passengers to any station whilst using cargodist

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peter1138
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Re: passengers to any station whilst using cargodist

Post by peter1138 »

ChillCore wrote: 10 Jul 2024 09:17 but anyhoo ... just my 2cc @Devs ... can we has PAX generation at 25%-ish please when cargodist is enabled?
user-configutable would be even better ;)
What, like this?

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LaChupacabra
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Re: passengers to any station whilst using cargodist

Post by LaChupacabra »

ChillCore wrote: 10 Jul 2024 09:17 but anyhoo ... just my 2cc @Devs ... can we has PAX generation at 25%-ish please when cargodist is enabled?
user-configutable would be even better ;)
I dare to supplement Peter's post a bit ;)

This is a feature that has been available since 14.0 (#10606) :) In the JGRPP version, this setting has been available for years, although it is not as clear.
Scale tawn cargo production.png
Scale tawn cargo production.png (299.53 KiB) Viewed 257 times
And honestly, this seems to be the best/easiest way to improve network performance.


But there are also several other way that may prove effective.
  • Decrease the value for the "Saturation of short paths before using high-capacity paths" setting.
    Thanks to this, cargodist will not try so hard to send everything only via the shortest route (e.g. by plane), but will also more often take into account longer, but less busy routes. I haven't used it for a long time, but it seems to me that 50% instead of 80% is a value that changes a lot.
    Cargodist setting - saturation of paths.png
    Cargodist setting - saturation of paths.png (53.34 KiB) Viewed 257 times
  • More alternative connections.
    This may be effective when you reduce the above setting. Then both planes and buses will contribute to relieving the network of excess passengers / mail.
  • Replacing vehicles with more spacious and faster-loading ones.
    This is the basis without which it is hard for me to imagine an efficient network. Imho with default vehicles, it is basically impossible to create an efficient large network. Unless the amount of cargo generated by the city is reduced.
    In my experience, contrary to popular belief here, adding new vehicle sets never caused any errors and I did it very often when the current ones became insufficient. What you absolutely should not do is remove add-ons. The most efficient ones are those from the 2CC sets (trains, buses, trams), ships can be any of the "fish" sets, and planes can be av8/rav8 or WAS.
ChillCore wrote: 10 Jul 2024 09:17 the more capacity you create ... the bigger (and faster) your towns and cities grow
If no script is used in the game to change this, the amount of a city cargo supports has no effect on its development rate. ;)
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Re: passengers to any station whilst using cargodist

Post by Redirect Left »

OK, so i played about with some stuff.
Using a cargo production rate of 25%, combined with linear instead of quadratic cargo generation gave a 'comfortable' usage of routes, with some of the main backbone routes still approaching red, but to sensible what you'd expect levels. Although it left the routes covering outlying villages basically abandoned. In case there is any changed behaviour between vanilla and JGRPP, i am using JGRPP 0.60.1 for this save.

These are not very clear settings-wise to the end user i feel, that those settings exist and how best to tweak them. Would it be feasible to make 'scale town cargo production' have an 'automatic levelling' option? If it sees a large portion of your routes are red lining, it gives you a bit to calm it down, and then slowly nudges the levels down to maintain a 'good balance', i would suggest for that no more than 50% (great place to put a further option if set to automatic) of your routes been read as oversaturated. The option could be true too, you pushing that cargo around like a champ? Here try an extra 15% production.
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Re: passengers to any station whilst using cargodist

Post by 2TallTyler »

The code is possible. Automatic mode would have to be opt-in, in my opinion, and probably single-player-only (with no AI).

In any case, I would prefer to see some explicit notification of these automatic adjustments, via a news message perhaps. I am not a big fan of opaque features that change the game in ways the player is not aware of.

Railroad Tycoon 3 had events that increased passenger generation when you completed milestones like connecting specific cities to your network, and it showed a newspaper each time. I could see a similar pattern in OpenTTD, like "Public complains of overcrowding on [COMPANY] vehicles, seeks other modes of transportation" when production is decreased, and "Public praises [COMPANY] service, ridership up 50%" when production is increased.

Getting those specific increase and decrease amounts could be challenging, and players will want configurable increases and decreases, and what about when only some routes are overloaded, and what about multiplayer, and what about when GRFs do things like multiple passenger types (Tourists, etc.) and what about...?

What I mean to say is, I have no interest in wading into this user experience design challenge, but would happily review a PR from anybody who is interested enough in this feature to put in the work. :)
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Re: passengers to any station whilst using cargodist

Post by Redirect Left »

2TallTyler wrote: 11 Jul 2024 12:22 The code is possible. Automatic mode would have to be opt-in
I wasn't suggesting otherwise. It'd go against the almighty "keep it as TT(D) as possible" to do it by default.

I think the stuff mentioned above is an example of settings that just go ignored or unused because no one knows they exist, and only come across them incidentally or when they need them through these forums or the Discord (or... reddit i guess)

It does lead to the possibility of aside from offering an optional automated experience on cargo handling as i suggested above (which isn't needed for people who don't use cargodist anyway, i suspect).
Is it possible to introduce a new category of messages at the bottom? Instead of "Train #9001 is getting old, pls replace before it kills someone". If the game state is noting you're in a pickle that could be resolved with a setting, use it to page/scroll a message saying "Your route cargo density is very high. Perhaps try altering cargo scaling, or changing to Linear instead of Quadratic!".
if you throw them all in a category named "tooltips" or something, its very easy for players to just have all of them messages suppressed in one go and disabled them from showing, as you can for say disasters, first train to X, or trains getting old.

Using them sorts of messages could introduce people to all sorts of settings & possibilities they didn't realize were a 'thing'
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Re: passengers to any station whilst using cargodist

Post by 2TallTyler »

Other games make similar suggestions with Advisors, so I can see something similar in OpenTTD. It's just a question of making the framework, then deciding on the tips and their triggers.
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