Transport Tycoon Forums

The place to talk about Transport Tycoon
It is currently Thu May 24, 2018 10:05 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 134 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 3 4 57 Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Streets & Road Vehicles
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:51 pm 
Offline
Chairman
Chairman
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:29 pm
Posts: 858
Location: Germany
Still don't know how to manage the diagonal roads. While the diagonal tracks look ok by simply having more space between the tracks, the diagonal roads currently look strange :(

Attachment:
diagonal_preview.jpg
diagonal_preview.jpg [ 7.11 KiB | Viewed 8460 times ]

(larger version attached)


Attachments:
diagonal.png [121.09 KiB]
Downloaded 6 times

_________________
www.p1sim.org - P1SIM - Traffic, Logistics, City-Building & more
Join the discussions here on tt-forums.net!
Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:14 am 
Offline
Chief Executive
Chief Executive
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:45 pm
Posts: 655
Location: FRANCE
Here is a quick sketch I just did. Top right is what you did, top left is what ttd does with rail.

Bottom left and right are what looks best IMHO, and is still able to have adjacent diagonal roads. Maybe a simple way to have it is to only authorise diagonal roads for roads wide by a multiple of two (2 tiles wide, 4 tiles wide...) ; two tiles on the grid become sqrt(2) tiles diagonally, I think it is visually more pleasing.

Attachment:
Roads.png [34.99 KiB]
Downloaded 6 times

_________________
I am little, ugly, and nasty. How do you do?


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:03 am 
Offline
Chairman
Chairman
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:29 pm
Posts: 858
Location: Germany
referring to your bottom right layout: works fine for 2 * 45 = 90 degree curves. but not for +45 + -45 = 0 s-curves

Attachment:
s-curves.png
s-curves.png [ 57.02 KiB | Viewed 8433 times ]


Attachment:
scurves2.png
scurves2.png [ 90.31 KiB | Viewed 8433 times ]

_________________
www.p1sim.org - P1SIM - Traffic, Logistics, City-Building & more
Join the discussions here on tt-forums.net!


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:12 am 
Offline
Route Supervisor
Route Supervisor
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:14 pm
Posts: 393
I think diagonal tracks are indispensable for railroadtracks, but not really necessary for roads. Theoretically you can build all kind of crossings in locomotion just with the wide curve element.


Attachments:
motorway junction.png
motorway junction.png [ 42.51 KiB | Viewed 8423 times ]
Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:01 am 
Offline
Chairman
Chairman
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:29 pm
Posts: 858
Location: Germany
robo wrote:
I think diagonal tracks are indispensable for railroadtracks, but not really necessary for roads. Theoretically you can build all kind of crossings in locomotion just with the wide curve element.


True for crossing. But we need diagonal roads for certain terrain situations like the one shown in the attached image.
Attachment:
needed.png
needed.png [ 96.23 KiB | Viewed 8420 times ]

_________________
www.p1sim.org - P1SIM - Traffic, Logistics, City-Building & more
Join the discussions here on tt-forums.net!


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:19 am 
Offline
Chairman
Chairman
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:29 pm
Posts: 858
Location: Germany
i think this way it could work and also looks acceptable (?)

Attachment:
tileset_diagonalroads_v11_preview.png
tileset_diagonalroads_v11_preview.png [ 39.69 KiB | Viewed 8417 times ]

(larger version attached)


Attachments:
tileset_diagonalroads_v11.png [355.26 KiB]
Downloaded 6 times

_________________
www.p1sim.org - P1SIM - Traffic, Logistics, City-Building & more
Join the discussions here on tt-forums.net!
Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:25 am 
Offline
Chairman
Chairman
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:29 pm
Posts: 858
Location: Germany
even though the curves could get a bit critical for trucks...
Attachment:
trucks.png
trucks.png [ 25.02 KiB | Viewed 8416 times ]

_________________
www.p1sim.org - P1SIM - Traffic, Logistics, City-Building & more
Join the discussions here on tt-forums.net!


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:43 am 
Offline
OpenTTD Developer
OpenTTD Developer

Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:03 am
Posts: 4612
Location: home
smallfly wrote:
... But we need diagonal roads for certain terrain situations like the one shown in the attached image.
By that argument, 45 degrees is also not sufficient, you need all angles (it is easy to construct a landscape that fails for 90 and 45 degrees, but works for eg 20 degrees). In other words, stopping at 90 degrees is just as arbitrary as stopping at 45 degrees (although there is a diminishing profit of adding extra angles).


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:08 pm 
Offline
Chairman
Chairman
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:29 pm
Posts: 858
Location: Germany
Alberth wrote:
although there is a diminishing profit of adding extra angles

exactly. and having 45 degree steps is a good trade-off between many angles and less complexity

_________________
www.p1sim.org - P1SIM - Traffic, Logistics, City-Building & more
Join the discussions here on tt-forums.net!


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:43 pm 
Offline
Chairman
Chairman
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:29 pm
Posts: 858
Location: Germany
the new diagonal road layout works just fine with the module editor. there you can easily define vehicle movement path using bezier curves.

Attachment:
2012-08-03T23-38-05_preview.png
2012-08-03T23-38-05_preview.png [ 49.02 KiB | Viewed 8386 times ]

(larger version attached)


Attachments:
2012-08-03T23-38-05.png [277.68 KiB]
Downloaded 6 times

_________________
www.p1sim.org - P1SIM - Traffic, Logistics, City-Building & more
Join the discussions here on tt-forums.net!
Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:37 am 
Offline
Chairman
Chairman
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 4:21 pm
Posts: 845
Location: Dresden (formerly Ruhr Area)
Looking good, but wouldn't it be possible to also draw the roads ingame using bezier curves?

_________________
[REL] German n-Coaches
[REL] German n-Coaches "Silberlinge"
[REL] German Class 618 'Lirex' HQ REALLY GOOD!
[REL] Rhinegold coaches


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:25 am 
Offline
Chairman
Chairman
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:29 pm
Posts: 858
Location: Germany
LocoMH wrote:
Looking good, but wouldn't it be possible to also draw the roads ingame using bezier curves?

With bezier curves you could draw an unlimited amount of differently looking road curves. The needed graphics couldn't be simple 2D graphics which are placed as they are, but 3D technologies like polygons filled with road textures would be required => complicated to code.

Another even more important aspect: I like the clean style of P1SIM. All graphics are following the grid. Even the the diagonal ones. With bezier curves I would leave the clean style philosophy.

_________________
www.p1sim.org - P1SIM - Traffic, Logistics, City-Building & more
Join the discussions here on tt-forums.net!


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:31 am 
Offline
Tycoon
Tycoon
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:55 pm
Posts: 2232
Location: West Midlands
My only qualm, one that many games seem to suffer from, is that curves here in the UK at least don't have solid lines. Can this be rectified?

_________________
Last known as: Weirdy


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:36 am 
Offline
Chairman
Chairman
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:29 pm
Posts: 858
Location: Germany
SkeedR wrote:
My only qualm, one that many games seem to suffer from, is that curves here in the UK at least don't have solid lines. Can this be rectified?

Since P1SIM loads its sprites from 1024x1024 unencrypted PNG images, it is very easy to generate new sprite sets, containing localized roads, tracks, vehicles...

_________________
www.p1sim.org - P1SIM - Traffic, Logistics, City-Building & more
Join the discussions here on tt-forums.net!


Top
   
 Post subject: Trolleybus
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:25 pm 
Offline
Engineer
Engineer

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:46 pm
Posts: 9
You want to implement trolleybus in future?
I think it will look very cool in you top-down view, without a mega-complexity, but it need to be coded in this stage of development, because very probably without a mod API it will not look cool, this feature needs code additions, not only sprites additions.

Why?

With the tools that you will provide, from what i supose, will only be possible to make new vehicle types that depends of a single track, in this case, the Trolleybus track (the wires) and the Trolleybus vehicle (the trolleybus), and the movement of the vehicle will fully depend of the tracks, but trolleybus is a different vehicle, unlike vehicles like trams that fully depends of the track, and buses that fully depends of the road, the Trolleybus depend of the road AND the wire. So, if you code a algorithm for the content creator that avaiables for the modder a vehicle that depends of two tracks, it will be very good.

If you not understand the needing of it in a Trolleybus, here a example:
The trolleybus is under the wire, the wire is in the track at right on the road, the road have 2 tracks. 4 tiles ahead, have a switch, and 5 tiles ahead have a junction like this:

Image

If the trolleybus only depends of the wire, I supose it will turn on the left blinker two tiles before the switch, and will turn to the left track AND the left wire at the same time, in the switch, what is unreal. beyond it, probably the movement of go to the left track of the road will be very strange, because the connection of the trolleybus with the wire is the trolley pole, and the trolleybus will not depend of the road, probably will be possible to the trolleybus run in the grass, if have a wire in that (what in real life is also possible but... buses also can run in the grass in the real life but in openttd it can't run in the grass...)...

If you implement what i said above, with the trolleybus depending of the road and the wire and in the same situation, the trolleybus will turn on the left blinker now (four tiles before the switch), will goes to the left track of the road, (and the trolley pole will be in a angle of something like 30º to right, connecting the bus with the wire), in the switch, the trolley pole will go with the wire to the left, and two tiles before the junction, the trolleybus will be under the wire again.

Understand why you need to think in that in this stage of development?

Congratulations by your game, I hope you have success with it, and good luck

And sorry by my rubbish english, I am danish but I live in Brazil since my 2 two years old.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Trolleybus
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:42 pm 
Offline
Chairman
Chairman
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:29 pm
Posts: 858
Location: Germany
ClaudeS wrote:
(...) implement trolleybus (...) depend of the road AND the wire (...)

First of all: You really seem to like trolleybuses ;)

The concept could be interesting since trucks could also use the technique: see here

Please provide some explaining pictures that clearly show how the trolleybuses should move relative to wires and roads.

_________________
www.p1sim.org - P1SIM - Traffic, Logistics, City-Building & more
Join the discussions here on tt-forums.net!


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Trolleybus
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:17 pm 
Offline
Engineer
Engineer

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:46 pm
Posts: 9
smallfly wrote:
First of all: You really seem to like trolleybuses ;)


Ow, yeah, I really like Trolleybus :)
And the the people of the east europe too...

Here in Brazil it has been scrapped in 90s together the privatizations (the maintaining price is higher), and here in São Paulo have the bigger system of America Latina (180 vehicles, 13 lines), but the quality of this system (maintaning and updates: the substations still uses mercury arc valve to get an ideia) is so bad that the people want to it be replaced by diesel buses.

But in the USSR former countries, thanks to their energy policy, there was a great appeal to the trolleybus (as we know, electric motors have a bigger efficiency), so, probably the people of these side of world probably will like this feature.

The only Trolleybus related games of driving has been "SimTR" and "Bus & Cable Car Simulator", and no game of logistics management offers trolleybus as a native feature. OpenTTD and Simutrans have 3rd party contents related with trolleybus but does not have the quality of something made from the game conception, it is simply a newGRF/Pak.

smallfly wrote:
Please provide some explaining pictures that clearly show how the trolleybuses should move relative to wires and roads.


Ok, I will made it now, but quickly, if you have a road of, per example, 2 lanes, when you create the road, you will need connect the four dots in a cross for enable the vehicles to change lanes, or the vehicle made it by itself, automatically?


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:22 am 
Offline
Chairman
Chairman
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:29 pm
Posts: 858
Location: Germany
Attachment:
trolleys.jpg
trolleys.jpg [ 93.89 KiB | Viewed 7891 times ]

_________________
www.p1sim.org - P1SIM - Traffic, Logistics, City-Building & more
Join the discussions here on tt-forums.net!


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Trolleybus
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:05 am 
Offline
Engineer
Engineer

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:46 pm
Posts: 9
smallfly wrote:
Please provide some explaining pictures that clearly show how the trolleybuses should move relative to wires and roads.


I imagine something like this.

It also serve to old trams, that needs Trolleypoles, new trams use pantograph, probably the alghoritm will be different.


Attachments:
trolleybus wire with bus-p1sim.png
trolleybus wire with bus-p1sim.png [ 17.86 KiB | Viewed 7871 times ]
Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Trolleybus
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:02 am 
Offline
Chairman
Chairman
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:29 pm
Posts: 858
Location: Germany
ClaudeS wrote:
smallfly wrote:
Please provide some explaining pictures that clearly show how the trolleybuses should move relative to wires and roads.


I imagine something like this.

It also serve to old trams, that needs Trolleypoles, new trams use pantograph, probably the alghoritm will be different.


As far as I know, you are referring to an outdated type of trolley switches, where the vehicle has to turn in order to "activate" the switch. If trolleys find its way into P1SIM, only modern switches will be used. I talk about those, which can be triggered using infrared technology or something similiar. Thus the complicated route of your vehicle will not be needed. The trolleys will always drive below the catenary - or if they want/need to - on a neighbored lane.

_________________
www.p1sim.org - P1SIM - Traffic, Logistics, City-Building & more
Join the discussions here on tt-forums.net!


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 134 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 3 4 57 Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000-2018 phpBB Limited

Copyright © Owen Rudge/The Transport Tycoon Forums 2001-2018.
Hosted by Zernebok Hosting.