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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 3:37 am 
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When you do next version of FIRS can I make a suggestion?

Add a twist to the game:

Petrol: instead of going to Machine Shop .. send to Clay Pit and Quarry .. fuel for the machinery. Whether you send this as well as Engineering Supplies, or instead of the supplies. This way be a bit more realistic then petrol going to a Machine Shop. Doing this could also remove from going to the Bulk terminal to make room for something else to go there.

Timber: also send this to the mines so can be used to support the roof to prevent cave ins. can be included with the supplies if wish. Need deliver 2 cargos to produce more.

Cheers

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:59 pm 
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It probably already has been answered, but since this topic has many pages and the search function gave no result, how can I make a product distribute evenly (or somehow, at least) in one station? Example: I transport Engineering Supplies to a station that has both Iron Mine and Junk Yard near it (both of these industries accept Eng Supplies). For some reason only one of the industries receives the bonus production from the Eng Supplies. How can I make it so both of the industries receive the bonus without splitting the station ?
Thanks for help.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:09 pm 
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GarryG wrote:
how can I make a product distribute evenly


The only way I been able to do have both industries receive supplies is to have train transfer the cargo instead of unload at the station. Then have trucks to distribute it to both industries.

I know that not the answer you was hoping for, but it the only way I found that works so far.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:26 am 
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Enable CargoDist, which will help balance which supplies will go to which stations and industries.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:41 am 
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Not so fast, my man. If there are two industries that will accept the same supply within one station's catchment area, cargodist won't distribute the supply to multiple industries by delivering the supply to that one station. So stick with GarryG's solution.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:23 pm 
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No I wasn't disagreeing with Garry's post.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:49 pm 
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Thanks for the solution guys. I wonder why there is no built-in way to do it, though.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:44 pm 
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There is another way, that works sometimes.

Lets say you want 4 platforms. To be built equal distance between the 2 industries. First build 2 platforms (platforms 1 & 2). These represent say Industry A. Then hold down your Ctrl while you build 2 more platforms (platforms 3 & 4) joining the other 2. This bring up a window to give you the option to make these 2 platforms a different name even thou they joining the others.

Platforms 1 & 2 should serve Industry A and Platforms 3 & 4 should serve Industry B.

All thou it looks like one station, it acts as 2 different stations.

All you need to do is route your train so one journey it arrives platforms 1 and 2 and next time arrives 3 & 4.

Cheers

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:22 pm 
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The way FIRS primary industries accept engineering/farm supplies is exactly the same from any other industries accepting any cargo. In non-FIRS game, if you build 1 station next to 2 oil refineries, only 1 refinery will take all delivered oil while the other one sits idle. Or, in FIRS game, if you have a sugar refinery and bio refinery next to each other, and build a station next to them, and deliver sugar to that station, only the industry closest to the station will take the cargo, leaving the other industry dry.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:26 pm 
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Obviously, with only 67 industries, what FIRS really needs is MOAR INDUSTRIES. So here goes with my 2 cents.

Please note I'm only talking about the FIRS economy here, so temperate environment.

First, the Power Plant: I don't like it. Coal is already over-taxed as it is, with five separate secondaries calling for it, and the power plant is a black hole, not adding anything itself. But it's a great cash cow.

Also, is it possible for an industry to be forced to close by making it obsolete? That would add more flavor and potentially more depth to the early-start games, while keeping the map from getting cluttered with anachronistic businesses (smithy forge, I'm looking at you).

I saw in the code that default houses require the Goods cargo to be functional or they break; I'm about to advocate breaking goods down into separate cargos, so I don't know if that would work at all. Anyway, here's the suggestions.

The goods chains:
Each of the goods-producing industries (Textile Mill, Paper Mill, Plastics Plant, Glass Works, and Metal Workshop) produce (in addition to any mnufacturing supplies) their on unique cargo: textiles, paper, plastic, glasswares, and metalwares, respectively. Some of these (paper, glasswares, and metalwares) can be sent directly to terminal industries, while others (plastic, textiles) have another step or two to go. I'm adding the Glassworks to this, obviously, so whether it keeps Building Materials or not as an output would be up for discussion.

Textiles, for example, gets sent to a Clothes Factory (with Manufacturing Supplies) to make clothing.

This permits more depth in the supply chains. For example, an Automobile Plant can require metalwares (representing parts), glasswares (representing windows and lights), and textiles (for the upholstery), and make cars that get delivered to a Car Lot terminal industry.

So here goes with the full list. Please bear in mind I'm only writing down changes, so even though I'm not writing it down, the Paper Mill still takes in wood and chemicals and still outputs ManSup. I'm referring to them by tiers, because I don't know what comes after "quaternary".

***Tier 1:
Arable Farm: add Vegetables to production

Cereal farm: produces crapton of grain

Silver mine: produces Argentite

***Tier 2:
Cannery: Fruit, Vegetables, ManSup -> Food

Grain Mill: grain -> flour

Sugar refinery: sugar beet -> sugar

Textile Mill: chemicals instead of ManSup -> textiles

Metal Workshop -> metalwares

Glassworks -> glasswares

Paper Mill -> paper

Plastics Plant -> plastic

Oil Refinery -> petroleum products (just a name change to acknowledge products other than gasoline)

Silver Smelter: argentite, chemicals -> silver

Cannery: vegetables, fruit, ManSup -> food

***Tier 3:
Bakery: flour, sugar, ManSup -> food

Clothes Factory: textiles, ManSup -> clothing

Furniture Factory-> Furniture

Silversmith: silver, ManSup -> jewellery

Mint: silver, metalwares -> valuables

Microchip Factory: sand, plastic, chemicals, silver -> microchips

***Tier 4:
Port: metalwares, glasswares, clothing -> coffee, rubber (because another source of EngSup is boring)

Electronics Plant: microchips, plastic, glasswares, silver -> electronics

***Tier 5:
Automobile Plant: metalwares, rubber, glasswares, textiles -> automobiles

Appliance Factory: electronics, metalwares, plastic -> appliances

Equipment Factory: electronics, metalwares, glasswares, plastic, rubber -> Industrial Equipment (can be fed to primaries already going Gung-Ho to further increase production to 6x. No other effect. This is intentionally a really hard chain to set up.)


***Terminal Industries - consume without producing.

Newspaper office: paper

Fuel depot: petroleum products (rural version of gas station)

Car lot: automobiles

General Store (obsolete in early 1900s): food, alcohol, clothes, glasswares, metalwares, furniture, building materials.

(Builder's Yards, Grocery Stores, Luxury Goods Stores, and Department Stores show up once the General Store is obsolete.)

Grocery Store: food, alcohol, fruit, vegetables, coffee

Luxury Goods Store: jewellery, glasswares, clothing

Office Building: paper, furniture, electronics (maybe generates mail? Represents the aggregate demand of offices in the city. Should be restricted to large cities only, say over 3,000 or so.)

Bank: valuables (maybe generates valuables like Pikka's)

Department Store: electronics, clothing, glasswares, metalwares, furniture, appliances, jewellery (should be rare, probably city-size restricted like the office building.)

Flames welcome.

Edit: forgot to add that I'd be happy to help code. Took a glance at the source and it didn't seem too scary, but there's too many moving parts for me to be completely confident I wouldn't make it all snarf.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:43 pm 
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there is in principle nothing against an economy with longer chains...

BUT: you can only have 32 cargos in the game (at the same time, the GRF may contain more). so if you add a cargo to your new economy, you must remove one existing one from it.

you should rework your plan to take this rule into account.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:48 pm 
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Also you only get 3 inputs and 2 outputs per industry ;)

But suggestions are welcome :)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:35 am 
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Well, there goes that idea. The whole concept is predicated on adding cargos. Didn't know there was a limit. So they doubled the industry limit for 1.6, but not the cargo limit? That... Sucks. The input/output limits are somewhat annoying, but workable, but the 32 cargo-type cap might be an issue. I'll have to think on it a bit.

Okay, so what about forcing obsolete industries out of business, and requiring certain industries to be built in/near a city of a certain size or larger?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:50 am 
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See often where some players not like the Power Plants.

Maybe to satisfy everyone .. remove this from your next FIRS.

Those who want Power Plants use one of the stand alone Power Station sets with FIRS such as the "Oil Fired Power Plant" ( (it has both oil and Coal Power Plants) and "Pre-industrial era Houses" that has a Coal Power Plant.

These both worked with previous FIRS including the snakebite versions .. and they seem to work ok too with 1.4.5.

Cheers

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:51 am 
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spacecowboy wrote:
Okay, so what about forcing obsolete industries out of business, and requiring certain industries to be built in/near a city of a certain size or larger?

It's possible and it's been done in the past, both of which have proven to be unpopular. Many people like to be able to set up and industry and have it run forever, knowing that they don't have to mess with it again. Many people have also complained about restrictions of where industries can be placed, and the movement has been to relax or eliminate those rules. It's easier for players to impose rules on themselves than it is for players to get around restrictions that they believe are unreasonable.

GarryG wrote:
See often where some players not like the Power Plants.

Maybe to satisfy everyone .. remove this from your next FIRS.

Those who want Power Plants use one of the stand alone Power Station sets with FIRS such as the "Oil Fired Power Plant" ( (it has both oil and Coal Power Plants) and "Pre-industrial era Houses" that has a Coal Power Plant.

These both worked with previous FIRS including the snakebite versions .. and they seem to work ok too with 1.4.5.

Interestingly enough, I just tested the power plants that come with Oil Fired Power Plant and WIRES with FIRS 2.0 betas. If you place them before FIRS then the power plants require bauxite instead of coal, and if you place them after FIRS then they require alcohol. The industry chains appear to work fine for that, but it is clear that FIRS 2.0 breaks the "coal" chain for them.

I did suggest to Andy that he consider adding oil or biomass waste as a secondary fuel source just to make it more interesting.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:06 am 
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GarryG wrote:
tested the power plants that come with Oil Fired Power Plant and WIRES with FIRS 2.0 betas


I didn't use WIRES in my test, so maybe it is WIRES that conflicted with the cargos. I put both the stand along industries before FIRS.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:44 am 
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GarryG wrote:
GarryG wrote:
tested the power plants that come with Oil Fired Power Plant and WIRES with FIRS 2.0 betas


I didn't use WIRES in my test, so maybe it is WIRES that conflicted with the cargos. I put both the stand along industries before FIRS.


I ran them both individually with FIRS 2.0 beta 2 from Oct 5.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:45 am 
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Must be a bit of difference in FIRS 1.4.5 and FIRS 2.0 Betas

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:22 pm 
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Okay, one last question: is the 32 cargo limit the maximum that can be loaded into the game by a NewGRF or the maximum that can be active simultaneously. In other words, if I phase out a cargo at a given date and no longer reference it, is there a way to use that 'slot' for another new cargo?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:15 pm 
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no, cargos are static throughout the game, you cannot phase out one and replace it by another.

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