each, plus two passenger cars for "middle" units. Add on some locos from the pre-LUL companies, maybe two of these to kick the whole thing off. There's 13 already.krtaylor wrote:You don't have to have 15 vehicles for LUL because I bet the performance characteristics are very much the same.
I would assume they all have similar or near-identical capacities (e.g. 30 of whatever units are in use).So, the flat-sided gondola is one car (actually two, small and large) but it has as many as 30 different appearances, for all the different cargos it carries, and different empty-appearances as well (the insides have different linings to protect some cargoes). But all occupying one slot.
Different brakes, different specs ...Yes, it would be nice to have a brake van, but I think you only need one. Its livery could change over time if needed.
In general, I see that the tube/light-rail/tram system is typically a whole lot more useful, and period-appropriate than NG.
As for the date, we've just pushed the introduction dates back 10 years for now. That way, we have 10 years less inventing to do
The point I was making is that the performance stats are all pretty much the same (I don't think the LUL speed-limit has increased much since 1920.) So, you figure how many you need available at any one time (say, three) and have them change their appearance over the years to be whatever the generations they were. That way everything will look right, the older ones stay looking old until you replace them, and the newer ones look as they should. It's like in the DBset, some of the locos are in different paint depending on when you bought them, but the ones you already own stay in their old paint.ChrisCF wrote:There are three different families LUL: tube (the ones running in deep tubes), sub-surface (the ones running in cut-and-cover tunnels) and surface (DLR). Allow three generations for each, plus two passenger cars for "middle" units. Add on some locos from the pre-LUL companies, maybe two of these to kick the whole thing off. There's 13 already.
No, they have differing quantities of the different cargoes they can be fitted to hold. Play with the DBXL set sometime, you'll see how it works. It's really quite slick, and efficient.ChrisCF wrote:I would assume they all have similar or near-identical capacities (e.g. 30 of whatever units are in use).So, the flat-sided gondola is one car (actually two, small and large) but it has as many as 30 different appearances, for all the different cargos it carries, and different empty-appearances as well (the insides have different linings to protect some cargoes). But all occupying one slot.
How do you mean? Brake vans in TTD wouldn't actually do anything, they would just be "eye candy." They don't contribute to additional stopping power or anything. So you can have their livery and appearance evolve over the years as needed, while always remaining just the one slot. Kind of like tenders.ChrisCF wrote:Different brakes, different specs ....Yes, it would be nice to have a brake van, but I think you only need one. Its livery could change over time if needed.
Now THAT is a very effective argument, I cannot dispute it.ChrisCF wrote:In general, I see that the tube/light-rail/tram system is typically a whole lot more useful, and period-appropriate than NG.
You mean, you are going to start the set in 1970?!!? I am really looking forward to the classic steam locos of BR, LNER, GWR, et al. The 1930s was a classic time for those, as we are replicating on the other side of the pond in the US set.ChrisCF wrote:As for the date, we've just pushed the introduction dates back 10 years for now. That way, we have 10 years less inventing to do
Development Projects Site:
http://www.as-st.com/ttd
Japan, American Transition, Planeset, and Project Generic Stations available there
http://www.as-st.com/ttd
Japan, American Transition, Planeset, and Project Generic Stations available there
Again, capacities increase over time. I'm trying to allocate generously, since I'd rather overestimate the space I need, and end up with some to spare (to put more stock from various types, maybe some extra heritage DMUs, or a steam loco, or some futuristic invention), than underestimate it and run out, having to decide between key vehicles in the set.krtaylor wrote:The point I was making is that the performance stats are all pretty much the same
They could hold a little mail (IRL, this tended to be a few parcels, 4 bags of mail seems an appropriate enough compromise), or possibly valuables.How do you mean? Brake vans in TTD wouldn't actually do anything, they would just be "eye candy."
What the ... !?You mean, you are going to start the set in 1970?!!?
I said the introduction dates have been pushed back by 10 years. As an example, last year's Class 390 Pendelinos are actually introduced in game year 2013. Where does that leave people starting the game in 1921?
Bugzilla available for use - PM for details.
Okay here's my first attempt at drawing graphics from scratch. We have (left to right): Ffestiniog England tank, four wheel carriages, modern tourist carriages (based on Born Acorn's but a bit smaller), generic four wheel mineral trucks. I've put a DB set train below it for scale comparisons. Criticise away!
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- A real England tank
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- and in larger-o-vision
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I THINK you can change the capacity through a livery override. We're looking into it still though.ChrisCF wrote:Again, capacities increase over time. I'm trying to allocate generously, since I'd rather overestimate the space I need, and end up with some to spare (to put more stock from various types, maybe some extra heritage DMUs, or a steam loco, or some futuristic invention), than underestimate it and run out, having to decide between key vehicles in the set.krtaylor wrote:The point I was making is that the performance stats are all pretty much the same
Oh, you pushed it THAT way. That will be confusing as heck but OK. I think there have already been requests to Josef to allow some sort of calendar-diddling to take place, where the displayed year is X amount less than it "really" is according to the game.ChrisCF wrote:They could hold a little mail (IRL, this tended to be a few parcels, 4 bags of mail seems an appropriate enough compromise), or possibly valuables.How do you mean? Brake vans in TTD wouldn't actually do anything, they would just be "eye candy."
So make them refittable.
ChrisCF wrote: What the ... !?
I said the introduction dates have been pushed back by 10 years. As an example, last year's Class 390 Pendelinos are actually introduced in game year 2013. Where does that leave people starting the game in 1921?
Development Projects Site:
http://www.as-st.com/ttd
Japan, American Transition, Planeset, and Project Generic Stations available there
http://www.as-st.com/ttd
Japan, American Transition, Planeset, and Project Generic Stations available there
I just looked at the NG graphics, and while they look great, another problem occurred to me - the game counts "slots" per car regardless of how short they are. So from the game's point of view, the NG train is twice as long as the DB train beneath it, and would require twice as long of a station, regardless of the fact that visually it would only take up half of it.
Development Projects Site:
http://www.as-st.com/ttd
Japan, American Transition, Planeset, and Project Generic Stations available there
http://www.as-st.com/ttd
Japan, American Transition, Planeset, and Project Generic Stations available there
This is so that the train can load in one go, right? If the loading speeds were set so that each wagon loaded to it's (low) maximum in one 'chunk' rather than 5 units at a time, would that help negate the problem?krtaylor wrote:I just looked at the NG graphics, and while they look great, another problem occurred to me - the game counts "slots" per car regardless of how short they are. So from the game's point of view, the NG train is twice as long as the DB train beneath it, and would require twice as long of a station, regardless of the fact that visually it would only take up half of it.
If you had wagons that were no less than 50% long and you doubled the loading rate from the default then you'd end up with the original loading speed, i.e. that would negate the problem.
US Train Set v0.87.1 now released: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=8754
Don't forget to read the manual: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Manual
Don't forget to read the manual: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Manual
True. OK then, that would be the proper solution.
Development Projects Site:
http://www.as-st.com/ttd
Japan, American Transition, Planeset, and Project Generic Stations available there
http://www.as-st.com/ttd
Japan, American Transition, Planeset, and Project Generic Stations available there
- Born Acorn
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Maybe... I'm up to 1997 and running out of things to connect to other things. I've also had a load of work on lately, but I did have a go at a WD Baldwin (1917) that I'm not totally happy with. This will be the slowest set ever made ;)
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- Not sure how to represent the very open cab at this slightly-top-down angle
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- Born Acorn
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I'd recommend this ( lots and lots of pics)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASI ... 95-7618264
(the book looks different really)
I recommend it
BTW That baldwin is the one imported by Col Stephens cheaply for the WHR, right?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASI ... 95-7618264
(the book looks different really)
I recommend it
BTW That baldwin is the one imported by Col Stephens cheaply for the WHR, right?
There and various other places, yeah. I think they've found another one somewhere to restore now?Born Acorn wrote:BTW That baldwin is the one imported by Col Stephens cheaply for the WHR, right?
I've got a fair amount of books and drawings already - the designs of a lot of the Ffestiniog type engines are pretty well engrained into my brain.
- Born Acorn
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- Joined: 10 Dec 2002 20:36
- Skype: bornacorn
- Location: Wrexham, Wales
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- Born Acorn
- Tycoon
- Posts: 7595
- Joined: 10 Dec 2002 20:36
- Skype: bornacorn
- Location: Wrexham, Wales
- Contact:
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