Evolving Manpowered Industry Replacement Set

Discuss, get help with, or post new graphics for TTDPatch and OpenTTD, using the NewGRF system, here. Graphics for plain TTD also acceptable here.

Moderator: Graphics Moderators

Post Reply
Wahazar
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1451
Joined: 18 Jan 2014 18:10

Evolving Manpowered Industry Replacement Set

Post by Wahazar »

I want to present here principles of EMIRS project.

Firstly, let me explain my motivations.
Roughly speaking, there are two approaches to the openttd industry processing:
  • FIRS-like (used also by some derivatives: Forked FIRS projects - FFIRS), where any input is consumed instantly and output is produced immediately as an result, similar to vanilla OpenTTD;
  • ECS-like, where input is stockpiled and gradually consumed resulting in steady stream of products, there are stockpile limits with delivery withhold hysteresis.
Of course above list is an oversimplification, because there are some industry sets located in between, such SPI (stockpiles but without limits, or AuZInd where some industries has stockpile while others doesn't) - but it is convenient to discuss contrasting cases.

In my opinion, each approach (FIRS-like or ECS-like) has pros and cons as well.

Upsides of FIRS and ECS types of economy:
  • FIRS-type: Even in case of complex economy (like XIS), there is easy and seamless fire-and-forget game-play, you get what you put, even if not all substrates are delivered;
  • ECS-type: challenging economy, realistic supply&demand chain, player need to take care on whole network instead of just launching a spinning reel;
Downsides of FIRS and ECS types of economy:
  • FIRS-type: Even in case of complex economy (like XIS), fun at the beginning but later rather boring fire-and-forget game-play, you get what you put, make food from packaging or other oddities;
  • ECS-type: fun at the beginning but later annoying unstable economy, requires lot of micromanagement, especially with finite mine resources - not suitable for multiplayer servers, havoc if freight cargodist enabled;
Objective of EMIRS project is to inherit upsides of FIRS and ECS economy types while avoiding downsides of before-mentioned.
It is hard task, because these are the same, but depending of player preferences :)

Jokes aside, primary objective is to make industry set well settled even before XIX century and playable for whole timespan.
Currently, most of industry sets are rather plain among time - just few new industries without huge impact at whole cargo flowchart (maybe expect of infamous recyclables :) .
Playing with early date start with modern industry is anticlimatic, especially when vehicles can't cope industry outputs.
It is also hard to achieve closed cargo loops for supplies, and workarounds like FIRS ports cause some unbalanced chains like Port-Fruit Plantation exploit.
Also medieval small industries, like smithy forge, looks later ridiculous when spammed by millions tons of steel monthly.

Therefore my proposal is as follows:
  • Early industry chains are rather simply, but produce very small quantities of output (or slightly more if manpower and other supplies are delivered)
  • Stockpiles and stockpile limits apply for early industries. Such industries also provide very small idle production.
  • XIX century industries are more complex and effective, and some vital chain nodes are without stockpile limits.
  • Modern industries are very effective, most of them with instant consumption/production feature, but at expense of complex cargo chain.
  • Blackhole industries, especially town ones (as house replacement), are always with stockpile limits and speed of stockpile consumption depend on city size.
Above approach should allow to enjoyable play if start date is before industrial revolution and also avoid problems with hijacking cargo by old obsolete industries. For example, if there is station which has both Smithy Forge near Bessemer Furnace in range and station label is close to Smithy Forge, without stockpile limits Smithy Forge would intercept all Iron, giving very low output instead. But with stockpile limit, it will be blocked soon and Bessemer will get its batch instead.
Similar situation with Grocery Shop vs Brewery. Stockpile limits for blackholes should allow to avoid permanent cargo capture.

Consecutively I will publish proposal of cargo chains below.
they are divided arbitrarily into 7 tiers (just for sake of clear view).

Disclaimer: no line of code was written by now, it is still just draft of the project.
Last edited by Wahazar on 03 Nov 2021 12:49, edited 1 time in total.
Formerly known as: McZapkie
Projects: Reproducible Map Generation patch, NewGRFs: Manpower industries, PolTrams, Polroad, 600mm narrow gauge, wired, ECS industry extension, V4 CEE train set, HotHut.
Another favorite games: freeciv longturn, OHOL/2HOL.
Wahazar
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1451
Joined: 18 Jan 2014 18:10

Re: Evolving Manpowered Industry Replacement Set

Post by Wahazar »

Preface - explanation of symbols:

Image

Blue icons depict construction location restrictions.
Many industries would spawn near special type of industry: Construction Site, which is blackhole for some cargo (for example tools and wood).
Construction Site will despawn after one year without any delivery, or immediately despawn if any other industry was spawned nearby.
It gives player a little control on where industry will spawn (either deliver cargo to keep Construction Site alive to attract some industry, or opposite, block spawning if new industry may obstruct plans for building railway etc).

A few words about manpower: despite of its name, direct manpower (delivering passengers to industry as a production booster) will be limited to some remote primary industries and its impact will be low (as just one of the few boosters required together for full production).
Secondary industries will use town registers instead (passengers delivered to the town are added to the town registry, manpower is decreasing registry).
Modern industry will use similar registry mechanism with fuel gas and electricity.
ELTR cargo was planned, together with fake tramway for electric power carriers, but due to limited cargo slots this idea was postponed.
Last edited by Wahazar on 30 Oct 2021 17:37, edited 3 times in total.
Wahazar
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1451
Joined: 18 Jan 2014 18:10

Re: Evolving Manpowered Industry Replacement Set

Post by Wahazar »

Tier 0

Image

Industry in this tier slowly make small amount of products (except of Logging Camp, where production depend on trees planted).
Stockpile size limits are applied.
Last edited by Wahazar on 30 Oct 2021 17:43, edited 2 times in total.
Wahazar
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1451
Joined: 18 Jan 2014 18:10

Re: Evolving Manpowered Industry Replacement Set

Post by Wahazar »

Tier 1

Image

First sea-related industries are introduced here. Most of them has stockpile limits except of Fishing Port (stockpile without capsize) and Trade Post (blackhole+slow production).
Last edited by Wahazar on 30 Oct 2021 17:47, edited 2 times in total.
Wahazar
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1451
Joined: 18 Jan 2014 18:10

Re: Evolving Manpowered Industry Replacement Set

Post by Wahazar »

Tier 2

Image

Beginning of metallurgy industry, Iron Works with stockpile limits, further Blast Furnace without limits (but still both substract required to be stockpilled).
First vehicle factory allows to boost agricultural industry.
Last edited by Wahazar on 30 Oct 2021 17:54, edited 2 times in total.
Wahazar
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1451
Joined: 18 Jan 2014 18:10

Re: Evolving Manpowered Industry Replacement Set

Post by Wahazar »

Tier 3

Image

Improved methods of steel production and some chemistry chains. Some industries introduced here would work better later if electricity is provided.
Last edited by Wahazar on 30 Oct 2021 17:57, edited 2 times in total.
Wahazar
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1451
Joined: 18 Jan 2014 18:10

Re: Evolving Manpowered Industry Replacement Set

Post by Wahazar »

Tier 4

Image

Improved basic industries, also electricity generation for town register.
Last edited by Wahazar on 30 Oct 2021 17:59, edited 2 times in total.
Wahazar
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1451
Joined: 18 Jan 2014 18:10

Re: Evolving Manpowered Industry Replacement Set

Post by Wahazar »

Tier 5

Image

Modern effective factories involving plastics industry, also nuclear power.
Last edited by Wahazar on 30 Oct 2021 18:04, edited 2 times in total.
Wahazar
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1451
Joined: 18 Jan 2014 18:10

Re: Evolving Manpowered Industry Replacement Set

Post by Wahazar »

Tier 6

Image

Some modern XX century industry and eco-friendly XXI century industry. No new cargo introduced here.
Last edited by Wahazar on 30 Oct 2021 18:06, edited 2 times in total.
Wahazar
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1451
Joined: 18 Jan 2014 18:10

Re: Evolving Manpowered Industry Replacement Set

Post by Wahazar »

Cargo reference table:

Image

Image

Image
Last edited by Wahazar on 03 Nov 2021 12:47, edited 2 times in total.
Wahazar
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1451
Joined: 18 Jan 2014 18:10

Re: Evolving Manpowered Industry Replacement Set

Post by Wahazar »

reserved:
current state of art.

63 cargoes, 133 industries planned (due to 128 industry per grf limit, ancient obsolete industries will be packed in optional add-on grf).

Tier-based flowcharts and cargo reference tables finished.

Edit: link for flowchart documentation source, created by Draw IO:
http://149.156.194.203/~mczapkie/Train/ ... nal.drawio
krohmalny
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 12
Joined: 05 Mar 2022 10:58
Contact:

Re: Evolving Manpowered Industry Replacement Set

Post by krohmalny »

Hello. What's the status of this GRF at the moment?
betaquarks.well
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 6
Joined: 02 Jan 2020 20:55
Location: Recife, PE. BR

Re: Evolving Manpowered Industry Replacement Set

Post by betaquarks.well »

Wonderful concept! Especially for the concept of Electrification and Green Ages. Congratulations!
Wahazar wrote: 29 Oct 2021 19:00 Edit: link for flowchart documentation source, created by Draw IO:
http://149.156.194.203/~mczapkie/Train/ ... nal.drawio
There is something wrong with this link.
MasterOktagon
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 40
Joined: 12 May 2020 15:17
Location: Germany

Re: Evolving Manpowered Industry Replacement Set

Post by MasterOktagon »

Geat Idea!

I have never drawn anything for a NewGRF but I made some sprites for a tavern
EMPI_Tier_1.png
EMPI_Tier_1.png (9.48 KiB) Viewed 2309 times
Until Next Time

MasterOktagon
Wahazar
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1451
Joined: 18 Jan 2014 18:10

Re: Evolving Manpowered Industry Replacement Set

Post by Wahazar »

betaquarks.well wrote: 29 May 2022 14:21 Wonderful concept! Especially for the concept of Electrification and Green Ages. Congratulations!
Wahazar wrote: 29 Oct 2021 19:00 Edit: link for flowchart documentation source, created by Draw IO:
http://149.156.194.203/~mczapkie/Train/ ... nal.drawio
There is something wrong with this link.
Probably you need to have DrawIO installed, to correctly open this link.

krohmalny, project is in concept stage only. I need to finish my other projects.
MasterOktagon, thanks for your input.
There is lot of drawings to do, especially for first eras, even if some FIRS drawings would be reused.
Tar kiln and logging camp are already done in my others grfs.
Palalet
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 8
Joined: 07 Feb 2019 09:32

Re: Evolving Manpowered Industry Replacement Set

Post by Palalet »

wow, this looks amazing, please do! :) I am waiting for new industry set like this for AGES.
How will it work with existing train sets?
Post Reply

Return to “Graphics Development”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests