Random Transport Chatter

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We gotta add either CCTV or security patrols to places overnight where trains are parked, its ridiculous. Especially where newer units are given its known that graffiti twits target them.

Even with CCTV and/or Security Patrols, it still happens, so it doesn't solve the issue. Units will still get "tagged".

I'd argue in that case, whoever is watching the CCTV & Security patrols need to be fired. How on earth are they still getting tagged with security staring at the unit, dang.

[Geo Ghost]

We gotta add either CCTV or security patrols to places overnight where trains are parked, its ridiculous. Especially where newer units are given its known that graffiti twits target them.

Even with CCTV and/or Security Patrols, it still happens, so it doesn't solve the issue. Units will still get "tagged".

I'd argue in that case, whoever is watching the CCTV & Security patrols need to be fired. How on earth are they still getting tagged with security staring at the unit, dang.

For experience, it doesn't stop or deter people. Units are tagged regardless of if there are staff around.
We had security for a yard which could only hold 2-3 shorter units max. Despite regular patrols, they still would sneak in and spray up between patrols. CCTV you need a lot of investment and someone to monitor them too. Majority of CCTV is unmonitored. It's there to look back on if there's an issue.

Even yards that are active 24/7 get tagged. I've known of shunters and cleaners to be out in the yards, doing their jobs. Driver comes out to prep a train, does so without issue. Then 20 minutes later someone reports that a unit has been tagged.

Anything new is seen as a 'target'. Like a badge of honour if you can be the first to tag it. Best you can do is improve the security fencing into a yard and make it harder or more hazardous to get into a yard, or keep units in more active and busy yards to reduce the opportunity. It's an uphill battle in reality - you can't eradicate it, but you can try and mitigate against it.

[dol422]

Even with CCTV and/or Security Patrols, it still happens, so it doesn't solve the issue. Units will still get "tagged".

I'd argue in that case, whoever is watching the CCTV & Security patrols need to be fired. How on earth are they still getting tagged with security staring at the unit, dang.

For experience, it doesn't stop or deter people. Units are tagged regardless of if there are staff around.
We had security for a yard which could only hold 2-3 shorter units max. Despite regular patrols, they still would sneak in and spray up between patrols. CCTV you need a lot of investment and someone to monitor them too. Majority of CCTV is unmonitored. It's there to look back on if there's an issue.

Even yards that are active 24/7 get tagged. I've known of shunters and cleaners to be out in the yards, doing their jobs. Driver comes out to prep a train, does so without issue. Then 20 minutes later someone reports that a unit has been tagged.

Anything new is seen as a 'target'. Like a badge of honour if you can be the first to tag it. Best you can do is improve the security fencing into a yard and make it harder or more hazardous to get into a yard, or keep units in more active and busy yards to reduce the opportunity. It's an uphill battle in reality - you can't eradicate it, but you can try and mitigate against it.

I probably shouldn't say this, but that sounds hilarious. It is amazing how they are able to do this unnoticed.

[Geo Ghost]

I probably shouldn't say this, but that sounds hilarious. It is amazing how they are able to do this unnoticed.

In honesty, there are times it can be entertaining. Like a huge Pinkie and the Brain being sprayed on the side of a 313 - that was quite impressive.
And once a whole 700 was sprayed in a new colour. I don't mean a bit.. I'm talking top to bottom, front to back. The entire side. Completely. Full 12-car. As annoying as such is... there is a part of you which can't help but feel impressed how they managed it!

I've also heard a story of somewhere down south or south-west region in a depot with 3rd rail. Driver found some scrotes tagging and spraying up a train, told them to clear off, and they threated the chap with that typical "yeah come at us bro... we'll have you!".
Chap of course righto does a "nope, sod this I'm going". Tells the rest of the crew in the depot mess.. which then apparently led to a group of them all walking out with short circuiting bars in hand and slung over shoulders saying "Right lads... you were saying?". They cleared off pretty quick then!
(I'm taking a good guess this was many decade ago when you could get away with such )


Edit: Found them!

[dol422]

I probably shouldn't say this, but that sounds hilarious. It is amazing how they are able to do this unnoticed.

In honesty, there are times it can be entertaining. Like a huge Pinkie and the Brain being sprayed on the side of a 313 - that was quite impressive.
And once a whole 700 was sprayed in a new colour. I don't mean a bit.. I'm talking top to bottom, front to back. The entire side. Completely. Full 12-car. As annoying as such is... there is a part of you which can't help but feel impressed how they managed it!

I've also heard a story of somewhere down south or south-west region in a depot with 3rd rail. Driver found some scrotes tagging and spraying up a train, told them to clear off, and they threated the chap with that typical "yeah come at us bro... we'll have you!".
Chap of course righto does a "nope, sod this I'm going". Tells the rest of the crew in the depot mess.. which then apparently led to a group of them all walking out with short circuiting bars in hand and slung over shoulders saying "Right lads... you were saying?". They cleared off pretty quick then!
(I'm taking a good guess this was many decade ago when you could get away with such )


Edit: Found them!

Admittedly, it is a fine piece of art. Just an ...erm illegal art, if there ever is such a thing.
Instead of penalising them for that I would probably hire them in the decorating department.

[kamnet]

Many cities have now started working with graffiti artists to provide city beautification and pay them a decent wage for it, too. The amount of folk art that it has generated is stunning and well-respected.

Several years ago a friend of mine was commissioned to paint a mural in honor of Trinity Gay, daughter of Olympic athlete Tyson Gay and a stand-out track star in high school who was tragically killed as a pair of gangs initiated a shootout near her home. The local baseball team offered the side of their stadium to host the mural.

https://www.wkyt.com/content/news/Mural ... 34296.html

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I've started parsing open rail data for a website that is proving more annoying to work than i'd like, but with the domain trains.live, i feel its a good enough name/domain i should give it a good go.
However, it has made me realise just how few of our trains actually run precisely to timetable, with nearly everything being a least a minute or two out.

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there's also some really suspiciously named locations, such as 'Doncaster Decoy'. A google told me that it dates back to the 2nd World War, Doncaster did a lot of building and they made a few decoy places so Germany would bomb the wrong places. At least, I am going to presume it wasn't named 'Doncaster Decoy' during WWII...
Furthermore, there are 5 methods of referring to the same place, which I presume comes from decades of upgrading various digital systems, each with their own way of doing it, although usually a location doesn't use all of them though. For example, the below is for Peterborough, it's 3ALPHA code is what is often just called the 'station code' that you can usually type into rail websites to quickly refer to a station if you know it, KGX is King's Cross, ZCW is... uh Canada Water & FPK is Finsbury Park for example. STANOX is what the bit of the system I am using uses, i have to quickly search a local database I have (it's a massive list of the below data) for each data push i get, so i can quickly match it to the actual full station (or rail depot / signal block) name. I also need to download an updated version each time a station closes or opens, or a new signal that is used as a timekeeping place is added, at least from what I can tell, i don't get pushes for all signals, just major ones before some stations & major junctions, which i presume are used for time data across the network.

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One days worth of data, from a random day I pulled a few week ago was 388,820 lines of train movements, which took up 69.6MB of database space. I really now understand why rail websites don't tend to have historical data, or if they do, its only a month or so of history, as it takes up so much space. I can probably massively reduce that 69MB, as i was ditching every single bit of every movement relayed, i can probably ditch a lot of the data I never need to refer to.
Safe to say, building a website using the open access data Network Rail provides? Much bigger task than i expected, definitely has hints of systems built upon systems over decades of computer software with the many ways or referring to locations.
I basically have to glue many different data sources together, to get a coherent output, what i posted a above i just one of the databases of info i need, and a very basic parsing in real time of the movement data. I also need to start getting and parsing data for train cancellations, activations, changes in service, and also download and learn to parse the giant timetable itself, and then use the data above to amend the timetable data with live data as the trains progress around the network.

[dol422]

However, it has made me realise just how few of our trains actually run precisely to timetable, with nearly everything being a least a minute or two out.

The good news is that those services aren't cancelled. I had that this morning where my train (a TransPennine Express service) was started from Sheffield and not Cleethorpes, which meant I had to get the later LNER to Leeds when I finally arrived at Doncaster by the later Northern train.
I then got the 1145 LNER Leeds to Doncaster for my return journey (by a slim margin). I then found that the 1237 Doncaster to Scunthorpe was cancelled meaning I had to wait around an hour for the next train.

Although if a train is late and I am due to make a connecting service it isn't good when it is running late, even if it is by one minute. (I had this the other day when there was a fault with a level crossing near Appleby. There was rail replacement but it arrived at Doncaster at the same time my connecting train left for Leeds.)

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The good news is that those services aren't cancelled. I had that this morning where my train (a TransPennine Express service) was started from Sheffield and not Cleethorpes, which meant I had to get the later LNER to Leeds when I finally arrived at Doncaster by the later Northern train.
I then got the 1145 LNER Leeds to Doncaster for my return journey (by a slim margin). I then found that the 1237 Doncaster to Scunthorpe was cancelled meaning I had to wait around an hour for the next train.

Although if a train is late and I am due to make a connecting service it isn't good when it is running late, even if it is by one minute. (I had this the other day when there was a fault with a level crossing near Appleby. There was rail replacement but it arrived at Doncaster at the same time my connecting train left for Leeds.)

Ouch, TransPennine Express still not got their act together huh? I'm surprised the DfT haven't pulled an acquisition order and got it under the Operator of Last Resort yet. Especially with how eager they were with Northern whilst Arriva ran it. My personal issue with Arriva's Northern was how it was seemingly awarded with zero consideration to how much of a monopoly it gave Arriva in the North, given a lot of areas meant if you were travelling anywhere, your only options now were Arriva buses, or... Arriva trains, but in the end they ruined it for themselves, so it all worked out, I guess?

I don't absorb cancellation data myself yet, so i have no figures, but trains.im do! They have a record of the delays, cancellations vs total scheduled each day here. At the time of viewing myself, I am basically on the near-final stats for April 7th, which suggests TfW managed less than 75% of trains on time today, TPE are at 90% which is actually not too bad considering their performances over the past few month. Thankfully being so close to both Wakefield Westgate & Kirkgate, I am not too badly affected by most performance issues due to multiple choices in operators, but I do feel for people who are stuck in places where all their trains are just one operator, or at a station that is the first to get removed to make up time for delayed services, I know it happens frequently at Slaithwaite, which is now dubbed the commuter town you can't commute from due to it.
I find Merseyrail is often one of the best performing in terms of pure statistics, I'm not entirely sure why given the age of most of their stock, being from the late 70s, perhaps its because their network is mostly detached from the rest, so a messup on the network is unlikely to affect them too badly. Meanwhile down in London their 1998 trams in Croydon are now fairly unreliable, not sure how Merseyrail are keeping their 70s stock so reliable compared!

[dol422]

The good news is that those services aren't cancelled. I had that this morning where my train (a TransPennine Express service) was started from Sheffield and not Cleethorpes, which meant I had to get the later LNER to Leeds when I finally arrived at Doncaster by the later Northern train.
I then got the 1145 LNER Leeds to Doncaster for my return journey (by a slim margin). I then found that the 1237 Doncaster to Scunthorpe was cancelled meaning I had to wait around an hour for the next train.

Although if a train is late and I am due to make a connecting service it isn't good when it is running late, even if it is by one minute. (I had this the other day when there was a fault with a level crossing near Appleby. There was rail replacement but it arrived at Doncaster at the same time my connecting train left for Leeds.)

Ouch, TransPennine Express still not got their act together huh?

Unfortunately not. Multiple issues yesterday, either due to cancelled trains or them being started midway. Annoying really as they are the only regular operator for me. Thankfully Northern are also here (which I can use for free), albeit infrequently.

I would say overall that this past week I have not been affected much, allows me to do a bit of trainspotting . The only downside is that it takes me longer to get home.

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Unfortunately not.

Yes indeed. The BBC released this article a few days ago. It'll be a slap in the face if the DfT do indeed renew TPE's franchise come May.
I can only hope those who are going for early trains to Manchester Airport have Plan B's. I have one of these due to a serious spending habit, that when not on London Blackfriars is set to Leeds, and oh boy there's a lot of TPE trains cancelled that should be providing the almost 24/7 service to the Airport.
Northern lost its contract, and yet TPE is being allowed to limp along despite all its problems and TPE management no longer even pretending to offer any solutions or likely unkeepable promises to the public.


Since losing its contract and being operated by the Operator of Last Resort, Northern appears to have done very well. They struggle hugely with capacity issues, but that is mostly due to their predecessor ordering trains that are essentially like-for-like and offering barely any extra seats compared to those they replaced. Not to mention the busier stretches of track, looking at you Hope Valley, Penistone & Huddersfield Line & Castlefield Corridor having practically zero extra space for any further capacity/services, which is out of Northerns ability to rectify. I'm now really hoping after all this time, they'll keep Northern public instead of going through the pain of franchising it out again.

[dol422]

It'll be a slap in the face if the DfT do indeed renew TPE's franchise come May.
I can only hope those who are going for early trains to Manchester Airport have Plan B's. I have one of these due to a serious spending habit, that when not on London Blackfriars is set to Leeds, and oh boy there's a lot of TPE trains cancelled that should be providing the almost 24/7 service to the Airport.
Northern lost its contract, and yet TPE is being allowed to limp along despite all its problems and TPE management no longer even pretending to offer any solutions or likely unkeepable promises to the public.


Since losing its contract and being operated by the Operator of Last Resort, Northern appears to have done very well. They struggle hugely with capacity issues, but that is mostly due to their predecessor ordering trains that are essentially like-for-like and offering barely any extra seats compared to those they replaced. Not to mention the busier stretches of track, looking at you Hope Valley, Penistone & Huddersfield Line & Castlefield Corridor having practically zero extra space for any further capacity/services, which is out of Northerns ability to rectify. I'm now really hoping after all this time, they'll keep Northern public instead of going through the pain of franchising it out again.

Wouldn't have much hope about them not renewing their contract (iirc they extended Avanti's despite their problems). Although it does become a bit of a problem when they cancel the first train of the day three times within the same week .

Northern, on the other hand seeem to have improved since being taken back into public ownership - hardly any cancelled trains (from what I see coming in and out of Hull anyway) - refranchising will only reverse that.

What baffles me about this is that they did this for Northern, but are not willing to do the same for the likes of TPE, as if nothing is wrong. Kind of ironic when you consider that LNER has been taken into public ownership more than once due their issues.

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Kind of ironic when you consider that LNER has been taken into public ownership more than once due their issues.

I think it's got to the point where its barely possible for the East Coast to keep afloat financially. (the current) LNER started operations in June 2018, and currently is set to expire on 25th June* of this year. Even if it doesn't get renewed* it will be the longest franchise on the ECML since GNER, which got stripped for running out of money in 2007, which to be fair had lasted a while since the late 1990s, but collapsed only 2 year into its renewal. Next up, National Distress Express East Coast, which lasted just under 2 years after it ran out of money and essentially defaulted on the franchise, next up was East Coast, a public company that was doing quite well, under the Government was like "think we need more money again, lets franchise that out again", so step in Virgin Trains East Coast, who were actually only owned 10% of the operation, but Stagecoach wanted a nice popular (on the WCML) name. Either way it ended badly for them and they also messed up their maths and went insolvent, although they did claim a large issue was the Government not doing their part in upgrades to the network. Step in the current operator LNER just over 2 years into VTEC. The funnier part of that being despite VTEC advertising the everloving Christ out of the incoming Azumas, they in fact never operated one before going out of business.

Whilst I don't understand enough internally to figure out why its not financially viable long term for recent previous franchises, it does appear to be a case of the would-be franchisees themselves saying they can pay more than they will actually be able to afford, rather than the Government asking specifically for that much, although the Government seem to go for the highest bidder instead of doing their due diligence to prevent it happening to start with and seeing the many $$$$'s per month and getting slightly excited.

So I guess all in all, another success story with the OLR operating a former franchise, who'd have thought it! I really hope the Government do pay attention to these successes. I'm not in favour of them all being bought and brought into one big company British Rail style, they should still all be kept separate IMO, but Northern & LNER certainly go a long way to showing it's not as terrible of an idea as some people who are in power to a degree seem to think.

*I am presuming that is just a date no one at the DfT has remembered to update, given 2 month isn't long enough to hold an invite to tender and the resulting bids.

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The Poet Laureate of the UK, Simon Armitage wrote some lines in the New Statesman, a current affairs & political magazine.
He proceeded to dismantle Transpennine with his lines, for context he was born in Huddersfield, and lives near Marsden now, which is a station now famous for being one of the first to be cut when TPE need to make up time...
If even the Poet Laureate is aiming fire at you, you know you've messed up, will the Government pay attention and strip the franchise though?! (no, probably not I'd guess).

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[dol422]

Pretty accurate summary.

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It's finally happened! Transpennine Express has been stripped of its contract. The contract expires at the end of May, after which point the Operator of Last Resort (OLR).

Transpennine Express has run with First since 2004, and whilst there were definitely highs, such as the introduction of the Class 185's, it's really gone to the dogs lately. Obviously this isn't a quick fix, and the OLR will have to figure out how to get staff shortages under control, at least if TPE was accurate when they say that most cancellations were over that.

Hopefully the OLR will invest in new trains, and this time make them long enough, given TPE pulled a Northern and went "new traaaains" "big enough for capacity needs right?" "shut up that isn't important, look at the nice new trains!", although they did that to a lesser degree than Northern, which built trains with maybe 10 or 15 more seats than old ones (looking at you anything that replaced 3 carriage 144's)

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Oh no, double post. I am literally the worst!
Anywho, this weekend I was in Birmingham with the girlfriend, because we decided if we do that, we can be sad and watch Eurovision somewhere else. Literally that's the deal that happened.

However, we decided to get a random train down from Birmingham Moor Street, and we ended up at Stourbridge, and we both saw and took a ride on this absolute atrocity to the railway. The Class 139! It runs between Stourbridge Junction & Stourbridge Town, a journey of... literally 3 minutes. It was shuttling between those 2 places once every 10 minutes, it was very quaint, and even had a physical clock in each end of the unit so they could keep time. I thought the days of folding doors on British trains died with the Pacers, but no, a nice folding door here too! This was on the Saturday, at 2pm and there were a max of about 2-5 people on each run of the 4-5 runs i saw and 1 i was on there & back. It was a weird experience, but y'kno what, I'm glad I took the time to try these little things.

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it's one of those things on the railway that, I didn't have to do, but I'm happy I did.

[kamnet]

The Class 313, the oldest trains on National Rail, will be retired tomorrow. YouTube channel Jago Hazzard has a brief overview of their history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDb3cK4JXzk

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The Class 313, the oldest trains on National Rail, will be retired tomorrow. YouTube channel Jago Hazzard has a brief overview of their history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDb3cK4JXzk

I was going to go down today and see them for photos and number recording, but for some reason today the Thameslink network is basically non-existant through central London. I was aiming to get to Brighton, as i have a friend there to add on to seeing old trains to make it a bit more worth it

[Pilot]

The Class 313, the oldest trains on National Rail, will be retired tomorrow.

I was on the farewell tour for them that ran a few weeks ago, having spent the day prior chasing them around the South Coast.

In the nicest possible way, from a passenger perspective, they're absolutely awful. Their replacements will be a massive step up with Air Conditioning and on-board toilets.

Just a shame that, like with most stock withdrawals in the UK currently, they come without an actual replacement, but rather the rest of the fleet being worked harder and spread thinner.