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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:21 pm 
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Hi, everybody!

I just found this site after searching around for info about the port to IOS.

I've read through multiple sites - for the new and the old products - but haven't found answers to my questions.

I'm sure these questions must have been asked before, but I'm sort of betting that other people might be having the same sorts of problems I've been having. So perhaps my posting this question will help others get the answers they seek as well. At least I hope so.

I did the first few easy scenarios with out a problem, but I've been stopped at Boulder Breakers. I might want to start up several threads to talk about each topic, but perhaps someone in the community can tell me what you prefer.

Here's my problem.

I've tried running bus routes between the cities to try and nudge my percentage up to 10%, but the best I can do is about 7.8 or so. I increased the buses and made a bunch of local lines in each of the three cities, which boosted me up to 8.5% or so - but I am not getting it any higher.

I've tried truck routes to deliver coal and iron ore to the Steel Mill - but I've only gotten steel on a very sporadic basis. When I have gotten steel, I've driven it to the factory, but didn't get any goods.

I tried to set up a train route to deliver coal and iron, since I read somewhere that maybe the cargo needs to arrive at the same time. My problem is that when I stop at either resource plant (for coal or iron), my train is filling both cars with one product. I can't get it to only load one car, for instance, and then go to the next place and load the next car.

I suspect that the PC version has a few more bells and whistles, but I can't find any actual discussions that address this point.

So - can anybody help me?

I'm excited about seeing this product on IOS - I never played it on the old desktop versions, but I like in depth sims a lot.

Are there FAQ's that you'd point me to that will answer all of my questions, especially for this new version?

Is there a manual somewhere?

FWIW, I think this site could be the go to site, especially if people (like me) type in things like "Locomotion Steel Mill" and stumble across the answers I hope to find in this thread.

Thanks in advance!

Russell


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:49 pm 
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Collect all of the steel produced by creating a train that stops at the mill; tell the vehicle to wait for a full load when it makes that particular stop in its route. When setting the route, hit the green plus button and select the appropriate cargo after assigning a stop.

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If you find that the steel is not returning a haul of goods, make sure that the station is close enough to the factory.

Also, for future reference, see the dual track guide under the "advanced" tab in this guide when you move on to new maps. Using dual tracks will greatly improve your productivity with longer routes, especially when delivering non-passenger cargo. My Locomotion screenshots thread has some examples.

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 Post subject: Re: Steel Mill
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:25 pm 
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Steel Mill problems:

Okay, I think I got it figured out.

Apparently, the problem is - the Steel Mill needs to get Coal and Iron ore in the Mill during the same month. The Steel Mill will accept both products on their own, but it won't make anything out of them unless both products are present at the same time.

Here's how I solved the problem (for me).

I created a station at the Iron Ore source and another station at the Coal source. I created another station between the sources, and created a train with one hopper car.

I ordered the train to pick up a full load of Ore, and to drop it off at the mid point station. I then told it to pick up a full load of Coal, and again, to drop it at the mid-point station.

The Mid Point station has two separate station lines, one right next to the other. One line terminates the source train, the other line terminates the rail to the steel mill. On the Steel Mill Line, I created another train with two hopper cars, and ordered it to wait until full of both Iron Ore and Coal. Once full, I told it to go to the steel mill and unload both cargoes.

At the Steel Mill, I have another parallel double station, which has one line from the midpoint station, and another line that goes to the factory. I created one more train that waits until full of steel, and then takes the steel to the factory to unload.

And voila! The source train makes two trips, and as it drops off resources, the mid train picks them all up (so no loss), and then the mid train drops off Coal and Iron, and the Steel train gets filled up...

Some things I learned (in case anybody else is out in the cold on this):

If your train is long enough to stretch across a road, it will block traffic on that road. (I know, no duh, but I didn't know it until it happened)

It seems to me that you can't change up your consist on your train. If it has hoppers, that's what it has - no way to use the same train, for instance, to pick up resources, pick up steel, and then pick up goods, unless you pull around empty cars on your trip.

Trains can crash into each other. Switches will protect a single rail from crashes, but it also won't let trains move. Building a side by pass for trains to wait seems to work, with signals... but a double track (direction specified by one way signals) or single dedicated tracks seem to work better.

I was actually surprised when I passed the 10%. I'd gotten distracted trying to re-route my road traffic, and bingo, I finally hit.

So - was there somewhere else I could have found the answer I was seeking - or even hints? I searched everywhere I could to find my answers, but had no luck. Is there a secret hidey hole where this stuff is hidden?

I did find a pdf of the Locomotion manual - but it doesn't answer any specific questions as far as I can tell.

Thanks!

Russell


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:43 pm 
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Hi Werebear, like you I discovered this site in trying to get info/help with Transport Tycoon iOS, and like you I am stuck on the same level!
I still hope there may be a simpler solution than the one you describe, because it's so convoluted I would never have discovered it on my own, which makes me fear the worst for my continued enjoyment of the game.

I have built a single track that runs from the coal mine, via the iron ore mine, to the steel mill, and then to the Boulder Bay factory. I have six wagons (for coal and ore), and two flatbed wagons(for steel) on the train. The vehicle orders are all just stop-offs (I'm not ordering it to wait until full). The orders are 1. Coal mine, 2. Steel mill, 3. Ore mine, 4. Steel mill, 5. Factory. This seems to work - it takes a full load of ore, then one of coal, then picks up steel (between 7 and 10 units) and delivers them.

However, coupled with a single bus bus route to the three towns, my performance index is around 5% - the highest it got to was 7%, so maybe I need to try what you've described.

If you find more tips, trick or sources of information, please do post them here for other newbies like me. The help file refers to a Transport Tycoon Companion that is free to download on the App Store, but it doesn't seem to be there yet.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:06 pm 
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Arno, I'm a newbie just like you, so take this with a grain of salt, please...

I think if I were trying what you are doing, I'd pick up some coal AND iron ore before I headed to the steel mill.

What I was seeing was that if I didn't get the other part of the coal/iron to the steel mill fast enough, the bit I'd dropped off earlier would have disappeared, or the month may have crossed.

It didn't occur to me that I could pull that many cars - I'm still thinking of other Railroad games, I think, in which it was harder to move more cars.

However, as I think about it, the problem with my plan - dragging hopper cars to both places and picking up both cargoes - is that I don't think you can specify if a hopper car is for iron or for coal.

In other words, if you tried it like I said, you'd probably end up with all of your cars being filled up with whatever you picked up first - and delivering just that won't make steel.

It is why I came up with a mid-point station to drop stuff into another train...

I believe you entirely when you say what you did worked - but I think my way might work better.

My way, I say how many cars of each of coal/iron I am going to deliver to the waiting train, and then I can also deliver exactly the right amount of both ingredients to the steel mill.

I haven't seen my way fail yet (but maybe it will).

Now, all that said, I don't think my way is all that hard - and might work out better for you in the long run. I had to learn to build multi-platform stations, and route my trains, but that's all part of the fun.

Don't give up just yet. I suspect some part of the problem is that most users on this site have been playing forever, and already know this stuff back and forth.

You and I are newbies, so we don't know the underlying logic.

I'll keep posting and asking questions, and even answering questions if I can.

If we newbies band together, who knows? There might end up being some more fans of this game and the genre!

Thanks!

Russell


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:42 pm 
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Use two longer trains, each delivering only one of the two materials. I'll show you what I did:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:49 pm 
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Here's the setup:

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(Normally, double-posting is not allowed, but you can only have 3 attachments per post :wink: )

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:51 pm 
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LocoRoller wrote:
Use two longer trains, each delivering only one of the two materials. I'll show you what I did:

Do we have to consider potential decay of the cargoes if they wait at the steel mill too long?

That was my problem previously - I only used one train, and delivered coal and iron one at a time, for months and months, but didn't get any iron.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:59 pm 
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I think I assumed that 2 trains would break the bank; I need to get more of a handle on how to run an efficient biz!
Thanks both - can't wait to get to play again!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:10 pm 
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Werebear wrote:
Do we have to consider potential decay of the cargoes if they wait at the steel mill too long?

Yes; any cargo will eventually be lost if it is produced and not picked up. Have a flatbed train wait at the mill (not necessarily at the same station) and tell it to wait for a full load of steel, and you will collect every bit that is produced.

Also, as you will see in the second recent screenshot, it is not necessary to tell a vehicle to unload its cargo at its destination as long as that station accepts it.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:23 pm 
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How are you guys financing this - taking loans? Is there no need to worry about that side of things?
As an aside, could this work:
Build a cargo depot midway between the coal and ore mines, and have a truck from each delivering to this common depot. Then build a trainline from this depot to the steel mill to deliver the combined goods, and carry steel on to the factory..? So a combination of road and rail, only requiring one train...


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:11 pm 
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I'm going to assume that I'm doing what I do out of inexperience, so don't count on my thoughts to be particularly valid.

That said - yes, I think what you proposed would work. (I'm going to try it, just for fun, and see what happens).

Build a station, and park a train there, waiting for coal and iron, and not leaving until it is full.

Put a truck depot near enough to the station to be part of the station, and then order trucks to drop off both coal and iron.

I think you'd need to order the trucks to empty their cargo so that the station would hold it.

When the train is full, it should go to the steel mill, and make steel right then and there. I do think if you get a mismatch, you are will only get as much steel as you brought of whichever resource you brought the least of, but that's probably not that big a deal.

As to how I finance it - I've actually worked to pay off all of my debts first, before I do anything else. It really bothers me to see that much money being paid out for my starting capital.

I've only done the Easy scenarios so far, but I've completed each one, and a couple I restarted a few times before I got it right.

But in every case, I found the interest to be crippling, so I simply paid it off as my first priority, and then saved up money for anything I wanted.

Again, more experienced players probably do something different. I find that some simple bus routes in a concentrated area have let me pay off my initial debt in less than 5 years, most of the time.

Hope that helps!

Russell


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:50 pm 
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Yes, you can take out loans. Manage your finances by tapping your current funds. You can also take out more money whenever you run out; if you attempt to purchase something too expensive, you will be asked if you would like to increase your loan.

---

I wouldn't recommend that, because you'd be losing money on the trucks. Keep in mind that every vehicle has a running cost. Just have two separate trains deliver two separate resources.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:09 am 
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Hooray, that worked (the trains, not the hopper trucks) - thank you both! I had two trains making deliveries to the steel mill, each with 5 wagons, and a train picking up steel with 2 wagons. 3 buses running between the towns. Managed to get up to 11.9% by 1928 - so satisfying!
I tried to add more wagons to the steel train, but couldn't work out how and managed to uncouple the 2 that we're on it in the process - does anyone know if that's possible?

Also my attempts to break the 12% ceiling faile - I added another bus, and a few more bus stops, and paid off my entire loan, but my perf index went down to 10%...

Okay on to the next scenario..!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:25 pm 
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I was also stuck on this, and that's why I registered. In between time I did find a solution, but it was quite slow. A few local bus services until debt is gone, and then I had 1 coal train, 1 iron ore train and 1 steel train. I tried this once without clearing the debt and the interest on the loans just bankrupt me.

In fact I've started now to repay the loan at the start, and only borrow as I go along, that can save a bit of cash in the early days.

I just met the AI in Desert Delirium, ouch!!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:37 pm 
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A useful tip: trams are great as moneybag fillers, and I believe they do raise the your performance index in the town (and consequently, your average performance as a whole). Additionally, they also speed up growth of the town dramatically.

Just as a secondary note (as I don't think you would be too concerned about this at the present), they also cause some (personally) aesthetically displeasing effects to the scenery -- that being the overgrowth of towns. Also becomes very troublesome to build subways if you haven't planned for it beforehand, unless there's a new way to not destroy buildings while in underground mode in the new game? Anyway, just keep a lookout for growth.

With the money problem pretty much solved, all you have to do is wait for your balance to rise and buy more trains to facilitate the cargo transportation.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:32 pm 
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I had it in my head that Trams were a much more expensive option, and I suppose in some ways they are.

I went back to some of the old scenarios and put in trams over the bus routes. I added rail pickups - they look just like bus pickups, but I was using the terminus instead (inexperience, I guess). I suspect if I'd been using bus pickups from the start, the same pickups would work for trams. (Can anyone confirm?)

Here is the good news, though. I saw several advantages to using trams over buses:
1) Trams don't get lost - they can only run on their tracks, so I didn't have trams wandering through neighborhoods trying to route to their stops.
2) Trams carry more passengers (at least the ones I've seen) than buses, which if your stations are getting over filled, means you increase your ratings by picking up more passengers.

However, I also noticed some disadvantages.
1) If a tram gets stuck, eventually you may find all of your trams getting stuck, which doesn't help anybody.
2) Trams do cost more money, since you add the rail on top of roads which you may have already built.
3) Trams can't pass each other

I had a couple of towns linked up with buses, but as the buses aged, they started breaking down everywhere. I replaced the entire bus system with trams, and saw my revenues increase dramatically.

With regards to money - I haven't had the debt bankrupt me yet, but I can see where it might happen. I just like knowing that I'm not losing money each month on interest - which I can then use to grow my company.

But you have to plant some money trees first, and buses/trams surely do make money grow on trees.

Thanks!

Russell


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:25 pm 
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Be careful with trams though. Just do your best to make sure that they don't share stops with buses, because when buses turn around, they completely reverse direction right at the bus stop. Trams will keep going in the same direction. If a tram is waiting for a bus to leave the station, it will get stuck, as will the rest of the trams on that line.

Another advantage of trams is that they attain their maximum speed faster because of their higher horsepower, although they are generally slower than buses.

Important: Your profits did not increase because you switched. They increased because you replaced old and broken vehicles. Once a vehicle's reliability has dropped significantly, just take it out of play and replace it (without deleting it). If you do this with a train, you only need to replace the locomotive.

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