[NRT] RattRoads - 1.2.1 released 05-20-23!

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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.2.0 released 05-16-23!

Post by Argus »

But the city is building an improved asphalt road, which has a limit of 90 kilometers. Not a city road. I'll try and see.
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.2.0 released 05-16-23!

Post by Argus »

The limits in the "harder" setting are completely ridiculous in my opinion. From the highway it is slowly a district road.
In addition, I am afraid that if I allow houses next to a modern asphalt road, the city will again build a modern asphalt road with a limit of 80 kilometers. This is not a solution.
Moreover, it is not a solution either because it penalizes players who would prefer a faster highway but at the same time a realistic speed in the city, which is my case.
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.2.0 released 05-16-23!

Post by SkiddLow »

I had updating RattRoads version from 1.0.2 to 1.1.0, as the result i'm shockingly about town/city roads were switch to Improved Asphalt Road during randomly generated gameplay both start the game and scenario.

For the latest version 1.2.0 also same case, but i suggest to create a new road types for town/city for upcoming RattRoad updates is "Town/City Road Types", it comes with 2 variants (are distincted from U&Ratt) like Town/City Asphalt Road (regular, based-off Improved Asphalt Road, the speed limit is 50 km/h) and Urban Asphalt Road (special, based-off Modern Asphalt Road, the speed limit is 70 km/h)

Next, i suggest to additional of new road types and options (parameter) for future RattRoad updates :
- Concrete roads (+Electrified) => Basic Concrete Road (40 km/h / 25 mph) both with house and no house (use for industrial), Standard Concrete Road (80 km/h / 50 mph) and Concrete Highway (unlimited speed limit)
- Dirt Road with no house => Dirt Road designed for special road, this road type suitable to create a forestry/agricultural industrial road
- Asian road style

Then, i should add translation of RattRoads with other languages, here's the example is Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian) translation, but only for future updates :

Code: Select all

Road types/[i]Jenis jalan[/i] :
Jalan Kota Tua
Jalan Tanah
Jalan Setapak (+ Dialiri listrik)
Jalan Aspal Dasar (+ Dialiri listrik)
Jalan Aspal Ditingkatkan (+ Dialiri listrik)
Jalan Aspal Modern (+ Dialiri listrik)
Jalan Raya

Tram types/[i]Jenis jalur trem[/i] :
Jalur Trem Dasar
Jalur Trem Listrik
Jalur Trem Beton
Jalur Trem Beton Listrik
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.2.0 released 05-16-23!

Post by Andrew350 »

Argus wrote: 17 May 2023 21:57 The limits in the "harder" setting are completely ridiculous in my opinion. From the highway it is slowly a district road.
Ok...did you try the "hard" speed setting then? It gives a maximum speed limit of 60 km/h (40mph) for city-built roads and 140 km/h (85mph) for highway, both of which are reasonable for roads of those types IMO.
Argus wrote: 17 May 2023 21:57 In addition, I am afraid that if I allow houses next to a modern asphalt road, the city will again build a modern asphalt road with a limit of 80 kilometers. This is not a solution.
Towns will never build Modern Asphalt Road no matter which settings you choose. This is not an issue.
Argus wrote: 17 May 2023 21:57 Moreover, it is not a solution either because it penalizes players who would prefer a faster highway but at the same time a realistic speed in the city, which is my case.
Are you asking for a parameter to disable highway speed limits regardless of speed setting chosen? It seems like this would solve your main problem.
SkiddLow wrote: 17 May 2023 23:35 ...Town/City Asphalt Road (regular, based-off Improved Asphalt Road, the speed limit is 50 km/h) and Urban Asphalt Road (special, based-off Modern Asphalt Road, the speed limit is 70 km/h)
Those are precisely the speed limits you get for those roadtypes when using the "harder" speed setting. There is no need for special "urban" variants since any roads built within city centers will automatically gain a sidewalk anyway.
SkiddLow wrote: 17 May 2023 23:35 Next, i suggest to additional of new road types and options (parameter) for future RattRoad updates :
I'm sorry but I'm just not interested in adding more roadtypes like these. You are more than welcome to create your own set with your additional ideas added in however :)
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.2.0 released 05-16-23!

Post by Limyx826 »

Andrew, could you include a list of speed limits within the readme file for each of the parameters just for reference? Here as well if you could. Thanks.
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.2.0 released 05-16-23!

Post by Argus »

If that's the case, a hard setting will be ideal.... URatt has many road types and your kit works for me when I want to use graphics that don't work in combination with URatt due to the limit of road types. For example, now Quast's new tram lines. At Uratt, I could turn off the trams and it would work, but I would turn off the trolleybus at the same time. :)
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.2.0 released 05-16-23!

Post by Andrew350 »

Limyx826 wrote: 18 May 2023 08:08 Andrew, could you include a list of speed limits within the readme file for each of the parameters just for reference? Here as well if you could. Thanks.
Hmm, yeah that definitely seems like something that should be listed there, I've kept a reference table as a separate file for tracking purposes forever. I don't know why I haven't put it there already :lol: I'll go ahead and put this in the first post of this topic as well :)

Code: Select all

type |       easy       |       hard       |       harder     |
---------------------------------------------------------------
       mph / kph / m/s    mph / kph / m/s    mph / kph / m/s
---------------------------------------------------------------
dirt    25 /  40 /  10  |  15 /  20 /  06  |  10 /  15 /  03  |
sett    30 /  50 /  12  |  20 /  30 /  08  |  15 /  20 /  06  |
road    40 /  60 /  17  |  30 /  50 /  12  |  20 /  30 /  08  |
asp1    55 /  90 /  24  |  40 /  60 /  17  |  30 /  50 /  12  |
asp2    85 / 140 /  37  |  60 / 100 /  26  |  50 /  80 /  21  |
hway   inf / inf / inf  |  85 / 140 /  37  |  70 / 110 /  31  |
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.2.0 released 05-16-23!

Post by Argus »

If I forget to switch to kilometers per hour before starting the game and leave miles and still have the default kilometers in the game, the conversion will probably not work correctly and the limits will be off the table. I'm not sure if this is a graphics or game fault.
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.2.0 released 05-16-23!

Post by Andrew350 »

Yes, you have to make sure both settings match or the speeds will be slightly off. There is unfortunately no other way to prevent this. Luckily the difference will only be by a few km/h so functionally it will still be similar, just look odd in the menus :)
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.2.1 released 05-20-23!

Post by Andrew350 »

Just released a small bugfix for the concrete tramtrack sprites being broken in cities, and added the speed limit reference to the readme :)
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.2.1 released 05-20-23!

Post by JohnFranklin523 »

Hi Andrew,

What about adding a "custom" difficulty and let players manually adjust the speed limits to end such "complaints"? This feature is in my JF Ratt Roads.
Custom speed limits.
Custom speed limits.
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.2.1 released 05-20-23!

Post by Argus »

This is not a complete solution, it requires the players to know which road the towns will build, whereas in your set the cities are logically building the town road.
There is no such named road in Rattroad and players can choose wrongly.
If they start before the improved asphalt is available, they will simply choose the basic asphalt, but the cities will later start building the improved asphalt, which could cause another unnecessary error message.
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.2.1 released 05-20-23!

Post by Andrew350 »

JohnFranklin523 wrote: 22 May 2023 09:02 Hi Andrew,

What about adding a "custom" difficulty and let players manually adjust the speed limits to end such "complaints"? This feature is in my JF Ratt Roads.
Believe me, you are far from the first person to suggest this :wink: Basically the answer is just that I don't want to end up with 40 different parameters for every individual thing, but it's good that other sets exist which are willing to give this level of control :)
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.2.1 released 05-20-23!

Post by Argus »

That's fine though, a minimalistic set is sometimes better than one with lots of roads. You will never please everyone anyway. :)
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.2.1 released 05-20-23!

Post by LaChupacabra »

JohnFranklin523 wrote: 22 May 2023 09:02 Hi Andrew,
What about adding a "custom" difficulty and let players manually adjust the speed limits to end such "complaints"? This feature is in my JF Ratt Roads.
Andrew350 wrote: 22 May 2023 14:59 Believe me, you are far from the first person to suggest this :wink: Basically the answer is just that I don't want to end up with 40 different parameters for every individual thing, but it's good that other sets exist which are willing to give this level of control :)
That's true. Probably even I wasn't the first with my proposal from over 3 years ago. ;) However, I still think that the ability to set your own speeds or at least correct some of them would be very useful. For example, for me, the "hard" option is very close to optimal, but the restrictions for dirt and paved road are too low and unnecessarily restrict early horse vehicles. To be honest, raising these speeds by 10 km/h would close the topic for me, but there is still a modern road with a limit of 100 km/h. Almost all of Europe has a 90 km/h limit on most regional / intercity roads - that would be more fitting. But if someone is from Germany or want to play on Germany map 100 is more appropriate, while in Scandinavia 80 is the most popular limit. It's a bit sad that you can't adjust the limit to your own game or scenario.

Old quote, but I think still relevant. ;)
Andrew350 wrote: 11 Jan 2020 03:11
LaChupacabra wrote: 10 Jan 2020 00:17 There are simply too many possible variants and that's why the best addition with the tracks is NuTrack where everyone can set the speeds what they need.
My only objection to doing that is that it would result in a ton of parameters, and the user would have to hand pick the speeds they wanted for every single one of them, every time they played. I certainly don't want to do that and I don't think the majority of people do either. I understand your desire for precise control, but I'd like to find a balance between ease-of-use and customization.
I agree with this argumentation. Setting everything up every time, especially when you just want to adjust these parameters to MPH or km/h, would be tedious. It is a pity that changing the main parameter cannot change the others, then additional settings for each road would make sense, because they could provide information. For example, you change Normal to Hard and you immediately see what this means and what limits each road will have. Unfortunately, it is not. But I thought about such a solution, if it is possible at all, where apart from setting the general limits, you can also change one or several parameters, but you don't have to, because it's just an additional option. Details could be a bit different, but generally it would be something like this... :)
Ratt - additional settings.png
Ratt - additional settings.png (14.13 KiB) Viewed 626 times
Alternatively, under each of these parameters, you could put information about the default limits (I'm not convinced if m/s makes any sense). In this way it would be much more accessible information in my opinion than in the readme file only.

Regarding graphical issues, there are still some more original depots missing. They don't have to be 28 kinds. Even 2 or 3 would be enough. :)
From 13.0 it is also possible to assign different direction signs for each type of road. Imho change would be useful, at least in the case of a dirt road. Maybe also for conveyor belts ;)
Also, sorry, but I still think you've done better with the American roads graphics in places. ;) Am I the only one who thinks so?

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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.2.1 released 05-20-23!

Post by Andrew350 »

LaChupacabra wrote: 23 May 2023 23:04 But I thought about such a solution, if it is possible at all, where apart from setting the general limits, you can also change one or several parameters, but you don't have to, because it's just an additional option. Details could be a bit different, but generally it would be something like this...
While technically possible (with about a million conditional checks), the extra effort it would take seems pointless if you're just going to provide the individual items anyway.
LaChupacabra wrote: 23 May 2023 23:04 Alternatively, under each of these parameters, you could put information about the default limits (I'm not convinced if m/s makes any sense). In this way it would be much more accessible information in my opinion than in the readme file only
Hmm, maybe, the only problem is I'm not sure there's a good way to format that to be readable in the description text. Just listing a long string of words and numbers in a row doesn't sound very nice. In the readme file (which is easily accessible by clicking the button right next to it) the information is at least formatted as a table to make it easy to read.
LaChupacabra wrote: 23 May 2023 23:04 Regarding graphical issues, there are still some more original depots missing. They don't have to be 28 kinds. Even 2 or 3 would be enough.
From 13.0 it is also possible to assign different direction signs for each type of road. Imho change would be useful, at least in the case of a dirt road. Maybe also for conveyor belts
Yes, I never had much interest in drawing a new set of depots. If a nice unique set were to come along I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to adding them though :)

Regarding one-way markings, I did add a snow variant for dirt and sett roads using that feature, however I never came up with anything better for the regular dirt roads. I did ask people on Discord if they had any better ideas, but the consensus seemed to be that the existing ones are fine. "It just works"
LaChupacabra wrote: 23 May 2023 23:04 Also, sorry, but I still think you've done better with the American roads graphics in places. Am I the only one who thinks so?
Obviously not, seeing as most other road sets also seem to prefer those sprites over the "new" ones. To each their own I guess :)
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.2.1 released 05-20-23!

Post by SkiddLow »

Currently as of 1.2.1, RattRoads on Road styles is American and European/Australian style, but i suggested to add more road styles (in parameter) for upcoming version of RattRoads is Asian-style and African-style.

Here's my details of new road style graphics on RattRoads :
Asian
-Dirt road graphics will be based on Southeast Asian-style (both all climates) / West Asian-style (on desert climate (at subtropics))
-Basic road graphics will be based on average Asian asphalt road (without road marking)
-Paved road graphics will be based on Malaysian style
-Improved road graphics will be based on Indonesian style
-Modern road graphics based on S. Korean style
-The highway's graphics different than original, taken from Chinese/Japanese style
-The pavement graphics will be different than American & European/Australian style : asphalt pavement (Japan-style), red pavement and concrete pavement

African
-All road graphics to be based on Sub-Saharan Africa, while Highway's graphics based on SADC-style
- Comes with 2 pavements (elements taken from HotHut) : Dirt pavements (until 1920) and concrete pavements (post-1920)

So, RattRoads should get more road styles other than American and European/Australian style and also can be matched with town sets.
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.2.1 released 05-20-23!

Post by Andrew350 »

Well, I won't be drawing any of that myself, but if someone provides the graphics I'm not opposed to adding new style options :)
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Re: [NRT] RattRoads - 1.2.1 released 05-20-23!

Post by LaChupacabra »

Andrew350 wrote: 24 May 2023 22:13
LaChupacabra wrote: 23 May 2023 23:04 But I thought about such a solution, if it is possible at all, where apart from setting the general limits, you can also change one or several parameters, but you don't have to, because it's just an additional option. Details could be a bit different, but generally it would be something like this...
While technically possible (with about a million conditional checks), the extra effort it would take seems pointless if you're just going to provide the individual items anyway.
The point of this is that in this way you can, but you don't have to set everything up every time. :)
Andrew350 wrote: 24 May 2023 22:13
LaChupacabra wrote: 23 May 2023 23:04 Also, sorry, but I still think you've done better with the American roads graphics in places. Am I the only one who thinks so?
Obviously not, seeing as most other road sets also seem to prefer those sprites over the "new" ones. To each their own I guess :)
Well, Ratt's biggest "competitor", U&Ratt, uses modified American Roads. :wink:
Andrew350 wrote: 25 May 2023 04:22 I won't be drawing any of that myself, but if someone provides the graphics I'm not opposed to adding new style options :)
So maybe you will add an option to choose between old and new styles? ;)

I also have some sketches of my own roads, but I don't know if I'll ever finish it...
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