Concept Phase Oct09-May12

[smallfly]

Info: Added two new sketches to the beginning of this thread (one showing building fire, demonstration, bus lanes, emergency lanes; the other one showing tram tracks).

[Zuu]

I don't want to pack you on all my choices, but if you have a specific need then I'd give you some more tips. Also keep in mind that you always have the choice to implement things yourself which is sometimes a better choice because of the higher level of control.

I programmed websites (inclusive cms) many years and always wanted to program everything on my own. In the last years I started to use finished modules like a wysiwyg text area based editor, file management systems etc.

I will try to use libraries for all cases that are not performance relevant (loading, saving, editoring, settings etc.) Which helper library do you prefer (it using one) (I think you mean a collection of common functions needed when realizing a game?)

You would need something ontop of SDL to draw lines, shapes, text etc. Unless you plan to just blit loaded images. Myself I have my self-implemented bunch of functions for that, but there are a few libraries out there I think.

If you are going to use callbacks, then you might want to use a callback library such as sigc++ or the one in boost.

Windows, you said you are going to implement the window system better than OpenTTD. Another option is to use a library for this. Either have the windows float around your drawing area by using eg. wxWidgets or get something that draws and handles the windows inside your SDL window. All options has their benefits and drawbacks.

[KillerMapper]

It will not be comparable to OTTD. In P1 every citizen will have an identity: A citizen has a flat, a job, a car. Every citizen knows exactly where he wants to go to and uses the fastest/cheapest way to work/shopping/vacationing etc. Together with all those nice features like timetabling, shared orders, etc. you wont miss anything in that game

(Its easy philosophize as long as there is no real game but only a concept )

Ok I see, good luck for that so

I don't know how will be your cities (about the size), but maybe you can include in the game subways. Also, I hope that your game will allow curved tunnels.

You use the SDL? I tried to program with it too, but never finished anything lol.

[smallfly]

I don't know how will be your cities (about the size), but maybe you can include in the game subways. Also, I hope that your game will allow curved tunnels.

Cities will be gigantic compared to ottd. Even a standard city street (2 lanes, one for each direction + sidewalks) will be 4 tiles broad. There will be parking lots, trams on dedicated areas, fire departments, police stations, touristic buildings etc. The intra-city-transport will get a completely new handling compared to ottd. You could play 10 hours, just to build a nice intra-city transport system with buses, taxis, trams, subways, railways etc. Curved tunnels are possible, too. But not the way you imagine that All infrastructure can also be built underground! So that you can have complex street crossings, whole railway stations etc. underground.

You use the SDL? I tried to program with it too, but never finished anything lol.

I also tried it a year ago. I got something to work, but i stopped my projects because of performance issues (I think I did something inefficient with the SDL surface, blitted to often and so on)

[Kevo00]

This sounds like it could be very nice, like a sort of Traffic Giant with changing demographics, combined with a more playable version of A-Train. My only thought would be that if each citizen has to have a block of their own (even though a very small block) surely it would be quite difficult to achieve realistic traffic densities? Also as an Economic Historian to make the changes that you suggest will happen over time appear realistic I would suggest you consider incorporating some technological change - games that take no account of it played over 20+ year periods feel quite unrealistic. Also, technological change and economic change are often related.

I won't hold my breath, but I do hope you finish this one day, as a transport game that makes full use of modern computing capacity and which is worth playing is sorely needed.

[smallfly]

My only thought would be that if each citizen has to have a block of their own (even though a very small block) surely it would be quite difficult to achieve realistic traffic densities?

Thats a good question. I will try to answer that one with a sketch.

traffic.jpg (80.51 KiB) Viewed 6497 times

The buildings are one 1 (!) block high and as you can see the buildings have lots of grass and trees around. I painted all cars on the roads that are generated by the 7 buildings. I think the density is fine. If not: You can build higher buildings or put more space between them. (depending on whether you want to increase or decrease traffic density)

[smallfly]

Added a sketch of road works (see beginning of this thread)

[Dante123]

........ (at least not now, in the year 2009; but perhaps in 2020 when the game is finished ).......

are you planning to include some option in the game like the openttd daylength patch ?

same question for a copy/paste function.

[smallfly]

........ (at least not now, in the year 2009; but perhaps in 2020 when the game is finished ).......

are you planning to include some option in the game like the openttd daylength patch ?

same question for a copy/paste function.

copy/paste and daylength patches are additional features that dont compete with other ones. and because they are useful, both will be included.

[KillerMapper]

Cities will be gigantic compared to ottd. Even a standard city street (2 lanes, one for each direction + sidewalks) will be 4 tiles broad. There will be parking lots, trams on dedicated areas, fire departments, police stations, touristic buildings etc. The intra-city-transport will get a completely new handling compared to ottd. You could play 10 hours, just to build a nice intra-city transport system with buses, taxis, trams, subways, railways etc. Curved tunnels are possible, too. But not the way you imagine that All infrastructure can also be built underground! So that you can have complex street crossings, whole railway stations etc. underground.

It's even better than I thought! I always wanted a game were you can build and manage passengers transports in a big city with buses, subway, trams, regional trains...
So a tile can be used for: a road lane, a pavement, a railroad... if I'm good?
And I see that it's possible to dedicate a lane for buses or emergency only, I love this feature

Good point for the underground infrastructure. OTTD wasn't really good with that, only direct tunnels, and impossibility to pass a tunnel above/under another tunnel, so hope your game will fix that too.

[smallfly]

So a tile can be used for: a road lane, a pavement, a railroad... if I'm good?

Thats the way the map will function. Everything will be normed to tile size, but track modules consist of multiple tiles, and some vehicles are longer than one tile (train wagons/engines, trucks with trailers, planes, ships ...)

and impossibility to pass a tunnel above/under another tunnel, so hope your game will fix that too.

In P1 you can have as many underground levels as you like. So you can build roads, tracks, and even taxiways of airports (!) underground and crossing each other.

[KillerMapper]

Ok. Yeah I understood that modules will take multiple tiles, this tile system is a nice idea, it allows better precision on the builds.

Underground airports?



So finally your game is like a city builder, but more axed on transports. You can build roads but not houses, buildings... (except the structures like stations, depots...). That can be very interesting.

[smallfly]

So finally your game is like a city builder, but more axed on transports. You can build roads but not houses, buildings... (except the structures like stations, depots...). That can be very interesting.

You can also build appartment houses, if you want to spend your money on them. Then - of course - you get the rental payments (or how do you call them?!). And if the city needs more police departments/fire departments you can also build them and your investment will get repayed after a while because of the payments you get from the city for that building.

BUT: The city building is not the main part of the game. Its more like a game-in-the-game for people like to build cities where other people build transport system in That will make it possible that simcity players meet ottd players as well as traffic giant & industry giant players.

P1 will be a game for everyone that likes to play logistics and other construction games, but doesnt need to have the best graphics to have fun with that topic.

Underground airports?

The code will be very flexible. So you will be able to build a complete underground airport. (Some parts of the runway have to be open of course; especially the parts at the end of it, where the planes really would like to gain some height see picture below )

undergroundairport.jpg (67.57 KiB) Viewed 6477 times

Is that realistic?! Would that function?

[Sarvesh50]

Simcity fused with transport tycoon i like the kind of idea i played the two games but i missed always something.
But it would be great to see a real living city an not only you own vechiles and the one of the other company.

[smallfly]

Simcity fused with transport tycoon i like the kind of idea i played the two games but i missed always something.
But it would be great to see a real living city an not only you own vechiles and the one of the other company.

Me the same. In Simcity I missed a complex transport system. In Transport Tycoon I missed a good city building possibilty. In both games I missed individuums (cars that dont appear randomly but act logically, find a parking lot, drive to work, etc)

[Dante123]

well, maybe 1 more good idea i formed thanx to the 2cc set in ottd.

Metro's.

will you add them ?
will there also be some way to build underground ? so not only straight tunnels, but actual infrastructure ?

[KillerMapper]

Me the same. In Simcity I missed a complex transport system. In Transport Tycoon I missed a good city building possibilty. In both games I missed individuums (cars that dont appear randomly but act logically, find a parking lot, drive to work, etc)

Same.

@Dante123: I already asked about metro (it's like the subways). and he said yes And he said that you can build everything underground too.

That will be awesome! I'm already imagining me building a big railroad complex under a big city ^^

[smallfly]

That will be awesome! I'm already imagining me building a big railroad complex under a big city ^^

undergroundview.jpg (74.21 KiB) Viewed 6523 times

Thats how the integrated underground view works. You can mark areas and say "please show me level -1 of the marked area" so that you see an integrated underground view of that area. Around that area you still see level 0. You can activate multiple integrated underground views at the same time and you can also save defined areas, so that you can jump to that view whenever you want to visit your first gigantic underground railway station under a big city

[KillerMapper]

Nice

Ha, about stations, with the tile system, it can be possible to create stations like we want no? Like, one tile for the platform where passengers wait the train, and around it 2 railroads; or 2 railroads with 2 platforms around...

[Benny]

Wow, this really sounds too good to be(come) true.