New map features

[Supercheese]

There is the option to send all vehicles (or all vehicles in a group) for service with a single click, so you wouldn't have to click through a hundred vehicles manually.

[cirdan]

That would force me to renew all the vehicles at the same time, and not when each of them reaches the end of its lifetime.

[Pyoro]

It's no big deal, as I said. Sure, I think the way it's now is more convenient, but a) if it bothers me too much I'll look at the patch; I'm compiling my own builds anyways since I always play with daylength. If it's not too complicated I'll just keep that around, and if not b) it's not like it killed me the last 10 years of playing OTTD of having to manually autorenew, so it won't kill me now either

I'm guessing a setting is too much of a hassle? Autorenew: off / when servicing / forced. Or something.

[TrueSatan]

Not sure how deep the code was altered to have the new auto renew when a vehicle is old enough was.
Maybe there is no way to have all options in it at all.
But I could life with the suggestion from Cirdan to have an order to auto renew. In a way its doing it with the old behaviour
as well. I have an order to go to the nearest depot if the vehicle lifespan is 0 (or it more like
jump to order number one is the lifespan is greater then 0). But not on all vehicles.

If would be nice to have a set of order templates like that one to chose. Would make it easier
for newbies to add those order.
Another template could be jump to order one if the service isn't need.
I usually set those orders at the end. So its only my liking at the end of the orders hehe

On the other hand I understand Cirdans intention. Its not that easy for someone that has started
with the game to understand the setting to renew if they are getting old in advance settings.
why is the setting there if nothing happens if for example my train is older then his lifespan.
So it would be great to have some arcade settings (like everything is on auto that makes sense)
like auto servicing, auto renew and other stuff that could be in those settings
and on the other hand, settings like on advance settings to modify everything
and set up orders to your liking.
I guess the setting renew if my vehicles are getting old should be Never,Semi-Auto, Auto.
Then another setting for example "when to auto renew" with off/when servicing.
Auto grays the l8ter option out, because it forces like Pyoro said the trains to go to the depot
regardless of any order there or not.

Just my 2 cents again
And not an easy task to do, because of those many options.

Cheer

[Alkel U3]

Thanks for the explanation. I do appreciate your (or anybody else's) opinion on the matter.

I appreciate the realism of having to service trains. Unfortunately, the game create s slight problem, no matter how I do this.

I usually give my trains a depot order somewhere in the order list, which I consider the most realistic way. Any serious railroad use scheduled maintenance. But this creates problems when the line gets really busy. (Such as a passenger line connecting ever-growing cities.) Stations are easy - build as many platforms as needed to avoid bottlenecks. Track can be doubled if need be.

But depots are worse. They become bottlenecks, because I can't build a multi-track depot.

I can build several depots, sure. But then I end up with several groups of trains - some use depot 1, some use depot 2, some use depot 3 . . . Adding more trains then require a careful balance so I don't add depot-1 trains only. Worrying about this looses its charm when the game has 5 such lines as well as a lot of industry transport. And depot-1 trains can still congest and block the line for trains using the other depots.

Another method is to not have depot orders, just provide some depots along the line. This tends to be disastrous for a busy line. A train decides it needs service, and rolls through some stations without stopping in order to reach some depot. Then it has to go back in order to resume its route - passing even more stations. In the meantime, passengers pile up. Worse, if the line ever gets a gridlock, every train goes to the depots when I eventually fix the block.

The no-order mehod can be refined by having (parallel) depots so the trains are forced to visit one of them. This ensures that the trains are always freshly serviced and won't go to depots at times inconvenient for their schedule. Also, two parallel depots can service trains as fast as they come. So no congestion due to service. The problem is that this too breaks down very badly with congestion-induced delays. The trains feels the need for service, and decide on depot trips at the most inconvenient times. This cause more delays in tightly packed scenarios.


A multi-platform depot would solve this. I.e. build several depots so they connect side-by-side. They could then act as a single depot as far as depot orders are concerned, and a train going to depot will pick an entrance not busy with another train - just like they pick a free platform when rolling into a big station. It would then be possible to build depots large enough to service the busiest lines with a single depot order. Might need to think a bit about track layout and signalling, but that is what the game is about.


Would this be possible? To have a row of connected depots work like a single multi-platform depot?

Actually, there is a useful cross between the no-order and service at determined depot - an order "go to the nearest depot" which can also have the "when service needed" attribute. I've already successfully did it like that a few times with trains choosing from two to three depots and they go to the nearest unobstructed one.

[wallyweb]

** Possible Bug **

I just received a report that my compilations of both Cirdan's and JGR's pushes have not been working on some Windows PCs, including Windows7. The reporter clicked on the executable (openttd.exe) and nothing happened. Apparently none of my binaries have ever worked for the reporter.
Has anybody else had this issue?

[Pyoro]

Naw, I used yours to compare when reporting those bugs (since I patched some things and you never know ^^) and they worked fine - Win7 64bit. Didn't do anything special either.

[TrueSatan]

No problem over here, downloaded your version on Win 10 Pro 64bit and it works fine.
Have you tried to delete the game config file? Maybe there is the culprit.

Cheers

[wallyweb]

Thanks Pyoro.

No problem over here, downloaded your version on Win 10 Pro 64bit and it works fine.
Have you tried to delete the game config file? Maybe there is the culprit.

Windows10? Good to know. There have been reports of stuff made for Windows7 and 8 not working on 10.
I'll keep the config file suggestion in mind and pass it on. Thanks.

[cirdan]

I'm guessing a setting is too much of a hassle? Autorenew: off / when servicing / forced. Or something.

I was trying to avoid this as we already have too many settings and options, but it may be the best course of action. I'll see what I can do.

[TrueSatan]

Thanks Pyoro.

No problem over here, downloaded your version on Win 10 Pro 64bit and it works fine.
Have you tried to delete the game config file? Maybe there is the culprit.

Windows10? Good to know. There have been reports of stuff made for Windows7 and 8 not working on 10.
I'll keep the config file suggestion in mind and pass it on. Thanks.

Any time wally, I can power up a windows 8.1 and 7 virtual machine as well.
Even Win XP would be possible if needed

Hope you will find the problem soon or your friend.

Cheers

[wallyweb]

Would this be possible? To have a row of connected depots work like a single multi-platform depot?

Well, this is a whole different can of worms... You mean a bunch of depots built side by side that behave like a single depot with respect to orders? I guess that it could be done, but it would be a lot of work.

Would something similar to the "Join stations" function work?

[cirdan]

All right, here is what I have cooked up. The global setting that made vehicles skip servicing when breakdowns are disabled is gone, and it has been replaced by a company setting that controls automatic servicing and can take three possible values: never (vehicles will never go out of their way for servicing), autorenew only (old vehicles will look for a depot on their own if they do not have any in their schedule and autorenew is enabled) and normal (vehicles will behave as if breakdowns were enabled, trying to visit a depot at regular intervals). Scheduled orders are not affected by this setting, so service and conditional orders will trigger appropriately for old vehicles if autorenew is enabled. This should provide enough flexibility to keep any existing setup, but also to take advantage of autorenew in more cases. In particular, if automatic servicing is set to never, you can selectively enable autorenew for a vehicle by having a service order in its schedule. And we are trading a global setting for a company one, so at least the overall number of settings remains constant.

Please test if you are interested in any sort of autorenew working with breakdowns disabled, so that we can see if this caters for everybody's needs. Do note that this patch bumps the savegame version, so don't get too carried away with it until I merge it.

Would something similar to the "Join stations" function work?

The interface wouldn't be a problem. The biggest problem would be that there are lots of assumptions in the code that a depot is tied to a tile; for instance, a depot ceases to exist when it is demolished, unlike stations or waypoints, which linger for a while before disappearing.

[wallyweb]

All right, here is what I have cooked up.

From the kitchens of Cirdan, for your unguaranteed taesting pleasures ...

OpenTTD-ServiceTest-ga066c950M-Win32.7z

NOT bridged

(5.46 MiB) Downloaded 77 times

Bon appetit.

Would something similar to the "Join stations" function work?

The interface wouldn't be a problem. The biggest problem would be that there are lots of assumptions in the code that a depot is tied to a tile; for instance, a depot ceases to exist when it is demolished, unlike stations or waypoints, which linger for a while before disappearing.

Pity. I was having visions of the world's longest wormhole:
Map Tile 1:1 - Depot Entry
Map Tile 4095:4095 - Depot Exit

[TrueSatan]

Thanks Cirdan, will test it. What is default? Always auto renew so normal or something else?

First the "normal" servicing version without tracerestriction.
A bit l8er I hope I can add the tracerestriction version.

Edit: As promised the tracerestriction version as well.

And I tested the "normal" version while compiling. Setting was none after loading my save game.
No trains without the depot order went to the depot for renew.
And renew was done for trains with the order if the time was right to renew the train.

Nice, thanks Cirdan. Guess that’s something that works for all.
Imho the setting should be "normal" as default for games, so new player don't
have to think about auto renewing their trains.

Cheers

[TrueSatan]

Hmm not sure if its my compiled version, but I can load old save games but I can't
open my ydt save with the new service version anymore.
Always says invalid chunk size if I try to open the save game.
I have attached the save game that's not working.

Cheers

[cirdan]

Nice, thanks Cirdan. Guess that’s something that works for all. Imho the setting should be "normal" as default for games, so new player don't have to think about auto renewing their trains.

Thanks for testing. I tried to be conservative here and leave the default as it was (where autorenew was ignored when determining if a vehicle needed servicing). For savegames the new setting is converted from the old one.

Hmm not sure if its my compiled version, but I can load old save games but I can't open my ydt save with the new service version anymore. Always says invalid chunk size if I try to open the save game. I have attached the save game that's not working.

Oops, my bad. I forgot to update the savegame checking code. (I did tell you not to get too carried away with it, right?) I will fix this before pushing to the repository. In the meanwhile, you can load the savegame from the command line

Code: Select all

openttd -g "Fulda Transport, 11. Feb 2878.sav"

(the savegame itself is fine). Thanks for reporting, and sorry for the inconvenience.

[TrueSatan]

You know Cirdan, I need to get carried away lol
Or I have to go back to the rather old version.
Any changes I can put into the source to recompile it?
As long as its not to much changes (like changing some magic numbers hehe)

And I really think the "normal" settings helps a lot for new players to get fast
into the game. I would suggest to put this patch into the original trunk
as well, but I fear its only working because of your work on many internal
of the game. So I won't suggest it haha

Thanks again and I can't wait for the new push into the repo

Cheers

[cirdan]

I have just pushed an update to the repo with the new servicing setting. The savegame loading bug should be fixed; if you saved any games with my previous servicing patch, you should now be able to load it.

[wallyweb]

I have just pushed an update ...

Here are the Windows 32bit binaries:

OpenTTD-REBASED-r27339-g7573dfd9-Win32.7z

Allows bridges ONLY over Default Stations

(5.47 MiB) Downloaded 73 times

OpenTTD-FreeBridge-g7573dfd9M-Win32.7z

Allows bridges over ALL Stations

(5.47 MiB) Downloaded 73 times

The dog ate the guarantees.

JGR's Tracerestrict versions are available on the next page.

Enjoy