Streets & Road Vehicles

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ClaudeS
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Re: Trolleybus

Post by ClaudeS »

smallfly wrote:
ClaudeS wrote:
smallfly wrote:Please provide some explaining pictures that clearly show how the trolleybuses should move relative to wires and roads.
I imagine something like this.

It also serve to old trams, that needs Trolleypoles, new trams use pantograph, probably the alghoritm will be different.
As far as I know, you are referring to an outdated type of trolley switches, where the vehicle has to turn in order to "activate" the switch. If trolleys find its way into P1SIM, only modern switches will be used. I talk about those, which can be triggered using infrared technology or something similiar. Thus the complicated route of your vehicle will not be needed. The trolleys will always drive below the catenary - or if they want/need to - on a neighbored lane.
The route I have drawed in the previous post is a example of the movement of the poles, the bus turn left before the switch because the pathfinder in this case, believe that is the better path, not by the switch force it (this type of switch is really very old, even here in são paulo that the system is old as hell the switch control is another: consumption, the driver throttle the bus and a consum meter in the switch assumes the side the driver want to go, is ridiculous but we still use that)

Also, I always understand that "trolley" is a streetcar, and "trolleybus" is a electric bus...

When you said trolley you is talking about trolleybus, right?

I figured that because this stretch:
The trolleys will always drive below the catenary - or if they want/need to - on a neighbored lane.
Trolleys (trams) don't change lanes, so I suppose that you was talking about trolleybus. Anyway, I dont know if in english culture, trolley is a synonim to trolleybus too. Seems to be.
Whatever... until now i was confused. living and learning.

What I had suggested is something dedicated to trolleybuses, something that can change lanes of road, in the radius of one lane around the wire.

In OpenTTD, play with a Trolleybus with "Trolleybus Set" and play with some random tram don't have any difference, the alghoritm is the same... If the vehicle in the front of the trolleybus have broken. the trolleybus simply stop, in real life, it overtakes. Is about it I was talking about.
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smallfly
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Re: Trolleybus

Post by smallfly »

ClaudeS wrote:When you said trolley you is talking about trolleybus, right?
I just said trolley instead of trolley bus because I refer to trolley buses AND trolley trucks. English is not my mother tongue. I don't know whether trolley and trams are synonyms. But if I talk about trams I would say "trams". Nothing else. (I wouldnt even say streetcar)
Trolleys (trams) don't change lanes, so I suppose that you was talking about trolleybus. (...) What I had suggested is something dedicated to trolleybuses, something that can change lanes of road, in the radius of one lane around the wire.
Exactly. The "trolley" I am planning to implement will be the trolleybus system you know. (One difference: A special acceleration of the bus wont be needed to change lanes. As already said, this will happen via infrared or something similar.)
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Re: Trolleybus

Post by damerell »

smallfly wrote:I just said trolley instead of trolley bus because I refer to trolley buses AND trolley trucks. English is not my mother tongue. I don't know whether trolley and trams are synonyms. But if I talk about trams I would say "trams". Nothing else. (I wouldnt even say streetcar.
In American English a "trolley" can mean a tram (for the avoidance of doubt, a light rail vehicle travelling on streets). Not so in British English. As far as I know "tram" is clear; "trolleybus" is clear; "trolley" is a word best avoided.
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by smallfly »

and how to summarize trolleybuses and trolleytrucks in one word?
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by damerell »

smallfly wrote:and how to summarize trolleybuses and trolleytrucks in one word?
I know of no such word, and wikipedia has no obvious suggestions.
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by ClaudeS »

trolley-road-vehicles?
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by oberhümer »

Catenary road vehicles, pantograph road vehicles?
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by ClaudeS »

Trolley is better, pantographs refers to the classic ballon collector or the z shaped one

It is a pantograph

[img]http://chestofbooks.com/craf[ts/popular-mechanics/Things-To-Make/images/Details-of-simple-pantograph.jpg[/img]

trolley (pole) is more specificous, a bar connected to a wire
but if only it can also be understood as a tram, it is why I suggest to include "road vehicle" in the final
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by smallfly »

ClaudeS wrote:trolley-road-vehicles?
too long
oberhümer wrote:Catenary road vehicles
too long

I think I will just use the term "trolley trucks" for the paths. Of course trolley buses will also be able to use these paths.
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by LocoMH »

TRVs, Trolley Road Vehicles...
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by YNM »

Hmmh, Electrified Road Vehicles ? Trams are trains basically, and so no interfering.
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by smallfly »

Yoursnotmine wrote:Hmmh, Electrified Road Vehicles ? Trams are trains basically, and so no interfering.
electried road vehicles dont necessarily need poles plus catenary to work (i.e. battery powered)
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by YNM »

smallfly wrote: electried road vehicles dont necessarily need poles plus catenary to work (i.e. battery powered)
Well, as long as this I think and accept an "electrified vehicles" get its power from external electric source, eg. 3rd rail, 4th rail or overhead catenary or simple wires. Battery means that they get the electric source within themself, just the same as a diesel-electric locomotive that actually burn diesel fuel to power a generator, then the genarator provide electricity for the traction motors (in case of battery, the generator and fuel is replaced by batteries). And they aren't "electrified vehicles".
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by robo »

Two intersections I made with CAtrain (strangely there's practically no other software which is able to do something like this apart from locomotion). Of course, the intersections don't make much sense for trains, but theoretically you could replace the railroads with one-way roads.
I would prefer this more "creative" approach to more realistic looking intersections, which would take up too much space in my opinion (you could take a look at simcity4 intersection mods that some people are trying, I don't like them). It shows the advantages of using the topdown view, but probably wouldn't work very good for isometric view.
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by YNM »

robo wrote: I would prefer this more "creative" approach to more realistic looking intersections, which would take up too much space in my opinion (you could take a look at simcity4 intersection mods that some people are trying, I don't like them).
I have made some smaller, quite realistic (enough) interchange with that mod - this shows that it isn't really huge :

Image

It just become huge 'cause they use the smooth curve thing... and mostly go for realistic :)
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by robo »

I don't know how functional your intersection really is, but you probably would get problems with pathfinding if you make intersections too large.
Vehicle movement in Simcity4 is 3D if I'm not wrong, this is the reason why you get smooth vehicle animations, in 2D you would have to avoid 90°-degree curves, for this reason the rotatable "switches" in Catrain are interesting in my opinion.
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by YNM »

robo wrote:I don't know how functional your intersection really is, but you probably would get problems with pathfinding if you make intersections too large.
Vehicle movement in Simcity4 is 3D if I'm not wrong, this is the reason why you get smooth vehicle animations, in 2D you would have to avoid 90°-degree curves, for this reason the rotatable "switches" in Catrain are interesting in my opinion.
My question : then what do you say about bridges there ? Isn't bridges is stacked over other ?

Likely, the design in SC4 for pathfinding is : the pathfinder calculate paths, and then checking the volume. end.
The game then generates cars depends on the volume and to smaller extent, paths on a tile / a road section. And so the cars graphics is not continuos, and may dissapear everywhere. (the new SimCity that will be released in 2013 will make the problem obsolete, but renders the calculation is much more heavier)

For P1SIM, now it depends on how smallfly will make it : if bended bridges and tunnel will exist (including direct intersection in there), then the pathfinder must be able to diferentiate levels. If it doesn't (like OpenTTD and the predessecors), then you don't need to make a level-sensitive pathfinder (maybe makes bridges and tunnels as "magic warp" - every path enters it will leave the end, no matter where its destionations is).
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smallfly
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by smallfly »

The P1SIM path finder is based on 3-dimensional modules. Not on tiles. Thus there is no need to worry. There is no problem with big curve radii, multi-level crossings etc. You can even build multiple straight tracks above each other facing the same direction. No problem.
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by YNM »

Ah, that renders the whole things is possible :D Good luck on finishing this !
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smallfly
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by smallfly »

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