train length question
Moderator: OpenTTD Developers
train length question
what is your favourite train length in the game??
i use the standard settings so i can make a max train of 7 tiles
but i like to have 2 engines for better acceleration and faster going to max speed
so my question
would i be better off instead having a 7 tile train with 2 engines to split it into 2 train of 3,5 tiles length??
the 3,5 length train with 1 engine will it accelerate as fast at the 2 engine 7 tile train??
while i will have more trains in the game the will be smaller
so which way to go??
7 tile train or 3,5 tile train??
i use the standard settings so i can make a max train of 7 tiles
but i like to have 2 engines for better acceleration and faster going to max speed
so my question
would i be better off instead having a 7 tile train with 2 engines to split it into 2 train of 3,5 tiles length??
the 3,5 length train with 1 engine will it accelerate as fast at the 2 engine 7 tile train??
while i will have more trains in the game the will be smaller
so which way to go??
7 tile train or 3,5 tile train??
Re: train length question
So, all "will it go faster" is a question of power. A single locomotive, such the MTAB Iore from 2cc TrainsInNML, can easily pull a train of 600 tonnes, because it provides 14,000 hp IIRC.
My preferred length is 5-7 for mainlines and 3 for urban or local lines, sometimes 2 for express urban transit using small engines (e.g 1 tile units like the SM'90 from the Dutch Trainset).
My preferred length is 5-7 for mainlines and 3 for urban or local lines, sometimes 2 for express urban transit using small engines (e.g 1 tile units like the SM'90 from the Dutch Trainset).
Re: train length question
the question is not going faster since they will be using the same engineacs121 wrote:So, all "will it go faster" is a question of power. A single locomotive, such the MTAB Iore from 2cc TrainsInNML, can easily pull a train of 600 tonnes, because it provides 14,000 hp IIRC.
My preferred length is 5-7 for mainlines and 3 for urban or local lines, sometimes 2 for express urban transit using small engines (e.g 1 tile units like the SM'90 from the Dutch Trainset).
the question was will they accelerate the same?/ or one fo them will accelerate faster from the other
i like to get the max speed as fast as possible
and as the game goes on it seems the 2 engine for a 7 tile train to do the trick
Re: train length question
Hold on. Which engine are you using, what is it's max speed, power and tractive effort ?
(speed in kph, power in hp and TE in kgf)
(speed in kph, power in hp and TE in kgf)
-
- Tycoon
- Posts: 5948
- Joined: 27 Apr 2005 07:09
- Contact:
Re: train length question
In case "realistic acceleration" is enabled in game, both trains should get the same acceleration, since F = m * a. In case the short train´s weight is half the weight of the long train.ANIKHTOS wrote: the 3,5 length train with 1 engine will it accelerate as fast at the 2 engine 7 tile train??
No fancy math required.
HTH
Michael
Re: train length question
michael blunck wrote:In case "realistic acceleration" is enabled in game, both trains should get the same acceleration, since F = m * a. In case the short train´s weight is half the weight of the long train.ANIKHTOS wrote: the 3,5 length train with 1 engine will it accelerate as fast at the 2 engine 7 tile train??
No fancy math required.
HTH
Michael
well there is real life and then there is game mechanics
those 2 are not the same
while in real life the answer would be yes they would accelerate the same
the question is how the game handles them
so with realistic acceleration the answer is yes
with not realistic acceleration?
Re: train length question
acs121 wrote:Hold on. Which engine are you using, what is it's max speed, power and tractive effort ?
(speed in kph, power in hp and TE in kgf)
the fastest engine available at the time
even my vacuum trains have 2 engines
-
- Tycoon
- Posts: 5948
- Joined: 27 Apr 2005 07:09
- Contact:
Re: train length question
We´re talking about "game mechanics", o/c.ANIKHTOS wrote: well there is real life and then there is game mechanics
Game settings -> Vehicles -> Physics -> Train acceleration modelANIKHTOS wrote: the question is how the game handles them
so with realistic acceleration the answer is yes
with not realistic acceleration?
"The original model penalizes slopes equally for all vehicles."
How this is done in detail, I have no idea. You´d have to run experiments, or might take a look into the code.
regards
Michael
Re: train length question
This doesn't tell me which locomotive you are using. Is it a default vehicle ? Because the SH'40 and even the AsiaStar aren't that good at hauling freight. However, the X2001 and Lev1/2/3s are perfect for freight hauling.ANIKHTOS wrote:acs121 wrote:Hold on. Which engine are you using, what is it's max speed, power and tractive effort ?
(speed in kph, power in hp and TE in kgf)
the fastest engine available at the time
even my vacuum trains have 2 engines
You can also get into the Arctic / Tropical climate. They have much, much more powerful diesels there.
Note that generally if you use any NewGRF vehicle set (2cc TrainsInNML, DB Set XL, etc), there won't be the default vehicles.
I strongly reccomend you the two sets above. Be aware that if 2cc TrainsInNML works in all climates, DB Set XL only works in Temperate. I strongly reccomend the DB Set XL if you're looking for a set with a lot of vehicles but not too complex, because the vehicle list with 2cc Trains is so long that i'd give 100€ to anyone that has managed to use ALL vehicles.
Re: train length question
well i use the default trainsacs121 wrote:This doesn't tell me which locomotive you are using. Is it a default vehicle ? Because the SH'40 and even the AsiaStar aren't that good at hauling freight. However, the X2001 and Lev1/2/3s are perfect for freight hauling.ANIKHTOS wrote:acs121 wrote:Hold on. Which engine are you using, what is it's max speed, power and tractive effort ?
(speed in kph, power in hp and TE in kgf)
the fastest engine available at the time
even my vacuum trains have 2 engines
You can also get into the Arctic / Tropical climate. They have much, much more powerful diesels there.
Note that generally if you use any NewGRF vehicle set (2cc TrainsInNML, DB Set XL, etc), there won't be the default vehicles.
I strongly reccomend you the two sets above. Be aware that if 2cc TrainsInNML works in all climates, DB Set XL only works in Temperate. I strongly reccomend the DB Set XL if you're looking for a set with a lot of vehicles but not too complex, because the vehicle list with 2cc Trains is so long that i'd give 100€ to anyone that has managed to use ALL vehicles.
and my question was general
so the engine would not be an isure
even if i use the weak asia star as you say or even the ginu a4
the question is the same
will be the same a 2 engine ginzu 7 tiles train
or 1 engine ginzu a4 3.5 tiles long
both configuration reach the maximum speed
so i was asking from the acceleration point
and also from the point of having
2n small trains versus having N longer ones
Re: train length question
To say, the 3,5 tile train will accelerate faster. If you'd want the 7-tile to accelerate as fast as the 3,5 tile, you would need to put 3 locos.ANIKHTOS wrote:well i use the default trainsacs121 wrote:This doesn't tell me which locomotive you are using. Is it a default vehicle ? Because the SH'40 and even the AsiaStar aren't that good at hauling freight. However, the X2001 and Lev1/2/3s are perfect for freight hauling.ANIKHTOS wrote:
the fastest engine available at the time
even my vacuum trains have 2 engines
You can also get into the Arctic / Tropical climate. They have much, much more powerful diesels there.
Note that generally if you use any NewGRF vehicle set (2cc TrainsInNML, DB Set XL, etc), there won't be the default vehicles.
I strongly reccomend you the two sets above. Be aware that if 2cc TrainsInNML works in all climates, DB Set XL only works in Temperate. I strongly reccomend the DB Set XL if you're looking for a set with a lot of vehicles but not too complex, because the vehicle list with 2cc Trains is so long that i'd give 100€ to anyone that has managed to use ALL vehicles.
and my question was general
so the engine would not be an isure
even if i use the weak asia star as you say or even the ginu a4
the question is the same
will be the same a 2 engine ginzu 7 tiles train
or 1 engine ginzu a4 3.5 tiles long
both configuration reach the maximum speed
so i was asking from the acceleration point
and also from the point of having
2n small trains versus having N longer ones
Re: train length question
With realistic acceleration I think double train will be just a tiny bit faster due to having less air drag. In original should be the same.
Re: train length question
7 tile train_dp_ wrote:With realistic acceleration I think double train will be just a tiny bit faster due to having less air drag. In original should be the same.
42 witht he first monorail engine to go 305km/h needed 42 tiles
47!?!? with the millenium z1 engine to go to 305km/h
the 3.5 tile train with the millenium z1 engine needed 47 tiles for the 305km/h
so the answer is they are the same
but why the millenium z1 behaves worse than the x2001???
Re: train length question
Both trains started at the same tile, this is them after travelling moreless 50 tiles with the realistic acceleration model
- andythenorth
- Tycoon
- Posts: 5658
- Joined: 31 Mar 2007 14:23
- Location: Lost in Music
Re: train length question
Just comparing engines (no wagons attached), X2001 has more horsepower per ton than the Millenium Z1
X2001: 9000hp for 95t = 95hp/t
Z1: 10000hp for 170t = 60hp/t
Horsepower is the primary factor in rate of acceleration, more = better
X2001: 9000hp for 95t = 95hp/t
Z1: 10000hp for 170t = 60hp/t
Horsepower is the primary factor in rate of acceleration, more = better
FIRS Industry Replacement Set (released) | HEQS Heavy Equipment Set (trucks, industrial trams and more) (finished)
Unsinkable Sam (ships) (preview released) | CHIPS Has Improved Players' Stations (finished)
Iron Horse ((trains) (released) | Termite (tracks for Iron Horse) (released) | Busy Bee (game script) (released)
Road Hog (road vehicles and trams) (released)
Unsinkable Sam (ships) (preview released) | CHIPS Has Improved Players' Stations (finished)
Iron Horse ((trains) (released) | Termite (tracks for Iron Horse) (released) | Busy Bee (game script) (released)
Road Hog (road vehicles and trams) (released)
-
- Tycoon
- Posts: 5948
- Joined: 27 Apr 2005 07:09
- Contact:
Re: train length question
I´ve already told him (F = m * a), but we could go on forever. Just in case there´s nothing more of interest? Decoupling, anybody?andythenorth wrote: Horsepower is the primary factor in rate of acceleration, more = better
regards
Michael
Re: train length question
good morning Michaelmichael blunck wrote:I´ve already told him (F = m * a), but we could go on forever. Just in case there´s nothing more of interest? Decoupling, anybody?andythenorth wrote: Horsepower is the primary factor in rate of acceleration, more = better
regards
Michael
so the second part of the question
would you like 10 train tile 7
or 20 train tile 3.5 for a route??
what is your personal favourite??
long trains or small trains/??
-
- Tycoon
- Posts: 5948
- Joined: 27 Apr 2005 07:09
- Contact:
Re: train length question
IMO, it depends on routing. More trains could be difficult to handle in restricted space. OTOH, too long trains could also be problematic. Then, there´s the problem with loading time, etc.ANIKHTOS wrote: [..] what is your personal favourite??
long trains or small trains/??
As already discussed, from a technical POV, it should be irrelevant, as long as train mass and motive power are proportional.
regards
Michael
Re: train length question
well now we discuss another aspect apart for max speed and accelrationmichael blunck wrote:IMO, it depends on routing. More trains could be difficult to handle in restricted space. OTOH, too long trains could also be problematic. Then, there´s the problem with loading time, etc.ANIKHTOS wrote: [..] what is your personal favourite??
long trains or small trains/??
As already discussed, from a technical POV, it should be irrelevant, as long as train mass and motive power are proportional.
regards
Michael
we discuss what people like
long trains or small trains
every solution have prons and cons
Re: train length question
so in a route i split the train into half's and lets it run to see any difference
Length 7 train
Train number 8
Unloading max train 3
Loading max train 4
In use 25% -37% max 50%
Profit 1.202.956
Length 3,5 train
Train number 15
Unloading max train 4
Loading max train 8
In use 33 % -40% max 46%
Profit 1.160.403
the first thing we will notice is that the smaller trains but a more stress into the loading station demanding it to be bigger while in the unloading station there is practical no effect
in the small route
there was 2-3 train on the move with a peak of 4 trains
with the smaller train 5-6 train with a peak of 7 trains
so does anyone have the time the game need to load a train???
Length 7 train
Train number 8
Unloading max train 3
Loading max train 4
In use 25% -37% max 50%
Profit 1.202.956
Length 3,5 train
Train number 15
Unloading max train 4
Loading max train 8
In use 33 % -40% max 46%
Profit 1.160.403
the first thing we will notice is that the smaller trains but a more stress into the loading station demanding it to be bigger while in the unloading station there is practical no effect
in the small route
there was 2-3 train on the move with a peak of 4 trains
with the smaller train 5-6 train with a peak of 7 trains
so does anyone have the time the game need to load a train???
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 36 guests