one train depot for all train network

ra_27 · Post by **ra_27** » 26 Mar 2014 03:34

Has anyone ever try to have just one train depot to run the whole train network on?

why I'm asking is can it be done I woke up at about 3am and have had this stuck in my head all day.

so can it be done and if so how ?

I'm going to give it a go the next new game I started, which I hope will be in a day or so.

to start I thinking the middle of the map but that I guest would be to easy a place to put so I'm think of out to one side or the place where I build my first rail of the game.

what you think? its mad or it can be done?

Eddi · Post by **Eddi** » 26 Mar 2014 04:15

if you play with breakdowns, the results may be very poor.

Pyoro · Post by **Pyoro** » 26 Mar 2014 04:31

I actually did play a game like that once. iirc, sooner or later distances simply were too long for the depot to be found, so you had to do everything manually with stops in-between.

No break-downs though so it wasn't anything especially difficult or whatever ^^

ra_27 · Post by **ra_27** » 26 Mar 2014 04:38

Going to play with breakdowns on as always.

so do you think it have to be at less t deport to run with breakdowns on.

I will start with one and take it from there less deport is what I'm aim for.

YouTube · Post by **kamnet** » 26 Mar 2014 06:44

The problem is that when a train decides that it needs to visit a depot, it will try to find a depot that is accessible on its route within 20 tiles. If it cannot find one, then it's lost and it resets its cycle again before it looks. It will keep doing this until it either finds a depot within 20 tiles, or it breaks down. If you play with only one depot, the only chance of this system working is if this depot is in the dead-center of EVERY route, and every train eventually has to pass directly by it.

ra_27 · Post by **ra_27** » 26 Mar 2014 07:56

if I put in a order that it must go to depot then it would work then if I add in some way points.

what do you think.

I'm going to give it a go tonight if i get some time.

YNM · Post by **YNM** » 26 Mar 2014 12:34

It'd be pretty silly if you have this train going from one end of the map to the other end just to service ! I mostly have depots on large stations, or one depot for lines with similar trackage and route.

Don't play with breakdown on, but servicing is still on. It's waay realistic for me, at least.

ra_27 · Post by **ra_27** » 26 Mar 2014 12:42

Yes i do see your point might just try it out on a small map

just for fun for a day or so then get back to the real fun

Brumi · Post by **Brumi** » 26 Mar 2014 20:02

Hasn't this already been done on openttdcoop?

ra_27 · Post by **ra_27** » 26 Mar 2014 23:47

I don't know if it has or not Brumi

I just give it ago for fun to see if it can be done but from what I have read not real well or at all

Post by **Dave** » 27 Mar 2014 13:34

I usually limit my depots to the following:

(Length of map + width of map) / 100

So for a 512x512 map, 10.24.

Or ten.

Vinnie_nl · Post by **Vinnie_nl** » 27 Mar 2014 13:43

Challenge accepted

Ameecher · Post by **Ameecher** » 27 Mar 2014 17:13

Dave wrote:I usually limit my depots to the following:

((Length of map + width of map) x 2) / 100

So for a 512x512 map, 10.24.

Or ten.

But by your formula that'd give you 20 for a 512x512 map

ra_27 · Post by **ra_27** » 27 Mar 2014 21:24

so far so good

to but I do need to fix a think up I walked way form system and my son how plays the game went and bought out a company. lol little bugger he only 6 and he getting as good as me.

but I have to say it will be good as so far all the track I had layout in the game was planed so I could do this and not I have to add in trains that I did layout so I guest i get a real test now on how I working when I add then in.

I have tried on on orders for train to get then to go to depot and it works ok so far.

see below

Train to town 1
Train to town 2
Train to town 1
Train to town 2
Train to Deport
then it start again

I'm' going to make it longer each new train I ad to see what I can to to max it out with out have to main breakdown I'm thinking no more then 9 to 10 times before train needs to go to deport.

Supercheese · Post by **Supercheese** » 27 Mar 2014 21:38

One Depot to rule them all, One Depot to find them,
One Depot to bring them all and in the darkness bind them...

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Post by **Dave** » 27 Mar 2014 23:41

Ameecher wrote:
Dave wrote:I usually limit my depots to the following:

((Length of map + width of map) x 2) / 100

So for a 512x512 map, 10.24.

Or ten.
But by your formula that'd give you 20 for a 512x512 map

Well spotted. Do you want your congratulatory kick in the face now or later?

ra_27 · Post by **ra_27** » 28 Mar 2014 02:26

Supercheese that was great forget "sorry couldn't resist" I wish I came up with it.

Ameecher · Post by **Ameecher** » 28 Mar 2014 23:58

Dave wrote:
Ameecher wrote:
Dave wrote:I usually limit my depots to the following:

((Length of map + width of map) x 2) / 100

So for a 512x512 map, 10.24.

Or ten.
But by your formula that'd give you 20 for a 512x512 map
Well spotted. Do you want your congratulatory kick in the face now or later?

Whenever suits you really.

Vinnie_nl · Post by **Vinnie_nl** » 29 Mar 2014 11:29

Challenge completed.

Well this was a challenge in the beginning, figuring out how to make a viable network layout with known concepts to work. The connections of primaries to the network was no problem however I wanted autoreplacement to work, so I included some conditional orders. I know trains don't see depots on long distances so they never autoreplace, (here I mean upgrading to new trainengine) so i needed some testing, I play without breakdowns wich result into no need for service. Basicly trains never require service but if you autoreplace them they now get tagged that they do. How to abuse? Check their tag with a waypoint and conditional order, wich resulted in the following orderlist for primaries.

Code: Select all

1. Pickup primairy
2. Drop factory
3. Go to autorenew check (waypoint)
4. If requires service is true go to order 6
5. Go to order 1
6. Go to depot (waypoint called depot)
7. Go to normal network (another waypoint)

Why did I use waypoints? first find the depot from long distance second, I needed some overflows to work, overflows that would send abundant trains into the one depot. So I made seperate networks for the train pathfinder with these waypoints and the two-way end of line setting. Using openttdcoop network layout with sidelinehubs and mainlines i placed my depot in a seperate sideline The depot/overflow sideline you might call it. entering this sideline would send a train to a reverser. once a train is on a reverser the train pathfinder would see the network behind the reverser.

Now if you look at the depot screenshot you will see the reversers on the topside (mainline comes from right and results in a sideline on the top and this sideline encircles it to the bottom) and an entire mess of lines and junction I shall now explain.

Well like said before I wanted overflows to work, normally we make them work with a local depot but that would was not allowed in this challenge. So how to make it work then? Well i needed trains to see if they were in the overflow or were actually allowed to go loading, making a train lost would be one way as we usually do at openttdcoop, but I had an concept I wanna try and it featured NUTS. My idea was quite simple, NUTS had a train that changes his max speed acording to the track it drives on, the meow class. So the combination of a variable max speed + the ability to trigger via conditional orders should have some potential.

20 minutes later I had a working set of orders:

Code: Select all

1. Jump to order 10
2. Go to Wood pickup entry
3. When max speed is equal or higher than 191 jump to order 9
4. Full load at Pickup
5. Unload at Goodsdrop
6. Goods autoreplace check
7. go to order 9 if requires service
8. Go to order 2
9 Go to depot
10 Go to (secondairy) overflow waypoint

The first order is for new trains only, they should know that they are build in the overflow and skip to the correct order once they see so.3rd order is the trigger for overflow, only happens when train is in the overflow track. The orders 6,7 are for the previously explained autoreplace function I wanted to work. Order 10 is for the train to enter the correct overflow re-entry to station. This was needed because there are going to be 3 seperate overflows using the same depot.

See overflow screenshot, the mainline has 3 choices once it splits, 2 go to the pickup station the 3rd goes to the reverser, it usses a reverser because the 3rd option should be last choice not to be chosen unless no other choice, using a reverser makes the waypoint behind it, invisible for the trainpathfinder. I needed a second reverser because i had no room for a turn. You see this one has red tracks, these result into +30% extra max speed, its 4 tiles long because the train is articulated (think this would be the english term for that) and the one extra tile is to be sure.

Now into more detail, you might be asking after the firsts screenshot WTF is going on over there with the other mess of tracks. You see the depot has one entrance and two exits. One leads to the normal network waypoint, basicly only used for new trains and if you autoreplace trains. The other track that splits into 3 goes to the 3 overflow's, it goes to one waypoint first to prevent shotcuts to the regular network. Shortcuts that would make the overflow useless and obsolete. You also see that there is a shortcut from depot waypoint to overflow waypoint, this is to minimise traffic to and from the depot itself. You can also see small priorities to make sure that the trains from depot wait.

Some questions that might come up that i will answer right now:

Why do you use short trains?
I use short trains to keep my curves short, and by short curves i mean curves a train can take on full speed no slowdowns. Also shorter trains is more trains is more stress on network is more fun fixing the stuff you made.

You talked about networks in your obnoxious post, you cheated!!!!
It is one network all tracks are connected, the train pathfinder is tricked into thinking it are two networks.

WTFBBQ those signal mess, how do you know what does what and where did you learn this.
Openttdcoop welcome server then public server, playing with them is different then their wiki.

Dude, why didin't you connect some lines infront of your hubs.
They are spare and used when i need to make my entire line 2 lines (LL_RR)

Why didnt you connect oil chain?
I think the bug that oil on temperate does only decrease still exists and i didnt load the proper newgrf's to counter it.

Why do you play without breakdowns?
Unpredictable, can't be countered to make a efficient network.

Terminus or RoRo stations?
Terminus for space efficiency.

Can I buy you a beer?
Yes, you can

ra_27 · Post by **ra_27** » 30 Mar 2014 07:57

have a look at your save game now Vinnie_nl

looks like you put a loot more into they what I have so far

I never add a way point as A option in my might have to I forget to use then most of the time.

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