Captain Rand wrote: ↑20 Feb 2021 11:18
andythenorth wrote: ↑20 Feb 2021 08:35
We're not going to remove the ability to create 'very flat' or 'flat' maps...
Glad to hear it.
So what's all the fuss about?
1. Set terrain type will not be related to the name.
2. The height of the terrain is now closely related to the height of the snow, which causes a whole series of misunderstandings:
2.1. The actual change in terrain type here is by changing snow height. Change the terrain type setting itself doesn't change much or even nothing - where is the point and the logic? This solution ignores the current splited settings and makes it almost useless. This leads to such nonsense...
This problem can be solved by linking the terrain types with the available terrain (and snow) altitude range, which should be different for each type of terrain.
This doesn't, however, solve another problems...
2.2. Since the height of the snow line limits the height of the terrain, change only the height of the ground changes nothing. You can set the terrain height to 200, but if you don't raise the snow height, it won't change anything. To get high mountains you also need to raise the snow height - this in turn makes it impossible to get high snow covered mountains in the random map generator, which you could easily get in 1.10.3
- [+] Spoiler
- Generating such random snowy maps is not possible in 1.11.0-beta1
2.3. In order to obtain relatively flat random maps (very flat will not be available anymore), the snow level must be as low as possible. This can cause problems with the creating of farms. It is also impossible to obtain flat maps without snow. This can only be done by loading a previously prepared map.
3. This patch is based on a very restrictive premise from the Middle Ages of this game that forests should only be on mountain tops. This was right in the past when it was not possible to change the height of the terrain or even change the type of terrain. Today, when you can create very high mountains, sticking to this assumption leads to another nonsense of forests generated only on the very tops of these mountains.
- [+] Spoiler
4. This patch does not fix the forest problem. Information about the error and the inability to generate forests or farms will still appear if the player chooses a setting other than the default.
5. The problem of forests could and can be solved efficiently, without any restrictions and without causing incomprehensible settings effects.
6. The worst in this change is the way of solving the problems: by introducing nonsensical restrictions and without respecting other styles of play than one's own, calling those simply silly.
Michi_cc wrote: ↑20 Feb 2021 17:42
Those differences have been carried over to OTTD, even if the terragenesis terrain generator was always iffy in regards to the map differences. The inclusion of more height levels threw it totally out of wack. The recent change simply restores some of the climate differences present in the original game.
The question is whether the right way is to create further restrictions and remove the various possibilities that have been in this game for the greater period of its existence?
Why should the player not be able to easily recreate areas in a different part of the world than just Western Canada?
Also look at how many problems this change causes. Problems that were not there before.
I think this project can have very nice possibilities and it is really interesting. I would like to use here a few : and ), even D, but they are in temporary quarantine...
However, it does not solve the problems created by this patch, but only changes the layout of settings, which, as you can see, gives very strange results - this problem was not there before.
TrueBrain wrote: ↑19 Feb 2021 10:46
please make sure you are using default settings. You say you do, but your image shows you are not
In 1.11 the default snowline height changed to 10 (this was part of the same change as changing the terrain generator). This will fix a lot of weirdness going on in the default (!) map generation.
Oops ... It is my mistake. I'm sorry. I did tests on several versions at the same time and had to transfer the default settings from an earlier version. Sorry again.
Changing the default snow height settings is indeed a good move - it doesn't limit anything, it helps in the case of forests, and in my opinion, even the landscape looks more interesting. However, this does not change the fact that this patch doesn't eliminate all problem and if someone selects a setting other than the default, an error will still appear, either for forests or farms.