Too small menu objects

[peter1138]

The original issue has been reopened and also https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10273 has been created.

[jfs]

An example of how it looks like and how it could be (GUI 2x)


To sum up: I think it would be good to set new default fonts. Ones that would fit well with any zoom level and that would not unnecessarily increase interface elements such as station labels.

The reason that specifically the Microsoft Himalaya font has so much bottom leading here, is because the font is designed for use with Tibetan language, which reaches much further below the baseline. If you had included some text in TIbetan writing in the sign then you wouldn't be saying the sign has "unnecessary whitespace".

[LaChupacabra]

The reason that specifically the Microsoft Himalaya font has so much bottom leading here, is because the font is designed for use with Tibetan language, which reaches much further below the baseline. If you had included some text in TIbetan writing in the sign then you wouldn't be saying the sign has "unnecessary whitespace".

Himalaya is probably the most extreme case, but these increased margins simply apply to most if not all fonts. Anyway, this problem wouldn't exist if the default font didn't need to be changed and if it was scalable with the rest of the interface. I know I can be boring and tiresome writing about this everywhere I can, but I really believe that no matter how much you do around it, without changing the default font, this problem will never be closed. I really don't understand why every new player must be forced to look for a solution to a problem that shouldn't even be there. Why any other games don't have the problem of unreadable fonts, but OTTD does?

[Eddi]

Why any other games don't have the problem of unreadable fonts, but OTTD does?

because, at its core, OTTD is still a 30 year old game that was programmed for 30 year old screens

[lostpawn]

I have read this thread but can somebody explain to me why rescalable interface size was introduced. The menu bar is way too small and when I adjust the interface size to 2x the menus are way too big. F.i. when I want to buy a train, the buy button is not on the screen. I have to rescale to bring it back. For me OTTD is, as things are now, not playable anymore. Any advice how to tamper with the configuration file, if that will help, is very welcome.

[Argus]

And here it is again. Most games can adjust to the screen size, Tycoon still falters in this.
This problem occurs more and more often, especially when there is a lot of information about the vehicle on the window or a very long list of possible cargos.

[Auge]

Hello

I don't understand the argumentation. If you don't want to scale the UI because it will be to big and not every UI element will be on screen don't do it. The only problem I see with scaling is the default ingame pixel image font (with its letters, digits and symbols), that doesn't scale. That will leave not only the text small as it would be when unscaled but also the UI-symbols are to small.

But even with a font that scales, the problem with the UI zoom, that lostpawn describes, would remain. If the buttons are not visible with a scale factor of two, the zoom factor is to high. So zooming only to 1.2 or 1.4 (or whatever) or not zooming at all is the solution. So what? I don't understand all the excitement. Yes, the feature is new and needs improvement. That's why I would like it to read serious error reports and suggestions for improvement here instead of only complaining.

Tschö, Auge

[lostpawn]

My problem is this. When the scale factor is 0 the menu buttons are too small. When I set the scale factor to 2 the menu buttons are okay, as they were before scaling was introduced, but then everything else is too large. So I don't set the scale factor and have to live with a ridiculous small menu bar and ditto buttons.

[peter1138]

My problem is this. When the scale factor is 0 the menu buttons are too small. When I set the scale factor to 2 the menu buttons are okay, as they were before scaling was introduced, but then everything else is too large. So I don't set the scale factor and have to live with a ridiculous small menu bar and ditto buttons.

Can you demonstrate what you mean, both with 12.2 and the interface scaling in 13.0-rc1?

[Argus]

Myslím, že se tady jedná spíš o problém, kdy některé grafiky dokáží zbytečně nafouknout například nabídku koupě vozu (okno depa) nebo kdy jsou příliš rozmáchlé popisy vozů i s historickými fakty, takže tlačítko "koupit" se ocitne dole mimo obrazovku.
I think I've seen this issue on Github before, but I can't find it now.

[Auge]

Hello

My problem is this. When the scale factor is 0 the menu buttons are too small.

This is comprehensible to me.

When I set the scale factor to 2 the menu buttons are okay, as they were before scaling was introduced, but then everything else is too large.

With the old scaling (doubling the UI size and doubling the font size) I had the problem, you decribe, on a full-HD-screen with a size of only 13.4 inches (diagonale). Everything was bigger but in certain cases I had to move windows to reach the buttons to do something. The new scaling system IMHO is (generally) much better. It offers the possibility to regulate the UI-size more finely granulated (quarter steps).

I compared the new scaling system (in JGRPP 0.50.0) with the old one (an orphaned installation of OpenTTD 1.9.3, same system as in 1.12.x) both with a to 200% scaled UI. Both on the same screen. In both cases it is possible to open windows with hidden UI-elements (because they are off screen). So I see no difference. The only thing I came across is the setting dependent inconsistent scaling of the new system.

When I set the scaling factor to 1.5 the UI will be displayed bigger but the default pixel font (I don't use another one) remains small as the scaling factor would be 1.0. When I scale the UI to 2.0, the font will also gets double sized and is easily readable but some of the windows are to big (but as I said, this was also an issue in the old scaling system). I don't know if this is an issue of JGRPP itself or one of the version 0.50.0 or if the problem is solved in OpenTTD meanwhile (JGRPP 0.50.0 is not the latest release).

From the UI-size-side a scaling factor of 1.5 is big enough for me. But because the font size is not scaled to 1.5 as the UI is, it is hard to read. The only two issues I found on Github, that are related to UI and font scaling (#10270 and #10292), do not concern the problem, I described. I will dig into it a bit more.

So I don't set the scale factor and have to live with a ridiculous small menu bar and ditto buttons.

Again, comprehensible.

Tschö, Auge

[LaChupacabra]

My problem is this. When the scale factor is 0 the menu buttons are too small. When I set the scale factor to 2 the menu buttons are okay, as they were before scaling was introduced, but then everything else is too large.

I don't think anyone has said it explicitly, so...
From version 13.0 (and from 50.0 JGRPP) it will (is) possible to scale the interface other than only 1x, 2x and 4x. So you will be able to use 1.25x, 1.5x or 1.75x magnification. Considering how this game is coded, this is a big and really good change.

The problem will probably stay the font, which will not scale with the rest of the interface. This means that even if you use a magnification of 1.75x, the font size will still be 1x. The reason is that fixing it would involve changing the font style or having to create a new one.

If nothing changes, you will still be able to change the font in the configuration file here: Documents/OpenTTD/openttd.cfg

The only two issues I found on Github, that are related to UI and font scaling (#10270 and #10292), do not concern the problem, I described. I will dig into it a bit more.

Two other, closer topics
Issue #10153: [Drawback]: Small font is unreadable at default size and most popular screen resolutions. Issue closed without being resolved.
Discussions #10279: Change of default fonts.

[PikkaBird]

If nothing changes, you will still be able to change the font in the configuration file here

You can also now change the fonts via the console, without having to restart the game to see the effect. Open the console with ~ and type "help font" to find out how.

[Auge]

Hello

The problem will probably stay the font, which will not scale with the rest of the interface. This means that even if you use a magnification of 1.75x, the font size will still be 1x.

That's what I suspected.

The reason is that fixing it would involve changing the font style or having to create a new one.

A new font. Hmm I was thinking about creating an OpenGFX-based font with Font Forge. A font that could basically provide graphically suitable characters for OpenTTD for all languages. But I haven't got anywhere with my first experiments in Font Forge.

This would be only the one half of the solution. What would remain, are the in the "float scaling factors" (or "non integer scaliung factors") also not scaled symbols and icons.

The only two issues I found on Github, that are related to UI and font scaling (#10270 and #10292), do not concern the problem, I described. I will dig into it a bit more.

Two other, closer topics
Issue #10153: [Drawback]: Small font is unreadable at default size and most popular screen resolutions. Issue closed without being resolved.
Discussions #10279: Change of default fonts.

Ahh, there "they" are.

Tschö, Auge

[lostpawn]

Peter1138 asked me: Can you demonstrate what you mean, both with 12.2 and the interface scaling in 13.0-rc1?

This is from the 12.2 version:

openttd 12.2.png

(330.33 KiB) Not downloaded yet

and this one is fron 13.0-rc1:

openttd 13.0 rc1.png

(452.57 KiB) Not downloaded yet

and 13.0-rc1 with scalefactor set to 2:

openttd 13.0-rc1 scalefactor set to 2.png

(122.29 KiB) Not downloaded yet

By the way, I use openttd-jgrpp-0.50.1-windows-win64 but I assume that that is irrelevant for this issue.

[peter1138]

Okay, this is just a leftover, from gui-scaling and font-scaling being rolled into one.

You can use the console command (option the console with ~ or ` depending on layout) "font":

"font medium 0"

will reset the medium font to its default automatic size. You can do the rest for the other font types too.

[lostpawn]

Thank you Peter. Very helpful.

[jfs]

A new font. Hmm I was thinking about creating an OpenGFX-based font with Font Forge. A font that could basically provide graphically suitable characters for OpenTTD for all languages. But I haven't got anywhere with my first experiments in Font Forge.

I think the sprite font in OpenGFX is already based on an existing open source sans-serif font.

Also keep in mind that "all languages" is quite big, if you actually mean all languages, including Arabic, Hebrew, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, because that's a huge amount of data.

[Auge]

Hello

I think the sprite font in OpenGFX is already based on an existing open source sans-serif font.

Can you provide more information or do you know whom to ask?

A new font. Hmm I was thinking about creating an OpenGFX-based font with Font Forge. A font that could basically provide graphically suitable characters for OpenTTD for all languages.

... keep in mind that "all languages" is quite big, if you actually mean all languages, including Arabic, Hebrew, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, because that's a huge amount of data.

Keep in mind, that this is a very raw idea. I am not able to provide all characters of all languages, so I would need help from others. I also know, that a font for all available languages could be a very big file. More or less complete fonts can exceed file sizes of 40 to 50 megabytes. Also a few languages would need more space for their characters than others. This would make it difficult to maintain a consistent TTD-like looking style. In the end such a font would be a one time download (at least per system). On the other hand I have no clue if such a big font would be a noticeable performance issue on the user systems.

Tschö, Auge

[LaChupacabra]

Also keep in mind that "all languages" is quite big, if you actually mean all languages, including Arabic, Hebrew, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, because that's a huge amount of data.

Chinese, Hebrew, Arabic, Cyrillic, and others don't require you to create a font because they already use a different one that is scalable. The very idea of creating thousands of characters from scratch, and only for the Chinese language, would be doomed to failure in advance.

I think the sprite font in OpenGFX is already based on an existing open source sans-serif font.

If these legendary fonts really exist (I've searched, matched, but couldn't find anything), they are not just pixel art, and they are open source, then what's the problem with just using them?