Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by Andrew350 »

So, I'm trying to decide whether the current electricity mechanic really works or not and honestly I'm thinking it's just a bit too awkward and needs to go, but could use some opinions on what to do instead.

Someone once suggested an alternative idea of delivering solar panels, which has the benefit of still providing basically the same resource but without needing the current awkward delivery system, and also potentially opens up some possible future industry chain ideas.

One small hesitation is that going "solar punk" might feel a bit out of place for a post-apocalyptic world, but then again this would be intended as the final cargo to essentially climb out of that hole, so maybe it's appropriate?

Also I would need to figure out an appropriate production chain to make it sensible and still provide that "final level" challenge, without feeling too contrived. I have sand and oil production already, so the basic raw ingredients are there, but how to get that (and maybe other stuff) to the final product while ensuring the transportation of everything along the way still makes sense might be tricky.

I'm obviously just spitballing a bit here but I definitely feel like something needs to change and could maybe do with some ideas :)
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by Fuerfrost »

Well, you could go the route of increasingly complex requirements akin to FIRS or something. Honestly, that's always been my biggest gripe about wasteland is that there's not enough complexity
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by LaChupacabra »

I've already written many theories here, here and here... so I'll write some more. :mrgreen:
Andrew350 wrote: 28 May 2023 00:53 So, I'm trying to decide whether the current electricity mechanic really works or not and honestly I'm thinking it's just a bit too awkward and needs to go, but could use some opinions on what to do instead.
For me, electricity is ok. Maybe only transmission lines, if possible, should be a type of road that can't connect or cross with any other. And maybe the power plant shouldn't burn that oil so fast. If you remove it, I won't cry, but I also think it's an interesting gameplay element.

Ok, there's one more thing, but it's a more general point. It was better if electricity and other cargoes could be delivered to non-removable enterprises instead of to buildings that cease to accept them over time. I can understand the fading acceptance of irradiated food, but building materials? Electricity? Regardless of whether it makes sense or not, constantly rebuilding networks and connections is just tedious and discouraging.

However, speaking of a really significant problem... when I returning to Wasteland after a long break, I had no idea what to do to make cities grow and not shrink. The problem is definitely the incomprehensible rules of urban development. A script that would show what the city needs in the city window would really be useful. Alternatively, it could be the story book page that will open when you start the game. The script could also distribute electricity to surrounding cities. ;) That was the plan for the NWD script. Industrial production was counted within a certain radius from the city (the farther away, the smaller the impact). It was the same in plan to the electricity. Perhaps the script could also decide what trees would grow, or it could plant them near forest nurseries. ;)
Fuerfrost wrote: 28 May 2023 11:00 Well, you could go the route of increasingly complex requirements akin to FIRS or something. Honestly, that's always been my biggest gripe about wasteland is that there's not enough complexity
Yes, for example, a robot factory that would replace the "dying" Wastelanders would be useful :)

Btw. There's still at least some very good yours art that hasn't been added... ;)
download/file.php?id=217490
download/file.php?id=215421
download/file.php?id=194416
by oftcrash
viewtopic.php?p=1175792#p1175792
I am sorry for may English. I know is bed.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by odisseus »

As for myself, I like the Wasteland in its current form (version 0.5.0). Its complexity lies not in the multitude of cargo types, but in the way the supply and demand evolves along with the cities.

At the initial stage, all you need is delivering water and irradiated food, and you'll get plenty of wastelanders to boost your extraction industries. As the cities advance to the next stage, you need to set up a complex network in order to deliver clean food, as well as keep connecting new towns in order to maintain the supply of wastelanders. Finally, after all the towns have become self-sufficient, you need to set up passenger services, which would have been a complete waste of money at any of the previous stages.

Please don't turn the Wasteland into yet another imitation of FIRS.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by Revenge_of_KioTheDev »

Andrew350 wrote: 28 May 2023 00:53 So, I'm trying to decide whether the current electricity mechanic really works or not and honestly I'm thinking it's just a bit too awkward and needs to go, but could use some opinions on what to do instead.

Someone once suggested an alternative idea of delivering solar panels, which has the benefit of still providing basically the same resource but without needing the current awkward delivery system, and also potentially opens up some possible future industry chain ideas.

One small hesitation is that going "solar punk" might feel a bit out of place for a post-apocalyptic world, but then again this would be intended as the final cargo to essentially climb out of that hole, so maybe it's appropriate?

Also I would need to figure out an appropriate production chain to make it sensible and still provide that "final level" challenge, without feeling too contrived. I have sand and oil production already, so the basic raw ingredients are there, but how to get that (and maybe other stuff) to the final product while ensuring the transportation of everything along the way still makes sense might be tricky.

I'm obviously just spitballing a bit here but I definitely feel like something needs to change and could maybe do with some ideas :)
any chance you could release electric mains as separate grf? i would be willing to code it myself if not but can not find sprite sheet any where
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by Andrew350 »

Hi all, so just to give an update and remind you that I'm not dead, I have started working on this again but it has been a while so I'm starting with some low-hanging fruit.

A couple of years ago 2TallTyler commented that he was confused about what to do about the delivery of wastelanders and what effect it would have on the mine industries, so I (finally) updated the industry text to hopefully give a clearer description of what is happening.

Now the stockpile text shows the actual amount of Wastelanders delivered rather than the default useless "0 waiting" text (new screenshot is showing an unserviced industry, so still 0, but it is a realtime value now), and as such I've simplified the help text to explain what to do based on that value. Hopefully it will be more clear now :)

Unnamed, 3000-01-01.png
Unnamed, 3000-01-01.png (47.95 KiB) Viewed 3175 times
There have been some other decisions, and improvements so far, but I will reveal those at a later date. I am still trying to get re-acquainted with the code I left behind in the meantime, and assess what I'm going to do in the long-term, specifically about replacing the electricity mechanic with an extended industry chain :)
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by Revenge_of_KioTheDev »

Andrew350 wrote: 06 Aug 2023 11:33 Hi all, so just to give an update and remind you that I'm not dead, I have started working on this again but it has been a while so I'm starting with some low-hanging fruit.

A couple of years ago 2TallTyler commented that he was confused about what to do about the delivery of wastelanders and what effect it would have on the mine industries, so I (finally) updated the industry text to hopefully give a clearer description of what is happening.

Now the stockpile text shows the actual amount of Wastelanders delivered rather than the default useless "0 waiting" text (new screenshot is showing an unserviced industry, so still 0, but it is a realtime value now), and as such I've simplified the help text to explain what to do based on that value. Hopefully it will be more clear now :)


Unnamed, 3000-01-01.png

There have been some other decisions, and improvements so far, but I will reveal those at a later date. I am still trying to get re-acquainted with the code I left behind in the meantime, and assess what I'm going to do in the long-term, specifically about replacing the electricity mechanic with an extended industry chain :)
if so, is source code available? would like to mess around with electric pipe, see if can make mod to provide it separately

thank you for this set
most often i play opengfx mars so am glad another "what-if" scenario is possible with just mods
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by Jebus »

Hi all!

First of all I'd like to thank you for that nice mod, I enjoy it a lot! It's a whole new experience while playing OTTD. Great work!!! :bow:

I've made a litte scenario to test Wasteland and I want to share it. Created in jgrpp-Patchpack Version 0.56.2
Wasteland_Map_v0.1_jgrpp_0.56.2.scn
(795.29 KiB) Downloaded 14 times
Welcome to the Mojave!
It's a map with limited resources. Basically all of the water, the only Food Lab / Building Material Factory / Chemical Plant and all the Farms are in the Southeast of the map so you are forced to build up the three cities in this corner first. From this on you should be able to transport water etc. to the other cities on the map to grow. The goal is to bring New Vegas to self-sufficiency from a distance.
The scenario is semi-tested. I hope there is enough water on the map to deliver to all of the towns.

Tested with jgrpp-Patchpack and over 500 cars in the starting phase
Oh I would recommend to put "Static Secondary Industries" off - otherwise the fun is gone ^^

Criticism is welcome! Hope you have fun.

-----

But here a little suggestion in the end. Instead of draining electricity to power substations I'd welcome it if it would be possible to boost water pumps with it. Would have helped me on my map to generate more water for the northern cities in the later game.
Also I would love to have a second tier buggy. I love that thing ;)

And a last question. What exactly is the use of the highway? Is there a higher speet-limit?
Last edited by Jebus on 09 Feb 2024 08:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by kamnet »

Jebus wrote: 08 Feb 2024 20:47 Tested with jgrpp-Patchpack and over 500 cars in the starting phase
Was it created with JGRPP? If so, please make a note of this and which version was used. Scenarios created in JGRPP cannot run on the standard OpenTTD client.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by Jebus »

kamnet wrote: 09 Feb 2024 05:21
Jebus wrote: 08 Feb 2024 20:47 Tested with jgrpp-Patchpack and over 500 cars in the starting phase
Was it created with JGRPP? If so, please make a note of this and which version was used. Scenarios created in JGRPP cannot run on the standard OpenTTD client.
Thanks for the piece of advice, I edited my post
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by Auge »

Hello

Meldrian, a team member of the german Linux gaming online magazine holarse.de, recently ran a Wasteland session and wrote about it on Mastodon in german language. :-)

[edit]
translated with deepl.com:
I'm really excited right now.
It's about #openTTD
Did you know there's a mod for it that transforms the game map into the Wasteland from #Fallout?
Heavens, there's even a scenario map that recreates the game world from parts 1, 2 and 3. I'm moving irradiated food from Shady Sands to Vault 13 right now!
It's totally insane. It's not just the visuals, it's a completely customised Wasteland-style inventory cycle.
It's great.
[/edit]

Tschö, Auge
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by senfmann »

Hello there! I really like this mod and idea, good stuff. :bow:

TL;DR I'm stupid and the problem solved itself, but I thought maybe you'd like to know this.

Came from the Fallout scenario and was going crazy because I could for the love of all that's holy not figure out why I couldn't grow towns. They never accepted water for whatever reason. Everything else was fine, it was to the point I set up advanced industries to somehow escape this conundrum, which proved fruitless, Shady Sands was still at a population of 20, living in ruins. I even tried unloading the water with building materials (who were also not accepted at this stage) forcibly but only the food was taken. No matter where I scanned, no station would accept water. I even found a remote shack that was already on Level 2 of the building and could technically accept building materials.
Tried it without the scenario, now I couldn't generate maps because it aborted at a failed town generation (no valid space for towns), I reset everything I did and could generate them normally without this GRF. Reset my entire game to a blank slate, changed language to US etc, still not possible with the Wasteland mod. I was starting to go crazy and in a vain hope created this account to ask what's happening.
Then I found, wew, I was using the Beta version of OpenTTD that recently came out (mainly for the graphics and the bus unbunching and I barely use modifications, this is a new world to me). Turned it off to last stable release and *poof* it works. Now I will use the Beta only for non-modified games. It's weird too because I tried a few scenarios who worked quite well with the Beta.

The point of me writing this, other than to let off steam (I "wasted" like 90 minutes troubleshooting and research(I read this entire thread! in hopes someone had the same problem)) is maybe you'd want to know that for some reason the new OpenTTD version might break a few things with accepting water and town generation.

Have a nice day y'all! 8)
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by agentw4b »

Auge wrote: 09 Feb 2024 11:05 Hello

Meldrian, a team member of the german Linux gaming online magazine holarse.de, recently ran a Wasteland session and wrote about it on Mastodon in german language. :-)

[edit]
translated with deepl.com:
I'm really excited right now.
It's about #openTTD
Did you know there's a mod for it that transforms the game map into the Wasteland from #Fallout?
Heavens, there's even a scenario map that recreates the game world from parts 1, 2 and 3. I'm moving irradiated food from Shady Sands to Vault 13 right now!
It's totally insane. It's not just the visuals, it's a completely customised Wasteland-style inventory cycle.
It's great.
[/edit]

Tschö, Auge
Scénář Fallout 1,2,3 jsem vytvořil před mnoha lety Já, ale nepovažuji to za dobrou mapu. Problém je v tom, že jsem znal jen velmi málo měst na východním pobřeží USA, která přežila jadernou válku a zamoření viry v roce 2077, takže mapa je většinou prázdná a města na západě jsou naopak příliš hustě zaplněná. spolu. Mapa měla být ve větším rozlišení, nebo měla obsahovat pouze západní pobřeží USA. Další Fallout mapu vytvořil někdo jiný roky po mně, ale nelíbilo se mi nepřesné umístění některých tamních měst. Ale hrál jsem jen Fallout 1, Fallout 2, takže novější hry neznám. Ale je fajn, že to někdo chválí.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by pasantoro »

senfmann wrote: 17 Feb 2024 01:20 Hello there! I really like this mod and idea, good stuff. :bow:

TL;DR I'm stupid and the problem solved itself, but I thought maybe you'd like to know this.

Came from the Fallout scenario and was going crazy because I could for the love of all that's holy not figure out why I couldn't grow towns. They never accepted water for whatever reason. Everything else was fine, it was to the point I set up advanced industries to somehow escape this conundrum, which proved fruitless, Shady Sands was still at a population of 20, living in ruins. I even tried unloading the water with building materials (who were also not accepted at this stage) forcibly but only the food was taken. No matter where I scanned, no station would accept water. I even found a remote shack that was already on Level 2 of the building and could technically accept building materials.
Tried it without the scenario, now I couldn't generate maps because it aborted at a failed town generation (no valid space for towns), I reset everything I did and could generate them normally without this GRF. Reset my entire game to a blank slate, changed language to US etc, still not possible with the Wasteland mod. I was starting to go crazy and in a vain hope created this account to ask what's happening.
Then I found, wew, I was using the Beta version of OpenTTD that recently came out (mainly for the graphics and the bus unbunching and I barely use modifications, this is a new world to me). Turned it off to last stable release and *poof* it works. Now I will use the Beta only for non-modified games. It's weird too because I tried a few scenarios who worked quite well with the Beta.

The point of me writing this, other than to let off steam (I "wasted" like 90 minutes troubleshooting and research(I read this entire thread! in hopes someone had the same problem)) is maybe you'd want to know that for some reason the new OpenTTD version might break a few things with accepting water and town generation.

Have a nice day y'all! 8)
I'm trying to generate a new game using Wasteland (v 0.5.0), but I keep getting the same error:
when I get to the stage 'Build or generate towns' and there is only one left, the script
keeps running and then stops with the error message 'Map generation aborted... no suitable town locations'
I've tried different combinations in the world generator, but the error occurs in all of them.
I'm using the official OpenTTD 14.0 from the website and OpenGFX base graphics set, no AI.
Is there something I'm doing wrong or forgetting?
Attachments
wasteland_world-generation.png
wasteland_world-generation.png (163.1 KiB) Viewed 1230 times
wasteland_generate-towns.png
wasteland_generate-towns.png (147.77 KiB) Viewed 1230 times
wasteland_tonws-error.png
wasteland_tonws-error.png (435.1 KiB) Viewed 1230 times
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by senfmann »

pasantoro wrote: 15 Apr 2024 12:18
I'm trying to generate a new game using Wasteland (v 0.5.0), but I keep getting the same error:
when I get to the stage 'Build or generate towns' and there is only one left, the script
keeps running and then stops with the error message 'Map generation aborted... no suitable town locations'
I've tried different combinations in the world generator, but the error occurs in all of them.
I'm using the official OpenTTD 14.0 from the website and OpenGFX base graphics set, no AI.
Is there something I'm doing wrong or forgetting?
Hello! Unfortunately 0.5.0 does not work with OpenTTD 14.0 as of now for some reason. It breaks the town generation as you see. The only way to experience is either through using the GRF I provided with the Fallout map, but I can't guarantee it doesn't break other stuff, like accepting water, although a quick look into my old save worked fine. New generation with Wasteland 0.5.0 doesn't work because of the problem you describe. You need to use the 13.4 release unfortunately until it gets fixed.

Regards
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by kamnet »

pasantoro wrote: 15 Apr 2024 12:18 I'm trying to generate a new game using Wasteland (v 0.5.0), but I keep getting the same error:
when I get to the stage 'Build or generate towns' and there is only one left, the script
keeps running and then stops with the error message 'Map generation aborted... no suitable town locations
senfmann wrote: 15 Apr 2024 14:35 Hello! Unfortunately 0.5.0 does not work with OpenTTD 14.0 as of now for some reason.

I got it figured out I think. Wasteland 0.5.0 is doing something weird with the roads that is now failing in OpenTTD 14. If you load a NewGRF road set after Wasteland, problem is resolved with the downside that it's probably building a paved road and thus breaking he immersion a little bit, but it's playable.
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by senfmann »

kamnet wrote: 15 Apr 2024 15:07 I got it figured out I think. Wasteland 0.5.0 is doing something weird with the roads that is now failing in OpenTTD 14. If you load a NewGRF road set after Wasteland, problem is resolved with the downside that it's probably building a paved road and thus breaking he immersion a little bit, but it's playable.
Thanks, I figured as such. For some reason it doesn't like the new roads, but I couldn't find a workaround, thank you!
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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

Post by pasantoro »

kamnet wrote: 15 Apr 2024 15:07
pasantoro wrote: 15 Apr 2024 12:18 I'm trying to generate a new game using Wasteland (v 0.5.0), but I keep getting the same error:
when I get to the stage 'Build or generate towns' and there is only one left, the script
keeps running and then stops with the error message 'Map generation aborted... no suitable town locations
senfmann wrote: 15 Apr 2024 14:35 Hello! Unfortunately 0.5.0 does not work with OpenTTD 14.0 as of now for some reason.

I got it figured out I think. Wasteland 0.5.0 is doing something weird with the roads that is now failing in OpenTTD 14. If you load a NewGRF road set after Wasteland, problem is resolved with the downside that it's probably building a paved road and thus breaking he immersion a little bit, but it's playable.
Thanks, I will try it.
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