Streets & Road Vehicles

P1SIM is a commercial game under development featuring traffic, logistics, city building and more.
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smallfly
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Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by smallfly » 02 Aug 2012 20:51

Still don't know how to manage the diagonal roads. While the diagonal tracks look ok by simply having more space between the tracks, the diagonal roads currently look strange :(
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by cmoiromain » 03 Aug 2012 03:14

Here is a quick sketch I just did. Top right is what you did, top left is what ttd does with rail.

Bottom left and right are what looks best IMHO, and is still able to have adjacent diagonal roads. Maybe a simple way to have it is to only authorise diagonal roads for roads wide by a multiple of two (2 tiles wide, 4 tiles wide...) ; two tiles on the grid become sqrt(2) tiles diagonally, I think it is visually more pleasing.
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by smallfly » 03 Aug 2012 09:03

referring to your bottom right layout: works fine for 2 * 45 = 90 degree curves. but not for +45 + -45 = 0 s-curves
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by robo » 03 Aug 2012 10:12

I think diagonal tracks are indispensable for railroadtracks, but not really necessary for roads. Theoretically you can build all kind of crossings in locomotion just with the wide curve element.
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by smallfly » 03 Aug 2012 11:01

robo wrote:I think diagonal tracks are indispensable for railroadtracks, but not really necessary for roads. Theoretically you can build all kind of crossings in locomotion just with the wide curve element.
True for crossing. But we need diagonal roads for certain terrain situations like the one shown in the attached image.
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by smallfly » 03 Aug 2012 11:19

i think this way it could work and also looks acceptable (?)
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by smallfly » 03 Aug 2012 11:25

even though the curves could get a bit critical for trucks...
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by Alberth » 03 Aug 2012 11:43

smallfly wrote:... But we need diagonal roads for certain terrain situations like the one shown in the attached image.
By that argument, 45 degrees is also not sufficient, you need all angles (it is easy to construct a landscape that fails for 90 and 45 degrees, but works for eg 20 degrees). In other words, stopping at 90 degrees is just as arbitrary as stopping at 45 degrees (although there is a diminishing profit of adding extra angles).

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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by smallfly » 03 Aug 2012 12:08

Alberth wrote:although there is a diminishing profit of adding extra angles
exactly. and having 45 degree steps is a good trade-off between many angles and less complexity
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by smallfly » 03 Aug 2012 21:43

the new diagonal road layout works just fine with the module editor. there you can easily define vehicle movement path using bezier curves.
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by LocoMH » 05 Aug 2012 08:37

Looking good, but wouldn't it be possible to also draw the roads ingame using bezier curves?

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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by smallfly » 05 Aug 2012 09:25

LocoMH wrote:Looking good, but wouldn't it be possible to also draw the roads ingame using bezier curves?
With bezier curves you could draw an unlimited amount of differently looking road curves. The needed graphics couldn't be simple 2D graphics which are placed as they are, but 3D technologies like polygons filled with road textures would be required => complicated to code.

Another even more important aspect: I like the clean style of P1SIM. All graphics are following the grid. Even the the diagonal ones. With bezier curves I would leave the clean style philosophy.
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by SkeedR » 05 Aug 2012 09:31

My only qualm, one that many games seem to suffer from, is that curves here in the UK at least don't have solid lines. Can this be rectified?
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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by smallfly » 05 Aug 2012 09:36

SkeedR wrote:My only qualm, one that many games seem to suffer from, is that curves here in the UK at least don't have solid lines. Can this be rectified?
Since P1SIM loads its sprites from 1024x1024 unencrypted PNG images, it is very easy to generate new sprite sets, containing localized roads, tracks, vehicles...
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Trolleybus

Post by ClaudeS » 28 Sep 2012 12:25

You want to implement trolleybus in future?
I think it will look very cool in you top-down view, without a mega-complexity, but it need to be coded in this stage of development, because very probably without a mod API it will not look cool, this feature needs code additions, not only sprites additions.

Why?

With the tools that you will provide, from what i supose, will only be possible to make new vehicle types that depends of a single track, in this case, the Trolleybus track (the wires) and the Trolleybus vehicle (the trolleybus), and the movement of the vehicle will fully depend of the tracks, but trolleybus is a different vehicle, unlike vehicles like trams that fully depends of the track, and buses that fully depends of the road, the Trolleybus depend of the road AND the wire. So, if you code a algorithm for the content creator that avaiables for the modder a vehicle that depends of two tracks, it will be very good.

If you not understand the needing of it in a Trolleybus, here a example:
The trolleybus is under the wire, the wire is in the track at right on the road, the road have 2 tracks. 4 tiles ahead, have a switch, and 5 tiles ahead have a junction like this:

Image

If the trolleybus only depends of the wire, I supose it will turn on the left blinker two tiles before the switch, and will turn to the left track AND the left wire at the same time, in the switch, what is unreal. beyond it, probably the movement of go to the left track of the road will be very strange, because the connection of the trolleybus with the wire is the trolley pole, and the trolleybus will not depend of the road, probably will be possible to the trolleybus run in the grass, if have a wire in that (what in real life is also possible but... buses also can run in the grass in the real life but in openttd it can't run in the grass...)...

If you implement what i said above, with the trolleybus depending of the road and the wire and in the same situation, the trolleybus will turn on the left blinker now (four tiles before the switch), will goes to the left track of the road, (and the trolley pole will be in a angle of something like 30º to right, connecting the bus with the wire), in the switch, the trolley pole will go with the wire to the left, and two tiles before the junction, the trolleybus will be under the wire again.

Understand why you need to think in that in this stage of development?

Congratulations by your game, I hope you have success with it, and good luck

And sorry by my rubbish english, I am danish but I live in Brazil since my 2 two years old.

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Re: Trolleybus

Post by smallfly » 28 Sep 2012 12:42

ClaudeS wrote:(...) implement trolleybus (...) depend of the road AND the wire (...)
First of all: You really seem to like trolleybuses ;)

The concept could be interesting since trucks could also use the technique: see here

Please provide some explaining pictures that clearly show how the trolleybuses should move relative to wires and roads.
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Re: Trolleybus

Post by ClaudeS » 28 Sep 2012 14:17

smallfly wrote:First of all: You really seem to like trolleybuses ;)
Ow, yeah, I really like Trolleybus :)
And the the people of the east europe too...

Here in Brazil it has been scrapped in 90s together the privatizations (the maintaining price is higher), and here in São Paulo have the bigger system of America Latina (180 vehicles, 13 lines), but the quality of this system (maintaning and updates: the substations still uses mercury arc valve to get an ideia) is so bad that the people want to it be replaced by diesel buses.

But in the USSR former countries, thanks to their energy policy, there was a great appeal to the trolleybus (as we know, electric motors have a bigger efficiency), so, probably the people of these side of world probably will like this feature.

The only Trolleybus related games of driving has been "SimTR" and "Bus & Cable Car Simulator", and no game of logistics management offers trolleybus as a native feature. OpenTTD and Simutrans have 3rd party contents related with trolleybus but does not have the quality of something made from the game conception, it is simply a newGRF/Pak.
smallfly wrote:Please provide some explaining pictures that clearly show how the trolleybuses should move relative to wires and roads.
Ok, I will made it now, but quickly, if you have a road of, per example, 2 lanes, when you create the road, you will need connect the four dots in a cross for enable the vehicles to change lanes, or the vehicle made it by itself, automatically?

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Re: Streets & Road Vehicles

Post by smallfly » 29 Sep 2012 00:22

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Re: Trolleybus

Post by ClaudeS » 29 Sep 2012 07:05

smallfly wrote:Please provide some explaining pictures that clearly show how the trolleybuses should move relative to wires and roads.
I imagine something like this.

It also serve to old trams, that needs Trolleypoles, new trams use pantograph, probably the alghoritm will be different.
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Re: Trolleybus

Post by smallfly » 29 Sep 2012 11:02

ClaudeS wrote:
smallfly wrote:Please provide some explaining pictures that clearly show how the trolleybuses should move relative to wires and roads.
I imagine something like this.

It also serve to old trams, that needs Trolleypoles, new trams use pantograph, probably the alghoritm will be different.
As far as I know, you are referring to an outdated type of trolley switches, where the vehicle has to turn in order to "activate" the switch. If trolleys find its way into P1SIM, only modern switches will be used. I talk about those, which can be triggered using infrared technology or something similiar. Thus the complicated route of your vehicle will not be needed. The trolleys will always drive below the catenary - or if they want/need to - on a neighbored lane.
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