I wonder how hard that would be to code. No sarcasm intended here. Is it really possible to code a button for planes to turn around, but only on ground ?Eddi wrote:(like, letting them turn around)
JGR's Patch Pack
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Re: JGR's Patch Pack
Re: JGR's Patch Pack
Why don't you get it; what's wrong with adding it? Point to note: You couldn't turn trams around until some time after I complained. The guys who coded trams didn't want to add it. With any new feature in OpenTTD, there's always this resistance against making it fit the game. I can understand the feeling, but I'm fed up with it!Eddi wrote:while that is a solution to the deadlock problem, it is not a good solution.eekee wrote:vehicle will drive to the front of the station through the vehicles in front
the thing is, with both trains and roadvehicles, the player has methods of influencing the vehicles (like, letting them turn around), that you don't get with planes, that's why it's more important to put pressure on the designers to avoid such deadlocks.
Separately, the bug with station names being clickable despite being hidden affects anything behind the station name, not just town names. In the same save as before, try clicking the lower half of the depot behind Barranca Heights, or part of the water supply behind Barranca East.
Extreme network builder. screenshot thread
Re: JGR's Patch Pack
... Was a bug in master that's now fixed.eekee wrote:Separately, the bug with station names being clickable despite being hidden...
He's like, some kind of OpenTTD developer.
Re: JGR's Patch Pack
Glad it's fixed!peter1138 wrote:... Was a bug in master that's now fixed.eekee wrote:Separately, the bug with station names being clickable despite being hidden...
Extreme network builder. screenshot thread
Re: JGR's Patch Pack
There is a difference between a thing that is technically possible, but deliberately disabled, and something technically completely new that has to be developed first.eekee wrote:Point to note: You couldn't turn trams around until some time after I complained. The guys who coded trams didn't want to add it. With any new feature in OpenTTD, there's always this resistance against making it fit the game.
Re: JGR's Patch Pack
If it had been up to me, it would've been a parameter. Just like 90 degree curves, I think they are completely unrealistic as you would never see any tram doing that IRL, but are still useful for a few gameplay purposes.eekee wrote:Point to note: You couldn't turn trams around until some time after I complained. The guys who coded trams didn't want to add it. With any new feature in OpenTTD, there's always this resistance against making it fit the game. I can understand the feeling, but I'm fed up with it!
Re: JGR's Patch Pack
You mean the 90 degree train option? Ever been to Chicago? Ever heard the noise as the twisted-up axles sort themselves out mid-bend? Doesn't seem to happen so much on the tracks on the outside of the curves, but on the inside curves it's feaking loud! Still, in TTD it's useful to turn it off because 90 degree turns appear as unintended consequences of junction design.acs121 wrote:If it had been up to me, it would've been a parameter. Just like 90 degree curves, I think they are completely unrealistic as you would never see any tram doing that IRL, but are still useful for a few gameplay purposes.eekee wrote:Point to note: You couldn't turn trams around until some time after I complained. The guys who coded trams didn't want to add it. With any new feature in OpenTTD, there's always this resistance against making it fit the game. I can understand the feeling, but I'm fed up with it!
Extreme network builder. screenshot thread
Re: JGR's Patch Pack
In real life if things go completely pear shaped you could drive the tram in the opposite direction on the same physical track and/or use a crossover onto the track heading in the opposite direction, which isn't an option in OpenTTD.acs121 wrote:If it had been up to me, it would've been a parameter. Just like 90 degree curves, I think they are completely unrealistic as you would never see any tram doing that IRL, but are still useful for a few gameplay purposes.eekee wrote:Point to note: You couldn't turn trams around until some time after I complained. The guys who coded trams didn't want to add it. With any new feature in OpenTTD, there's always this resistance against making it fit the game. I can understand the feeling, but I'm fed up with it!
Some types of in-game road vehicle jam/deadlock are almost impossible to recover without turning vehicles around.
That has also been merged into my branch, so it'll be in the next release.peter1138 wrote:... Was a bug in master that's now fixed.eekee wrote:Separately, the bug with station names being clickable despite being hidden...
Having aircraft able to turn around at arbitrary points is likely to make it more difficult to design a fully correct and sensible movement state machine.acs121 wrote:I wonder how hard that would be to code. No sarcasm intended here. Is it really possible to code a button for planes to turn around, but only on ground ?Eddi wrote:(like, letting them turn around)
In game overtaking doesn't work for articulated vehicles, which is a slight snag.acs121 wrote:Road vehicles are allowed to take over each other IRL just as in OpenTTD because we consider you have great visibility and speed (unless you're taking over a snail).
It's also rather too conservative in the case of one-way roads, which is a whole extra can of worms.
I have been thinking about this and the UI implications are not really that straightforward.McZapkie wrote:I would like to remind suggestion about possibility of cloning/using template consist of expired vehicles, in case of "use remain vehicles" button is active.
The use vehicles in depot and keep remainders toggles can only be used after the template has been created.
Normal users are likely to be confused if they create and apply a template which can't actually be constructed, and are not made aware of that fact.
I don't really want to add yet another setting.
So allowing creation of the template, but clearly warning and/or requiring user confirmation would seem plausible.
Confirmation dialogs are a bit problematic and introduce unpleasant lifetime/raciness issues at clone time.
A prominent warning message on the template would then seem the most practical.
Ex TTDPatch Coder
Patch Pack, Github
Patch Pack, Github
Re: JGR's Patch Pack
Well, I thought about that too... I think it would be better if planes did just like trains do with the setting for them to automatically turn around when blocked at a signal for a certain time.JGR wrote:Having aircraft able to turn around at arbitrary points is likely to make it more difficult to design a fully correct and sensible movement state machine.acs121 wrote:I wonder how hard that would be to code. No sarcasm intended here. Is it really possible to code a button for planes to turn around, but only on ground ?Eddi wrote:(like, letting them turn around)
It's normal it doesn't work for articulated vehicles. IRL this kind of thing is quite dangerous with articulated buses, and it's infinitely dangerous with semi-trailer and trailer trucks. Take a look a few seconds at MAN TGX trucks as an example.JGR wrote:In game overtaking doesn't work for articulated vehicles, which is a slight snag.acs121 wrote:Road vehicles are allowed to take over each other IRL just as in OpenTTD because we consider you have great visibility and speed (unless you're taking over a snail).
It's also rather too conservative in the case of one-way roads, which is a whole extra can of worms.
Re: JGR's Patch Pack
Well, it is a valid point.JGR wrote: The use vehicles in depot and keep remainders toggles can only be used after the template has been created.
But there are two Copy buttons, one in main window, one in window which pop out when Edit button was clicked,
in such case "use remain." button already exists.
Formerly known as: McZapkie
Projects: Reproducible Map Generation patch, NewGRFs: Manpower industries, PolTrams, Polroad, 600mm narrow gauge, wired, ECS industry extension, V4 CEE train set, HotHut.
Another favorite games: freeciv longturn, OHOL/2HOL.
Projects: Reproducible Map Generation patch, NewGRFs: Manpower industries, PolTrams, Polroad, 600mm narrow gauge, wired, ECS industry extension, V4 CEE train set, HotHut.
Another favorite games: freeciv longturn, OHOL/2HOL.
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Re: JGR's Patch Pack
I am truck driver IRL and I overtake other vehicles all the time. Tractors, cars other trucks. If you're running empty you have the same acceleration as a car. You just need a bit more road to do it with.acs121 wrote:It's normal it doesn't work for articulated vehicles. IRL this kind of thing is quite dangerous with articulated buses, and it's infinitely dangerous with semi-trailer and trailer trucks. Take a look a few seconds at MAN TGX trucks as an example.
Re: JGR's Patch Pack
To me, it depends on which truck you have. Common trucks, such as the Renault D, which don't have a trailer, can overtake easily most vehicles. But if you overtake other vehicles while your truck is empty, that may be less risky.Diesel Power wrote:I am truck driver IRL and I overtake other vehicles all the time. Tractors, cars other trucks. If you're running empty you have the same acceleration as a car. You just need a bit more road to do it with.acs121 wrote:It's normal it doesn't work for articulated vehicles. IRL this kind of thing is quite dangerous with articulated buses, and it's infinitely dangerous with semi-trailer and trailer trucks. Take a look a few seconds at MAN TGX trucks as an example.
Also, in OpenTTD, this problem with articulated trucks is almost never encountered as the base vehicles are based off British vehicles. Generally, trucks in Europe are shorter, and they are often trailer-less (as most of them are delivery trucks, garbage trucks, etc) than North American ones. Of course, there's no such thing as long-distance trucks in the base vehicle set, while there are semi-trailers in Europe IRL.
Re: JGR's Patch Pack
Hello
That led to a (not so nice) joke about an overtaking maneuvre (lorry overtaking another lorry) on the A7, starting shortly behind the border to Denmark (north of Germany) that succeedes near the Autobahnkreuz Frankfurt am Main (after nearly 650km) causing emergency supply actions with helicopters for the stucked behind car drivers to serve them with meal, drinking and blankets against the cold.
Tschö, Auge
I expect you to never drove on a German Autobahn. Lorries with trailers and semi trailers overtaking each other with a speed difference of (in best case) only 2kph are common on the Autobahn.acs121 wrote:It's normal it doesn't work for articulated vehicles. IRL this kind of thing is quite dangerous with articulated buses, and it's infinitely dangerous with semi-trailer and trailer trucks. Take a look a few seconds at MAN TGX trucks as an example.
That led to a (not so nice) joke about an overtaking maneuvre (lorry overtaking another lorry) on the A7, starting shortly behind the border to Denmark (north of Germany) that succeedes near the Autobahnkreuz Frankfurt am Main (after nearly 650km) causing emergency supply actions with helicopters for the stucked behind car drivers to serve them with meal, drinking and blankets against the cold.
Tschö, Auge
Re: JGR's Patch Pack
Auge wrote:That led to a (not so nice very funny) joke about an overtaking maneuvre (lorry overtaking another lorry) on the A7, starting shortly behind the border to Denmark (north of Germany) that succeedes near the Autobahnkreuz Frankfurt am Main (after nearly 650km) causing emergency supply actions with helicopters for the stucked behind car drivers to serve them with meal, drinking and blankets against the cold.
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Re: JGR's Patch Pack
The plane turns around and... then what? Drive onto the wrong end of the landing strip where another plane might already be waiting? Or even on the way down and then you have not just one but two planes crash?acs121 wrote:Well, I thought about that too... I think it would be better if planes did just like trains do with the setting for them to automatically turn around when blocked at a signal for a certain time.JGR wrote:Having aircraft able to turn around at arbitrary points is likely to make it more difficult to design a fully correct and sensible movement state machine.acs121 wrote:
I wonder how hard that would be to code. No sarcasm intended here. Is it really possible to code a button for planes to turn around, but only on ground ?
I see two ways out, one is to carefully design rules that can path aircraft on ground such that they never deadlock, the other is to detect deadlocks in airports and if they happen then teleport all the aircraft to a hangar.
Yesterday I put some ideas for modular airports on the wiki, but if you want to discuss that another thread is probably better.
Re: JGR's Patch Pack
I did. But it's not because it's common that it's totally safe. The example about the A7 is one amongst others. In France, where I live, truck length (with their trailer) is limited to 18.75m, while in Germany, truck length (with their trailer too) is limited to 25m. And I did see a few 25m trucks on the Autobahn. It's not the fact that they run on the Autobahn that is dangerous. Just like 18m trucks, the thing is that some overtake whileAuge wrote:Hello
I expect you to never drove on a German Autobahn. Lorries with trailers and semi trailers overtaking each other with a speed difference of (in best case) only 2kph are common on the Autobahn.acs121 wrote:It's normal it doesn't work for articulated vehicles. IRL this kind of thing is quite dangerous with articulated buses, and it's infinitely dangerous with semi-trailer and trailer trucks. Take a look a few seconds at MAN TGX trucks as an example.
That led to a (not so nice) joke about an overtaking maneuvre (lorry overtaking another lorry) on the A7, starting shortly behind the border to Denmark (north of Germany) that succeedes near the Autobahnkreuz Frankfurt am Main (after nearly 650km) causing emergency supply actions with helicopters for the stucked behind car drivers to serve them with meal, drinking and blankets against the cold.
Tschö, Auge
What I meant is that planes should turn at specific points, and not arbitrary ones. I admit I may not have been very clear...jfs wrote:The plane turns around and... then what? Drive onto the wrong end of the landing strip where another plane might already be waiting? Or even on the way down and then you have not just one but two planes crash?acs121 wrote:Well, I thought about that too... I think it would be better if planes did just like trains do with the setting for them to automatically turn around when blocked at a signal for a certain time.JGR wrote: Having aircraft able to turn around at arbitrary points is likely to make it more difficult to design a fully correct and sensible movement state machine.
I see two ways out, one is to carefully design rules that can path aircraft on ground such that they never deadlock, the other is to detect deadlocks in airports and if they happen then teleport all the aircraft to a hangar.
Yesterday I put some ideas for modular airports on the wiki, but if you want to discuss that another thread is probably better.
Re: JGR's Patch Pack
Hello
To come back to OpenTTD; as far as I understand, it is a technical limitation, that articulated street vehicles are not able to overtake. The original games (TT, TTD) didn't know articulated vehicles. The situation on the streets of the real world is IMHO not a good reasoning for this game play limitation.
Tschö, Auge
As you might know, both countries are member states of the EU. In Germany the length of a Lorry with a trailer is limited to 18.75m as in France (and most likely all other EU-countries), and not to 25m. The lenght of an articulated lorry is limited to 16.50m.acs121 wrote:I did. But it's not because it's common that it's totally safe. The example about the A7 is one amongst others. In France, where I live, truck length (with their trailer) is limited to 18.75m, while in Germany, truck length (with their trailer too) is limited to 25m.
... while whatever. You said, that in reality a lorry overtaking another lorry is dangerous, I said, a lorry overtaking another lorry is common on German Autobahn (independent from the associated dangers). At no point I said, that it is in itself dangerous, to have lorries driving on the Autobahn.acs121 wrote:It's not the fact that they run on the Autobahn that is dangerous. Just like 18m trucks, the thing is that some overtake while
To come back to OpenTTD; as far as I understand, it is a technical limitation, that articulated street vehicles are not able to overtake. The original games (TT, TTD) didn't know articulated vehicles. The situation on the streets of the real world is IMHO not a good reasoning for this game play limitation.
Tschö, Auge
Re: JGR's Patch Pack
25m trucks are not a pure german invention, but they are still experimental and only allowed on certain stretches of road. iirc currently mostly in the north (crossing to denmark)
if you want to see really huge articulated trucks, there are "road trains" in places like australia.
if you want to see really huge articulated trucks, there are "road trains" in places like australia.
Re: JGR's Patch Pack
Then I don't know what to say about this Wikipedia page which says Germany does allow trucks with trailers with a total length of 25m : clicky meAuge wrote:Hello
As you might know, both countries are member states of the EU. In Germany the length of a Lorry with a trailer is limited to 18.75m as in France (and most likely all other EU-countries), and not to 25m. The lenght of an articulated lorry is limited to 16.50m.acs121 wrote:I did. But it's not because it's common that it's totally safe. The example about the A7 is one amongst others. In France, where I live, truck length (with their trailer) is limited to 18.75m, while in Germany, truck length (with their trailer too) is limited to 25m.
... while whatever. You said, that in reality a lorry overtaking another lorry is dangerous, I said, a lorry overtaking another lorry is common on German Autobahn (independent from the associated dangers). At no point I said, that it is in itself dangerous, to have lorries driving on the Autobahn.acs121 wrote:It's not the fact that they run on the Autobahn that is dangerous. Just like 18m trucks, the thing is that some overtake while
To come back to OpenTTD; as far as I understand, it is a technical limitation, that articulated street vehicles are not able to overtake. The original games (TT, TTD) didn't know articulated vehicles. The situation on the streets of the real world is IMHO not a good reasoning for this game play limitation.
Tschö, Auge
Also, dammit, I forgot to write the end of my sentence.
Problem is, I even forgot what I wanted to write. Ugh...
To come back to OpenTTD too : I think it should be done just like it is being done with 90° curves. It should be a parameter.
Re: JGR's Patch Pack
It's not case of adding a parameter. It's a case of actually adding the code for these vehicles to be able to overtake. It's not disabled, it's simply not there.
He's like, some kind of OpenTTD developer.
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