Random Transport Chatter

Take a break from playing the game and chat here about real-world transportation issues!

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Redirect Left
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Redirect Left »

So firstly, this paragraph refers to historical events, don't be alarmed its nothing fresh you've missed.
I recently became aware of AeroFlot Nord Flight 821, which crashed with the loss of all lives. It seems like the flight crew did everything possible to not land the plane in a safe manner.
It seems like a prime example of crew arguing over what is the best course of action, which ends in precisely zero of the right actions being taken, causing a certain crash.
It is alarming how this was allowed to happen, with staff trained to... arguably mixed levels. In the end, it was discovered at least one of the cockpit crew were intoxicated.
I came across this video, by someone who is trained and has knowledge of events by reading and seemingly fully understanding the report into the crash. Which really highlighted what went wrong, how it went wrong, and how much of a colossal mess up occurred here. Even worse, with the weird manoeuvres the plane was making it is likely the passengers were aware the end was near.
The black boxes were recovered, which revealed the mess up entirely to investigators. Despite this happening back in 2008, i am amazed that this could have happened in the current millennium, it seems like something i'd have expected to occur, and perhaps did, much earlier on in the world of aviation.

If you have an interest in air crashes & investigations, i'd totally recommend watching that video, it's one of the most in-depth videos I've seen, and it really manages to explain it to levels I, as someone who hasn't even played Flight Sim could understand. Now to see if the TV show Seconds From Disaster, did an episode on this, see if it raises anything else of interest to me.

Pilot wrote: 21 May 2023 04:56I was on the farewell tour for them that ran a few weeks ago, having spent the day prior chasing them around the South Coast.
Dang, I nearly went on that farewell tour. What an unexpected TT-F meet that'd have been :lol:
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Pilot »

Redirect Left wrote: 29 May 2023 22:14
Pilot wrote: 21 May 2023 04:56I was on the farewell tour for them that ran a few weeks ago, having spent the day prior chasing them around the South Coast.
Dang, I nearly went on that farewell tour. What an unexpected TT-F meet that'd have been :lol:
I'm seemingly on most charters currently tbf! Got 4 days worth this month, and 2 with a third TBC coming up next month as well! :lol:
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Redirect Left »

Some brave soul on YouTube decided to do the over 13 hour journey from Aberdeen to Penzance, the longest single train ride in the UK to my knowledge.

Safe to say, it was... long, but apparently not terrible.,
Personally i'd hate to do it, just because the smell of 220/221s gets a little... toilety at times.
[/youtube]
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by dol422 »

Redirect Left wrote: 26 Oct 2023 13:30 Some brave soul on YouTube decided to do the over 13 hour journey from Aberdeen to Penzance, the longest single train ride in the UK to my knowledge.

Safe to say, it was... long, but apparently not terrible.,
Personally i'd hate to do it, just because the smell of 220/221s gets a little... toilety at times.
[/youtube]
Brave soul alright. Can't imagine the torture.
Take a look at: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=74993
Why do it tomorrow when you can do it today
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by orudge »

Coincidentally I just watched that last night - Steve Marsh’s channel is great, especially if you like ferries, trains and so on. He has a very accessible, personable, and down-to-earth style - I recommend it. :)
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Pilot »

Redirect Left wrote: 26 Oct 2023 13:30 Personally i'd hate to do it, just because the smell of 220/221s gets a little... toilety at times.
I'm picking this up a month late, oops!

I usually spend 3-4 hours a week as a minimum on Voyagers these days travelling to/from the office. If you get a seat on them, which is always a big if as they're wayyy too small, they're rather pleasant trains, with decently comfortable seats and the toilet smell is far better than it used to be. I could certainly think of worse long distance stock to travel from Aberdeen to Penzance on.

The CrossCountry ones are definitely showing signs of wear (especially when compared to Avanti's freshly refurbished sets), but that's of little suprise given XC have flogged their fleet for the last 20+ years, and haven't refurbished theirs. I'm also amazed how well a Voyager rides in the modern day compared to other stock. Compared to an IET, a Voyager glides along, just a shame about the engines underfloor rattling away when you have overhead wires you could use!

This reminds me, I must give a Grand Central Voyager a try now they're running some of the Bradford - London trains!
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Redirect Left »

Pilot wrote: 22 Nov 2023 10:11 and the toilet smell is far better than it used to be
Can't say i have noticed any difference in regards to the toilet smell. If i am at Wakefield heading to Sheffield or Leeds, I will wait for either a Northern train or an LNER one, just to avoid the smell and the overcrowding XC often has. At best the toilet smell is like they poured a bunch of chemicals in it & called it a day. Same smell I get if i'm within a square mile of the toilets in Meadowhall shopping centre.
which is always a big if as they're wayyy too small
I heard they got (or are getting) some extra 221s off Avanti, although its only 7. I suspect even with 70, XC would still have overcrowding issues. It's definitely a franchise who are ignoring their overcrowding issues rather than resolve them. I guess they're hoping to make it until 2027 when the franchise expires. They seem to just run double voyagers at... what comes across as arbitrary intervals and it helps... not all that much.
but that's of little suprise given XC have flogged their fleet for the last 20+ years, and haven't refurbished theirs.
Crikey, have they not refurbished them at all during their franchise? I'm rarely on them enough to notice the wear & tear, although the fact they all still have the disabled radio unit next to chairs is a little taking of the mick.
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Pilot »

Redirect Left wrote: 22 Nov 2023 17:50 If i am at Wakefield heading to Sheffield or Leeds, I will wait for either a Northern train or an LNER one
In fairness, this is the sort of passenger XC perhaps aren't that keen on moving anyway, same with those travelling from, as another example, Wolverhampton to Birmingham. There's bigger, more frequent trains on the bulk of these shorter routes that people should get rather than the already wedged XC. Of course, the majority of passengers will just take whichever train comes first on the route they wish to take, understandably so.
Redirect Left wrote: 22 Nov 2023 17:50I heard they got (or are getting) some extra 221s off Avanti, although its only 7
Yes, but these are a direct replacement in terms of carriage numbers for the now withdrawn HST fleet (7 x 5-car replace 5 x 7-car), so it's only marginal gains really. The Voyagers should at least have much better reliabilty and utilisation than a HST though! There may be a longer term expansion of the fleet beyond this, we shall wait and see.
Redirect Left wrote: 22 Nov 2023 17:50It's definitely a franchise who are ignoring their overcrowding issues rather than resolve them. I guess they're hoping to make it until 2027 when the franchise expires.
I don't believe them to be ignoring it, but an inability to order new trains, alongside a shortage of suitable 125mph diesel stock (at the same time as a shortage of diesel stock as a whole in UK) has forced their hand. When they took on the franchise 16 years ago now, they reintroduced HSTs to CrossCountry services, as they were the only spare stock out there. Of course, now with the DfT largely calling the shots post-Covid , it's a whole different game.
Redirect Left wrote: 22 Nov 2023 17:50although the fact they all still have the disabled radio unit next to chairs is a little taking of the mick.
This will go as part of the new refurbishment program that was announced as part of the extension I'd imagine. Certainly the refurbished Avanti sets don't have these now.

It's even more amusing that the Pendolino's that were built after the withdrawal of the radio function (154-157) and the additional trailers that made up some of the other sets to 11 carriages had to be built with said radios, but were never used.
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Geo Ghost »

So!

ETCS is now live on the Northern City Line (Drayton Park - Moorgate). Not in full use yet as they're training up managers and trainers.
Looking forward to when I come about to doing it, but it's going to be really weird having to quite literally ignore lineside signals! :mrgreen:


Also, yep! I'm still about guys. Mostly lurking these days, and still causing chaos in the real world :wink:
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Redirect Left »

This popped up on my feed, and i watched it, due to lots of working from home (read as: all).


Firstly, 5 days to cross the USA, dang! Grayhound seem subpar in every possible way, Everything was going wrong all the time, from missing drivers, to non-existent tickets. Plus customer support bordered on abysmal to non-existent.
You also meet some... interesting people, and some rather dodgy looking places, often the bus/coach station to start with. An interesting watch if you've got time I think.

Having said all that, i am tempted to see if i could survive and try to do it myself...
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Redirect Left »

I spent yesterday evening on the Night Tube, I thought lets experience what this is like on Mad Friday / Black Eye Friday, which is of course the last weekend before Christmas because... sometimes it kicks off slightly more often.

Didn't witness any bad things happening, but you do meet some... rather peculiar people. They're probably normal people, but they'd have a little too much of... something so i ended up giving out lots of directions & help, and a very deep discussion about the meaning of life and how London fits into that, which was definitely not on my bingo card of expected things. Overall great service, a lot of areas not ideally signposted for closed routes vs open routes at some of the larger sprawl stations that have corridors upon corridors going to other lines / platforms though.

One thing that does happen is Thameslink still operate overnight too, but that isn't a special weekend thing, so i did a run on that too, which was really really busy en route to Gatwick, I have to say. I guess those bargain 4am flight prices are worth it?
That did lead me to something concerning, I was sat at the front of the train, so i had a good view of platforms & signs where the driver sees, and my gosh there are a lot of "check aspect" signs, I would rather hope the train drivers don't need to be told to look at the signal status before going onwards! I certainly don't set off in my car without checking the lights first, at least. It makes me wonder if there was a pattern of forgetting to look up at the aspect so they had to remind them...
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Pilot »

I've travelled over the Pennines to Leeds for Christmas.

Must admit that I was somewhat concerned, knowing TPEs long term crewing issues, and knowing how my own TOC was struggling to cover today, so I played it safe and went semi-early.

The 1140 from Manchester Victoria over to Leeds was a lovely 6-car 185, I had a table to myself all the way, and was on time as well.

Now, over to CrossCountry to do the same for the 0611 departure from Leeds towards Brum on the 27th December! :mrgreen:
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Geo Ghost »

Redirect Left wrote: 24 Dec 2023 03:17 Didn't witness any bad things happening, but you do meet some... rather peculiar people.
That's just a regular day with the travelling public :mrgreen:


Redirect Left wrote: 24 Dec 2023 03:17 That did lead me to something concerning, I was sat at the front of the train, so i had a good view of platforms & signs where the driver sees, and my gosh there are a lot of "check aspect" signs, I would rather hope the train drivers don't need to be told to look at the signal status before going onwards! I certainly don't set off in my car without checking the lights first, at least. It makes me wonder if there was a pattern of forgetting to look up at the aspect so they had to remind them...
If only you knew someone who drove these lines and could give some insight.... :wink:

There's quite a lot of interesting things that can be talked about there, so I'll talk about a few things and experiences that gives a good insight to things behind the cab door :D
Basically, it's risk mitigation. They are typically installed at areas which are deemed to have a high risk of distraction, or where repeated incidents have occurred. You see all sorts of signage like that, but some of the most common are things like "DRA Reminder Boards" and "Doors Open Other Side" boards on monitors/stop boards. The "Check Signal" one is typically placed in areas where a signal may be difficult to see (or not as clear) from a stopping position, or where it is out-of-sight and it's reminding you to recall your previous signal. Or just simple if you have a lot going on in one place it's an extra reminder for your short term memory which can only hold/process a very limited number of things at a time.
With a board saying "Doors Open Other Side", this were typically used on DOO monitors which were off-side from the platform. Monitor on the left for the cab window, but platform on the right. You're coming in, trying to line up with the monitor. You're focused on the monitor, drop the speed, check the signal also on the left, bring down the speed, line-up, stop. Release doors. BUT WAIT! You've been looking at the left side that entire time. Everything is on the left from the signal, to the monitors... to the door release buttons for the left side. And there is the risk for that. It's a trap waiting to be sprung which is why we incorporate a lot of Non-Technical Skills and what's called "Personal Protection Strategies" - More on that shortly =)

Driving a car and driving a train can never be compared as they are so vastly different in the way you react, monitor, concentrate, and have awareness of what's around you. Typically in a car, you only have to really focus and worry about what's 100m ahead of you (for the most part). On a train, you have to be focused on not only what's directly in your line of sight, but you have to be thinking upwards of 2-3 miles ahead of you. You need to know what's coming up before you've seen it. You need to remember the last x-number of miles you've past and anything important. You need to have your situational awareness on-point at all times. You need to know what you're doing/planning to do next, then after that, and how that's going to affect you. You may need to concern yourself with what's on board as well or any out of course situation.

Now I mentioned 'Personal Protection Strategies'. These are basically things we do/use/say to help remind us of things and mitigate against incidents. Sometimes it's using risk-triggered commentary to remind us what we've passed or just done, or to say what we're doing ahead. Verbal is a very clever thing as saying it and hearing it back is far stronger at triggering your short term memory and can help moving key events from short term to long term - where we recall them much easier and more of them. Other simple things like "Point and Confirm". Similar to what you see Japanese railway workers using (one of my preferred methods as well!). Covering door controls is another, tapping desks, "pausing and think" for situations, hell I've known of people to sing a bit to themselves for some scenarios (I tend to sing "All the Single Yellows.." from time to time :P ). All this, plus some helpful signage, helps keep us safe and focused on the jobs at hand and reminded of any crucial information.

Now, I'll give you a very good scenario of how a drivers mind may work on what would be a very common and typical situation. As it's a good insight into the kinds of things we may be thinking/processing at all times.
Put yourself in the seat of a train for a moment, and imagine this is your story below. :)
You're running at a good 73mph, just under linespeed It's a misty damp morning, low-laying sun. There's a station coming up soon that we need to start braking for. The track is likely to be slippy in places. We need to allow a bit extra distance to test the track conditions when braking. On approach to our usual 'braking area/point' for that station, we put the brake in and gauge the conditions. There's a gentle slip, but it's controllable. We reduce the brake slightly to keep a nice brake curve for the station.
We approach a yellow signal, the speed is already well below our target speed for passing this yellow signal, that's fine. The AWS sounds and is acknowledged, all good. Continue braking, red ahead after the station. Speed has dropped to 40mph, station in sight. Aiming to hit the start of the platform at 30mph. 12 car station, we're driving a 12 car, so we're aiming for the 12-marker at the end of the platform. Gotta remember.. 12. 12. 12. We've been driving 8-cars all week and this is our first 12 in a while. The stop board is annoyingly placed on the left however and the platform is on the right. 12-right. 12-right. Oh, and I passed a yellow so the red is out of sight just round the bend out of station. 12-Rightside-RedAhead.
Suddenly there's a rumble and a bump. The sander light comes on as the train hits some poor adhesion on the track and has started to slide on the way into the platform! Blast! Apply some more brake to ensure it's under control and fortunately it reacts in good time. Excellent, this isn't a problem then. Back to the task at hand. Had a yellow signal, reduce speed. There's a station ahead to slow down for and stop at. Drop the speed gently and a little lower than usual, take it easier in case it slips. Monitoring the platform, it's fairly busy, but manageable. Everyone's standing back and clear, platform staff just gave a friendly acknowledging wave. Giving one back and a smile. Right we're nearly at 10mph, where's our marker again... there's the 8 marker. Bring the speed dow- NO! Wait, 12. 12!! Keep rolling to the end. Phew. That was a bit close! Stopped at the 12 marker, doors right, doors right, and released. Now to monitor the screens. Everyone's getting on and off fine, few late runners.
Check the time.. we're a bit late, that's alright. Check our next stop.. yup we're now running fast through the next 3 stations, good! All clear to close doors- oh blast. Someone's jumped in last second and got their bag stuck. Honestly, why would you do that?! We're late as it is anyway. Urgh, never mind they've got on. Doors are.... all shut but that one and.... click! There we go!
We have interlock, let's check the cameras and doors one last time and make sure it's safe to depart.... 1-2-3-4-5-6.... 7-8-9-10-11-12.. We're golden! Right, apply power steadily. There's a bit of a shutter as the wheels spin up a bit. We'll reduce power slightly and put a bit of sand down to help us get rolling. After all, we've got a lot more people on now making the train heavier. Aaand there we go, we're rolling. Keep powering up. 20... 25...30... slowly getting there- *BEEEEEEEEEE* - The AWS sounds. We acknowledge and think "Why that sounding- SH*T! THE RED!" Full brake applied to bring the speed down. Luckily we haven't got about 30mph yet and it's coming down in plenty of time. Signal comes into view round the corner, fortunately it's cleared to a single yellow. Thank goodness for that. Boy that was close! Power back up again to a reasonable coasting speed.
My god, TWICE in a few minutes I've nearly messed up. What's wrong with us today! We should be doing better than this. How did... oh. Ohhh!! Now we remember. When we nearly stopped at the wrong board, and before of that worry we forgot to set the DRA (used for reminding us of a red signal ahead) when we stopped. Totally forgot about the signal with everything going on. Damnit that's such a silly error! Shouldn't have done that.. and we forgot about our Personal Protection Strategies when approaching the station. Gewd this is a rubbish day- No. Shh. Clear head, Focus! Worry about that later.
Passed a single yellow, red ahead. Cost at 40, no more than 30 over the TPWS loops, bring down to 20- no, 15 for the AWS magnet as it's slippy. Got it! Back to the job at hand. Refocus attention. Check everything. Let's crack on!

Now that... is a very plausible situation that could and certainly has occurred a number of times. I've had my fair share of moments where I've lost my situational awareness and got in a twist with things, nearly made mistakes or forgotten something.
Likewise I admit I've had an incident before too when I ended up in a complete muddle and overshot a station in the early hours. Basically, without covering all the details.. reduced visibility, misread where exactly I was, head was not in a good place at the time mental health wise, and I ended up thinking I was a whole signal section away from a station still. Shut off at the 1st, brake at the 2nd, stop at the 3rd in the platform. Well with everything going on... I thought the 2nd signal was the 1st. When what I thought was the 2nd signal came into view through the misty rain, I prepared to brake. Then suddenly the platform appeared before it and slammed in the emergency. Wasn't quite enough, slipped a little in the weather, and over-shot but about 3 coaches. Not my finest moment, but in a way I'm glad it happened as I learnt a lot from it and I realised how bad my head-space was at the time and I needed to sort that out.

End of the day, we are humans. Our heads are wired to make mistakes. :? :x However, we can try and protect against that best we can and if something like a little sign can help trigger that memory bubble... I'm all game! :D

Hope that was a good and interesting read :)
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by dol422 »

Geo Ghost wrote: 12 Jan 2024 21:44
Redirect Left wrote: 24 Dec 2023 03:17 Didn't witness any bad things happening, but you do meet some... rather peculiar people.
That's just a regular day with the travelling public :mrgreen:


Redirect Left wrote: 24 Dec 2023 03:17 That did lead me to something concerning, I was sat at the front of the train, so i had a good view of platforms & signs where the driver sees, and my gosh there are a lot of "check aspect" signs, I would rather hope the train drivers don't need to be told to look at the signal status before going onwards! I certainly don't set off in my car without checking the lights first, at least. It makes me wonder if there was a pattern of forgetting to look up at the aspect so they had to remind them...
If only you knew someone who drove these lines and could give some insight.... :wink:

There's quite a lot of interesting things that can be talked about there, so I'll talk about a few things and experiences that gives a good insight to things behind the cab door :D
Basically, it's risk mitigation. They are typically installed at areas which are deemed to have a high risk of distraction, or where repeated incidents have occurred. You see all sorts of signage like that, but some of the most common are things like "DRA Reminder Boards" and "Doors Open Other Side" boards on monitors/stop boards. The "Check Signal" one is typically placed in areas where a signal may be difficult to see (or not as clear) from a stopping position, or where it is out-of-sight and it's reminding you to recall your previous signal. Or just simple if you have a lot going on in one place it's an extra reminder for your short term memory which can only hold/process a very limited number of things at a time.
With a board saying "Doors Open Other Side", this were typically used on DOO monitors which were off-side from the platform. Monitor on the left for the cab window, but platform on the right. You're coming in, trying to line up with the monitor. You're focused on the monitor, drop the speed, check the signal also on the left, bring down the speed, line-up, stop. Release doors. BUT WAIT! You've been looking at the left side that entire time. Everything is on the left from the signal, to the monitors... to the door release buttons for the left side. And there is the risk for that. It's a trap waiting to be sprung which is why we incorporate a lot of Non-Technical Skills and what's called "Personal Protection Strategies" - More on that shortly =)

Driving a car and driving a train can never be compared as they are so vastly different in the way you react, monitor, concentrate, and have awareness of what's around you. Typically in a car, you only have to really focus and worry about what's 100m ahead of you (for the most part). On a train, you have to be focused on not only what's directly in your line of sight, but you have to be thinking upwards of 2-3 miles ahead of you. You need to know what's coming up before you've seen it. You need to remember the last x-number of miles you've past and anything important. You need to have your situational awareness on-point at all times. You need to know what you're doing/planning to do next, then after that, and how that's going to affect you. You may need to concern yourself with what's on board as well or any out of course situation.

Now I mentioned 'Personal Protection Strategies'. These are basically things we do/use/say to help remind us of things and mitigate against incidents. Sometimes it's using risk-triggered commentary to remind us what we've passed or just done, or to say what we're doing ahead. Verbal is a very clever thing as saying it and hearing it back is far stronger at triggering your short term memory and can help moving key events from short term to long term - where we recall them much easier and more of them. Other simple things like "Point and Confirm". Similar to what you see Japanese railway workers using (one of my preferred methods as well!). Covering door controls is another, tapping desks, "pausing and think" for situations, hell I've known of people to sing a bit to themselves for some scenarios (I tend to sing "All the Single Yellows.." from time to time :P ). All this, plus some helpful signage, helps keep us safe and focused on the jobs at hand and reminded of any crucial information.

Now, I'll give you a very good scenario of how a drivers mind may work on what would be a very common and typical situation. As it's a good insight into the kinds of things we may be thinking/processing at all times.
Put yourself in the seat of a train for a moment, and imagine this is your story below. :)
You're running at a good 73mph, just under linespeed It's a misty damp morning, low-laying sun. There's a station coming up soon that we need to start braking for. The track is likely to be slippy in places. We need to allow a bit extra distance to test the track conditions when braking. On approach to our usual 'braking area/point' for that station, we put the brake in and gauge the conditions. There's a gentle slip, but it's controllable. We reduce the brake slightly to keep a nice brake curve for the station.
We approach a yellow signal, the speed is already well below our target speed for passing this yellow signal, that's fine. The AWS sounds and is acknowledged, all good. Continue braking, red ahead after the station. Speed has dropped to 40mph, station in sight. Aiming to hit the start of the platform at 30mph. 12 car station, we're driving a 12 car, so we're aiming for the 12-marker at the end of the platform. Gotta remember.. 12. 12. 12. We've been driving 8-cars all week and this is our first 12 in a while. The stop board is annoyingly placed on the left however and the platform is on the right. 12-right. 12-right. Oh, and I passed a yellow so the red is out of sight just round the bend out of station. 12-Rightside-RedAhead.
Suddenly there's a rumble and a bump. The sander light comes on as the train hits some poor adhesion on the track and has started to slide on the way into the platform! Blast! Apply some more brake to ensure it's under control and fortunately it reacts in good time. Excellent, this isn't a problem then. Back to the task at hand. Had a yellow signal, reduce speed. There's a station ahead to slow down for and stop at. Drop the speed gently and a little lower than usual, take it easier in case it slips. Monitoring the platform, it's fairly busy, but manageable. Everyone's standing back and clear, platform staff just gave a friendly acknowledging wave. Giving one back and a smile. Right we're nearly at 10mph, where's our marker again... there's the 8 marker. Bring the speed dow- NO! Wait, 12. 12!! Keep rolling to the end. Phew. That was a bit close! Stopped at the 12 marker, doors right, doors right, and released. Now to monitor the screens. Everyone's getting on and off fine, few late runners.
Check the time.. we're a bit late, that's alright. Check our next stop.. yup we're now running fast through the next 3 stations, good! All clear to close doors- oh blast. Someone's jumped in last second and got their bag stuck. Honestly, why would you do that?! We're late as it is anyway. Urgh, never mind they've got on. Doors are.... all shut but that one and.... click! There we go!
We have interlock, let's check the cameras and doors one last time and make sure it's safe to depart.... 1-2-3-4-5-6.... 7-8-9-10-11-12.. We're golden! Right, apply power steadily. There's a bit of a shutter as the wheels spin up a bit. We'll reduce power slightly and put a bit of sand down to help us get rolling. After all, we've got a lot more people on now making the train heavier. Aaand there we go, we're rolling. Keep powering up. 20... 25...30... slowly getting there- *BEEEEEEEEEE* - The AWS sounds. We acknowledge and think "Why that sounding- SH*T! THE RED!" Full brake applied to bring the speed down. Luckily we haven't got about 30mph yet and it's coming down in plenty of time. Signal comes into view round the corner, fortunately it's cleared to a single yellow. Thank goodness for that. Boy that was close! Power back up again to a reasonable coasting speed.
My god, TWICE in a few minutes I've nearly messed up. What's wrong with us today! We should be doing better than this. How did... oh. Ohhh!! Now we remember. When we nearly stopped at the wrong board, and before of that worry we forgot to set the DRA (used for reminding us of a red signal ahead) when we stopped. Totally forgot about the signal with everything going on. Damnit that's such a silly error! Shouldn't have done that.. and we forgot about our Personal Protection Strategies when approaching the station. Gewd this is a rubbish day- No. Shh. Clear head, Focus! Worry about that later.
Passed a single yellow, red ahead. Cost at 40, no more than 30 over the TPWS loops, bring down to 20- no, 15 for the AWS magnet as it's slippy. Got it! Back to the job at hand. Refocus attention. Check everything. Let's crack on!

Now that... is a very plausible situation that could and certainly has occurred a number of times. I've had my fair share of moments where I've lost my situational awareness and got in a twist with things, nearly made mistakes or forgotten something.
Likewise I admit I've had an incident before too when I ended up in a complete muddle and overshot a station in the early hours. Basically, without covering all the details.. reduced visibility, misread where exactly I was, head was not in a good place at the time mental health wise, and I ended up thinking I was a whole signal section away from a station still. Shut off at the 1st, brake at the 2nd, stop at the 3rd in the platform. Well with everything going on... I thought the 2nd signal was the 1st. When what I thought was the 2nd signal came into view through the misty rain, I prepared to brake. Then suddenly the platform appeared before it and slammed in the emergency. Wasn't quite enough, slipped a little in the weather, and over-shot but about 3 coaches. Not my finest moment, but in a way I'm glad it happened as I learnt a lot from it and I realised how bad my head-space was at the time and I needed to sort that out.

End of the day, we are humans. Our heads are wired to make mistakes. :? :x However, we can try and protect against that best we can and if something like a little sign can help trigger that memory bubble... I'm all game! :D

Hope that was a good and interesting read :)
That was a nice insight, and interesting.
Take a look at: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=74993
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

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Geo Ghost wrote: 12 Jan 2024 21:44 [snip]
Hope that was a good and interesting read :)
It sure was, thanks for the info!
I'm fairly well known for being a very 'last second' car driver. So its probably a good job my MS prevented me from getting anywhere in the rail industry :mrgreen:
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

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dol422 wrote: 13 Jan 2024 08:06 That was a nice insight, and interesting.
Redirect Left wrote: 13 Jan 2024 23:49 It sure was, thanks for the info!
Great to hear! It was quite enjoyable to talk about it :D


On a railway related note... I've (partially) learnt ETCS/ERTMS signalling now. I say partially as we haven't covered things that don't yet apply to the route we have ERTMS/ETCS on.
Incredible system though! Genuinely really impressive, lots of information, incredibly safe. Looking forward to seeing how it rolls out further - though I will miss driving to aspects and colourlight signalling.
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

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Geo Ghost wrote: 14 Jan 2024 00:45 though I will miss driving to aspects and colourlight signalling.
Hopefully you don't forget the new system and keep obeying the lineside signals/aspects, if they leave them up for a bit whilst the new system is running.
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

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Redirect Left wrote: 14 Jan 2024 03:39
Geo Ghost wrote: 14 Jan 2024 00:45 though I will miss driving to aspects and colourlight signalling.
Hopefully you don't forget the new system and keep obeying the lineside signals/aspects, if they leave them up for a bit whilst the new system is running.
I'll simplify quite a bit on this one :)

That is actually one of the biggest risks at the moment. Basically when we have what's called 'Level 2' in operation (L2 is the level/type of ETCS in operation) but also signals in place, it's called an "Overlay System". Same with the core, so either system can still be used. Now, the two systems work in sync with one another (or should! I'll come to that). So if a signal is red, we'll have our stop marker also show on the ETCS screen in the same spot. If the signal clears, we should then recieve clearance to proceed on the screen soon after. There is a bit of a lag of 5 seconds or so usually, which can be where one risk comes in as you could see a signal clear and go "ah good, off we go!" and then suddenly alarms blaring as you've tripped the ETCS system ('Trip' being the ETCS version of a SPAD, but covers driver error and system error).
In a similar sense, we could also have block-markers (act like signals in ETCS in a sense) between lineside signals. So receiving a single-yellow at one signal doesn't necessarily mean we have clearance all the way up to the red. It might be to the start of a platform 40m ahead - though of course that'll show on the screen.

Does this mean we completely ignore signals though when running in Level2 ETCS? Even more confusingly.. absolute not. If a signal is showing red, but we have ETCS clearance beyond it, it's a signal failure. Likewise we could have a cleared signal when the ETCS says to stop. Wrongside one at that and shouldn't happen, but we have to be aware of it.
In areas where we transition between ETCS and lineside signals, the ETCS screen will tell us how far to move and if there's a red after the transition-out, it will tell us the distance. But spotting the single yellow on the way out can also help give a good indication of what's ahead.

It's a bit confusing at times, but that's the trade off trying to not only go between two very different systems but also run an overlay system at the same time. When it goes "Signals-Away", then that'll make things slightly easier :mrgreen:
But downside is of course if the ETCS system goes down for what ever reason, we can't revert back to lineside signals. But there's things in place for that too when we get to that stage! :D
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

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Geo Ghost wrote: 14 Jan 2024 00:45Looking forward to seeing how it rolls out further - though I will miss driving to aspects and colourlight signalling.
Just think, we might not need you much longer :P
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

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Pilot wrote: 14 Jan 2024 23:12 Just think, we might not need you much longer :P
They'll always need me. It'll be too boring and quiet otherwise :twisted:
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