Improved Town Industries

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2TallTyler
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Re: Improved Town Industries

Post by 2TallTyler »

Tropic industries are very not-done and should not have been released. It’s actually different enough from the ITI concept that I’m going to release it under a new name. Stay tuned for that sometime this summer or fall.
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Re: Improved Town Industries

Post by Argus »

Ok, thanks :)
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Re: Improved Town Industries

Post by 2TallTyler »

1.7.7 is out, adding a Korean translation by telk5093. :)
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Re: Improved Town Industries

Post by MagicBuzz »

Hello,

There is a bug (I think) with the OpenGFX Road Vehicles.

No truck can transport "waste".
I think the buk truck should, or the flatbed or goods truck... but none of them can transport waste.

I attach a savegame so you have all the configuration elements.
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Re: Improved Town Industries

Post by piratescooby »

Not a bug , there is no vehicles to transport waste, try using another vehicle set for example Timberwolfs UK road vehicles, viewtopic.php?t=74912
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Re: Improved Town Industries

Post by MagicBuzz »

So it's an OpenGFX+ bug then.

OpenGFX+ trains can transport waste, but not OpenGFX+ road vehicles... not logic.
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Re: Improved Town Industries

Post by 2TallTyler »

I'm not sure why Waste trucks aren't available. The cargo has the classes CC_BULK, CC_PIECE_GOODS, and CC_COVERED, so there should be a vehicle available.

Unrelated, I've released 1.7.8 with a Czech translation by adpro. Thanks!
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Re: Improved Town Industries

Post by adpro »

2TallTyler wrote: 13 Aug 2021 13:28 Unrelated, I've released 1.7.8 with a Czech translation by adpro. Thanks!
Thank you for the quick acceptance of the pull request.
adpro | NewGRF Military Items project
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Re: Improved Town Industries

Post by MagicBuzz »

Hello,

I'm enjoying this GRF and I have a few suggestions.

All are related with a OpenTTD feature that I actually think is a bug : after a few years there are way too much industries on the map and it's a complete mess, whatever the industry density that was set at map generation time.

First suggestion is about industries closure : is it possible to add some parameter to disallow industries from closing ?
=> This GRF aims to build multiple small lines between industries and towns. After a while, many industries and connected and with about 5 industries closing each month, it's not even possible to rebuild lines. A parameter to forbid closures for None/Raw/Processing/All industries would be great.

Second suggestion is about "multiple industries per town" option : having multiple farms, mines etc. for a single town is quite normal. But having multiple identical processing industries in the same town is much rare. May you could add a parameter to keep only one processing of each type per town ?

Third, still about processing industries : I like having nice network with big hubs beside processing industries. So, as many other players I guess, I never build 1-1 industries layout between raw and processing industries : I prefer to connect one single processing industry to multiple raw industries. As IRL most of the time processing industries are around larger cities rather than in villages. A parameter that build processing industries only near towns with city flag would do the job well, I guess.

At last, fourth parameter would set a limit of industries count for each town (may differ between towns and cities?) to avoid being stuck with hundred of industries on a small map.

I think all of this could be done with a GS, but IMO GS would be kept for balancing other game mechanics like goals and so on.
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Re: Improved Town Industries

Post by 2TallTyler »

Thanks for the suggestions. The issue of too many industries probably isn't an OpenTTD bug, but an issue with primary industries which produce two cargos (Iron Ore and Passengers, for example) being unlikely to close, so new industries opening outweighs old ones closing.

This was my first industry NewGRF and I now disagree with many of the decisions I made, particularly how it handles workers as Passengers. My newer industry sets like Lumberjack Industries are much more interesting, I think, but I don't want to reimagine this industry set and deal with complaints from people who like it the way it is. I don't play it anymore and the code needs a substantial refactoring to use functions instead of a long switch chains, so I'm not maintaining it besides accepting PRs for translations and improvements created by others.
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Re: Improved Town Industries

Post by kamnet »

You should publish Improved Improved Town Industries Refurbishment Set 2. :)
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Re: Improved Town Industries

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Hello 2TallTyler,

I'm glad to see you released a new version of this set :)

I have a small question : when I started my new game, I got a message telling there were not suitable place for food processing plant, and most other secondary industries.

After 17 years, there is still no new industry at all. Is that normal? Must I fund new secondary industries (like caribbean industries set)? Or may some should spawn after cities growth enough?

Right now I have a town with 1400 inhabitants and some villages arround (biggest is about 950).
Game script makes the growth very slow as I lack food, but I can't produce any as there is not food processing plant...

You'll find attached a savegame (using JGR patch pack version 0.47.3 and snail's french train set).
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Re: Improved Town Industries

Post by MagicBuzz »

Oh, and I'm not sure, but I think I found a small bug and/or compatibility issue with ITL.

Regarding ITL documentation, houses accept "wood" until 1850.

Right now, I'm at 1899 and some city stations accepts "logs" (produced by forests, so I guess it replaces "wood") because some houses still accepts "logs".
See attached picture (from the savegame of my previous post).
Capture d’écran 2022-06-21 005022.png
Capture d’écran 2022-06-21 005022.png (86.34 KiB) Viewed 714 times
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Re: Improved Town Industries

Post by Quast65 »

Maybe its for the fireplace...

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Re: Improved Town Industries

Post by MagicBuzz »

Ok, I finally took a look directly in the NML source code and I think I found my answer.

As I understand, Food Processing Indistries at generated :
- at map generation time only
- only near cities
- only if the cities doesn't have already a secondary industry
- (and some other restrictions)

As my small map has only 1 city and there is already a Sawmill in... Then I can't get Food Processing Instrustry on my map (or I should destroy the Sawmill).

Nevermind, I created a new map with many cities and now I have a Food Processing Plant :mrgreen:
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Re: Improved Town Industries

Post by MagicBuzz »

Hum, I still have very strange behaviours...

How city acceptance is handled ?

I built some stations in my towns, and some accepts food while other doesn't.
All of them accept building materials. Most if them accept goods.
When I check each house in the catchement area of my stations :
- none accepts food
- none accepts goods
- none accepts building materials

Is it really compatible with ITL ?

How can I determine where to build a station as acceptance doesn't seem to be linked with houses acceptance ?
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Re: Improved Town Industries

Post by pineapple »

I'm experiencing a significant issue when trying to play using this industry set: It is apparently impossible to fund any new industries. I get a "site unsuitable" error no matter what industry I try to fund, no matter where I try to fund it. This especially presents a problem when there is no incinerator or recycling plant near a town, and so there is no effective way to transport waste away from it.

Have I missed something, or is this a bug?

I'm running the openttd-jgrpp-0.47.3 patch, my NewGRFs are Improved Town Industries 2.0 and ITL Houses 2.1, and I'm using version 81 of the Renewed Village Growth script.
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Re: Improved Town Industries

Post by MagicBuzz »

pineapple wrote: 24 Jun 2022 14:06 I'm experiencing a significant issue when trying to play using this industry set: It is apparently impossible to fund any new industries. I get a "site unsuitable" error no matter what industry I try to fund, no matter where I try to fund it. This especially presents a problem when there is no incinerator or recycling plant near a town, and so there is no effective way to transport waste away from it.
Yes, I also had the problem and it's an intended design limitation.
Secondary industries can be built only near cities (not town) and a city can't have more than one secondary industry.

This make the game not spawing secondary industries everywhere as the time passes, but it has the backdraw of making small maps unplayable as you don't have enough cities to build each secondary industry type.

I already asked the author to add an advise message about this design limitation, as we generaly find the problem after a few hours of game and it's quite frustrating to create a new game because of this...
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Re: Improved Town Industries

Post by 2TallTyler »

Thanks all for the feedback and reports. I've been busy with real life lately and haven't been as proactive with documentation as I probably should. :oops:

Industry placement rules are as follows:
  • Primary industries spawn only in towns, and are generated in "regions" if the parameter for this is set. They can be funded outside their set region, but must still be near a town (not a city) and may also have elevation requirements. Farms cannot be within 30 tiles of another Farm, to prevent field overlap.
  • Secondary industries can only appear in Cities, within about 15 tiles of the furthest houses from the center. With the exception of Banks and Incinerators, only one may appear in each city — to avoid cheesing the production mechanic with one big production city. Banks replace houses and must be facing a road in a city, and Incinerators must be at least 100 tiles from other Incinerators.
This of course means that you must have enough cities to support one of each secondary industry type. It's odd that you don't find the bug early in a game, because in vanilla OpenTTD I get a "No suitable location exists for [industry type]..." error immediately upon generating a map.

In any case, I'll add a more descriptive error message when funding fails which explains the rules.
MagicBuzz wrote: 22 Jun 2022 07:27 How city acceptance is handled ?

I built some stations in my towns, and some accepts food while other doesn't.
All of them accept building materials. Most if them accept goods.
It's not possible for NewGRFs to break station detection of acceptance within their catchment area, so if the station says it accepts something it should work. The actual cargo acceptance in ITL is a General Store which is present in every town. In original TTD graphics it looks like a general store, while OpenGFX draws it as a regular house...so if you can't see it immediately you may need to explore with the station to find the catchment you need. :?
MagicBuzz wrote: 20 Jun 2022 22:51 Right now, I'm at 1899 and some city stations accepts "logs" (produced by forests, so I guess it replaces "wood")
Yes, at some point I started using "Logs" instead of "Wood" to describe what forests produce, to distinguish it from Lumber (which along with Timber have slightly different meanings between EN-GB and EN-US languages). It's otherwise the same cargo.
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Re: Improved Town Industries

Post by pineapple »

2TallTyler wrote: 24 Jun 2022 20:16 With the exception of Banks and Incinerators, only one may appear in each city — to avoid cheesing the production mechanic with one big production city. Banks replace houses and must be facing a road in a city, and Incinerators must be at least 100 tiles from other Incinerators.
I did get cities on my map with both an incinerator and another industry nearby, but I think this does not apply when funding a new incinerator. I tried funding incinerators near cities, but I still got "site unsuitable" errors. Which, of course, can make transporting waste out of towns and cities to grow them quite tricky if no waste-accepting industry spawned nearby.

I'd like to suggest at least making it a configurable option whether or not the same map generation industry limitations should apply at all when funding industries, if that's feasible. I do see the value in such a limitation, and maybe a middle ground would be nice (only one industry will generate, but up to two or three can be funded, perhaps?), but I'd very much prefer to self-enforce my own rules about funding industries than to be quite so shackled by the whims of initial map generation.

Also, may I make one other request for a possible future version, in case you make any updates? I think it would be very nice if the industries set still included mail.
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