US Set available [Trains v0.87.4d released 27 April 2008]

batis2ta · Post by **batis2ta** » 12 Jul 2004 22:00

Great set!
I only had 20 minutes to look at it last night but I was very impressed nonetheless.

I have one suggestion, however.
There are so many locomotives in the US set, and I am not that much of a rail enthusiast. So I thought it would be very handy if the loco names gave some indication of their intended use (i.e. F for Freight, P for Pass or U for Universal).
Of course, I could check with the Readme every time something new gets "invented" but I'm lazy.

Post by **uzurpator** » 12 Jul 2004 22:05

Use you brain

Locos with high tractive effort, but low speed are for freight
Locos with low tractive effort, but high speed are for passangers
So-So on speed and tracitve effort, are for mixed use
EMUs/DMUs are for meat (obviously)

norfolksouthern37 · Post by **norfolksouthern37** » 12 Jul 2004 22:07

i dont see the high hood sd40
did that get dropped?
im just wondering its really no big deal, but it is my fav type of loco.

Raichase · Post by **Raichase** » 12 Jul 2004 22:25

Kudos to the team for getting the next version out so fast! This is a fun set, I'm gunna go have another crack at it today

.

As to the uses of the locos, I keep a printout of the vehicles table next to me at all times until I am used to a new set... It's what I still do for the DB Set, and it saves many mistakes and time!

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 12 Jul 2004 22:29

John wrote: basically us locs in uk would suck, and the same vise versa...

Actually, not necessarily. We gave the Brits some old steam locos during WW2 because theirs were so beat up, and they performed pretty decently there. Also we borrowed some of their better express steam locos for a demo and friendship tour, and they worked rather well.

John wrote:you should add mammothtrains on to the variables to set in ttdpatch.cfg!!!

Good point, you are quite right. And longerstations too I suppose.

The high-hood SD40 caused problems because it was too hard to tell apart from the rest of the too-similar diesels. It might resurface though, there have been thoughts of adding more random liveries to the diesel locos.

We are NOT inviting suggestions for additional locos at this time. For heaven's sake, you don't have enough already?!?! Seriously, though, you can hardly use them all in one game as it is, why would we draw and add more if they'd rarely or never be used? It's overkill.

DanMacK · Post by **DanMacK** » 13 Jul 2004 00:10

norfolksouthern37 wrote:i dont see the high hood sd40
did that get dropped?
im just wondering its really no big deal, but it is my fav type of loco.

Didn't get dropped, just haven't gotten around to finishing it yet. That livery will be the first I repaint the SD40-2 into after I finish the other dozen things I'm looking for

Look for a HH SD40-2 in the official (1.0) Release. It'll sure look sweet heading up those Triple Crowns

Always loved the look of NS's HH Bricks, shame we pretty much only see C44-9W's up here in Ontario now. Once in awhile we'll see something cool though.
=====================
KRTaylor, it may be overkill, but damn the drawing is almost as addicting as the playing

That and yes we've got A LOT of locos, but some people may not want to use Western locos in the Temperate climate. Some eastern roads had Challengers, so that's not an issue, but the Allegheny will sub for the Cab Forward and Big Boy if I'm running in the Blue Ridge

Now what were you saying about the J?

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 13 Jul 2004 00:51

I might as well ask it now. I don't expect answers, but everyone can be thinking about this:

Would it be a good idea to disable certain locos in certain environments? For instance, the Big Boy is only available in the Tropics. In the Temperate, you get an Allegheny instead. That would allow us to include more trains, while still not swamping the list in any one game.

Raichase · Post by **Raichase** » 13 Jul 2004 01:48

krtaylor wrote:I might as well ask it now. I don't expect answers, but everyone can be thinking about this:

Would it be a good idea to disable certain locos in certain environments? For instance, the Big Boy is only available in the Tropics. In the Temperate, you get an Allegheny instead. That would allow us to include more trains, while still not swamping the list in any one game.

I think that if the artists are up to it, this would be an excellent idea. I mean, I was very pleased to see the set customisable to be used in different climates, and flavouring the set to depend on the climate would be one of the best ideas ever. You could take out the loco's that don't really fit, and put in ones more found in the area. That would mean that playing different climates dictates the type of vehicles you can use, as it used to be, and how it should be.

Again, if the artists are up for it, I think it is a great idea!

Crahn · Post by **Crahn** » 13 Jul 2004 03:03

Hi there.
First off, i would like to commend the excellent work on the US Set. Ive been following its progress for a long time, and you chose the best day to release it to the public! (My Birthday!)
I have found a couple of bugs for you guys to work on.

The first is much like the coal wagon bug that Cornelius discovered. The Woodchip Car in its first loading state (10 tonne - 20 tonne) is 2 pixels too low in the view on the attached image; not sure about other directional views. All the other loading states (empty - 9 tonne, 21 - 25 tonne & 26 - full) are all correct.

The second and most important thing i have noticed is regarding Passengers & Mail. Usually, with gradualloading switch on, passengers & mail unload & load by 5's just like freight does. This is good as it allows the passengers that arrive at the station while the train is unloading time to get on board. It also adds a little realism. I have noticed with the US Set, however, that the loading & unloading of passengers is instantaneous, even though i have gradualloading on & my freighters do load gradually. To me this seems like a bug, not sure if it is, but I must say i prefer the gradual loading & unloading of passengers & mail!

Keep up the good work guys!

p.s: Is there a way to get attachments into the body of a post, or do they always go after the whole text?

Singaporekid · Post by **Singaporekid** » 13 Jul 2004 03:23

Colonel32 wrote:S1 PRR 6-4-4-6 Duplex kicked out 227 Km/h. I just love that one. BTW - so there still are some free slot in the usset? Are the reserved for stuff like class C Shay

Im doing the shay
I want the S1 PRR 6-4-4-6 too

norfolksouthern37 · Post by **norfolksouthern37** » 13 Jul 2004 03:27

i expected the hhsd40 when i plugged in the road railers to the sd40, maybe something like that would work.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 13 Jul 2004 03:44

Crahn wrote:
The second and most important thing i have noticed is regarding Passengers & Mail. Usually, with gradualloading switch on, passengers & mail unload & load by 5's just like freight does. This is good as it allows the passengers that arrive at the station while the train is unloading time to get on board. It also adds a little realism. I have noticed with the US Set, however, that the loading & unloading of passengers is instantaneous, even though i have gradualloading on & my freighters do load gradually. To me this seems like a bug, not sure if it is, but I must say i prefer the gradual loading & unloading of passengers & mail!

This is NOT a bug, it is a controversial yet carefully tested feature. I'll tell you why it is this way.

Oftentimes you connect two cities to provide passenger service. Passengers don't like to wait, so rather than just have one long train as you would with a freight service, you have two short trains. And of course you wouldn't use wait-until-full orders.
Now, what you want is for the two trains to be separated in time; that is, one should be arriving at station A when the other is arriving at station B, and vice versa. But the normal gradual-loading parameters won't allow this; over time, the trains will get closer together until they are on each other's tail. Here's why.
When loading passengers takes time, the first train to arrive at a station will naturally get most of the passengers, thus spending longer at the station. The second train to arrive will have fewer to pick up, thus spend less time there, thus catching up with the first train just a bit. Over time, this will push the second train to be right on the heels of the first. No good.
Now, with the passenger and mail loading being basically instantaneous, this problem is avoided. No matter how many passengers are or aren't getting on or off, the train spends the same amount of time in the station.
If it were possible to fix it so that the trains spent a longer time in the station, but again it wasn't affected by how much loading or unloading needed to be done, that would be even better. But the Patch doesn't offer a way to do this.

Crahn · Post by **Crahn** » 13 Jul 2004 04:48

Oh, ok. Fair enough.
It will just take a little getting used to having my passenger trains zooming in & out of stations. You make a good point though.

The reason i noticed it was that my more rural stations, that only have a couple of trains visiting them per month, or stations where it is just not profitable to have multiple trains servicing it, tend to be empty with low ratings, as my train didn't sit there for a little bit loading to beef them up, which also caused the trains to fall drastically in profit, as there were hardly any pass/mail to pay for the trip. Thats just the downside i've noticed.

If its controversial like you said, would it be possible to add a parameter in newgrf (like the ones set for newgrf on the readme for the set) to choose the nature of the passenger load/unload? That way players could customize to their prefered play style, much like the boxcar randomness parameter? If not then i accept that, just thought it might be an idea.

Oh, and another suggestion for the Readme file:
Possibly include a little blurb about Tractive Effort and what it does to explain that it is a factor that should be considered when purchasing an engine. I know its a feature of the patch, and not specific to this set, but its a new feature that some players might not have heard of before (I only came across when playing the set), and a very useful feature as well. I had to search thru wiki to discover its purpose and am glad i did! It might help the newer players discover why their fast high horse-power train wont make it up the hill, and show why some of the slower (but high TE) trains are still very useful.

Thanks krtaylor for the quick reply & explanation!

Raichase · Post by **Raichase** » 13 Jul 2004 05:29

Oh, ok. Fair enough.
It will just take a little getting used to having my passenger trains zooming in & out of stations. You make a good point though.

Firstly, welcome to a fellow Aussie, who seems to know what he is talking about! That should take the heat off of me

. I agree with you there, it was a bit of a shock seeing that.

The reason i noticed it was that my more rural stations, [...]

Couldn't agree more there (snipped your message because it's right above this post anyway)

If its controversial like you said, would it be possible to add a parameter in newgrf (like the ones set for newgrf on the readme for the set) to choose the nature of the passenger load/unload? That way players could customize to their prefered play style, much like the boxcar randomness parameter? If not then i accept that, just thought it might be an idea.

I'm with you on this one, whilst I can see how some people would use it, I don't usually have my passenger trains running in any way, they just get their job done, same as the freight locomotives. I guess it's just what I am used to...

Oh, and another suggestion for the Readme file:
Possibly include a little blurb about Tractive Effort and what it does to explain that it is a factor that should be considered when purchasing an engine.

Yes, good point. I had to look it up, but that was when I saw it in the DB Set

.

Crahn · Post by **Crahn** » 13 Jul 2004 05:49

Thanks for the warm welcome Raichase, greetings from a fellow Aussie! I've been browsing these forums near-daily for a long time, but thought I had better join up to post about the woodchip wagon

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 13 Jul 2004 06:07

Crahn wrote: Oh, and another suggestion for the Readme file:
Possibly include a little blurb about Tractive Effort and what it does to explain that it is a factor that should be considered when purchasing an engine.

That even has an explanation in the manual now: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php ... leGraphics

It could be a bit longer, but being a Wiki it's up to anyone to expand it as needed...

norfolksouthern37 · Post by **norfolksouthern37** » 13 Jul 2004 06:24

ok one thing, the little crossing mods are great but... they seem to be set up for left hand running.
i dont know about you, but everywhere ive been in the US its illegal to drive on the left side of a two lane road.

and the doodlebug IS having coupling problems, see attached file.

SkeedR · Post by **SkeedR** » 13 Jul 2004 07:01

earlier on pg 2 krtaylor said "As far as speed, well, the "highest steam speed" rating is somewhat contested. The NYC's Empire State Express supposedly bested that, as did (less famously) the Hiawatha."
Well i have news for you, the BRITISH mallard was the fastest EVER steam loco reaching 126 mph
so ha. the brits are the best

EDIT/ now i see

I'm English u see

Crahn · Post by **Crahn** » 13 Jul 2004 07:10

Yes thats where i found the explanation Patchman, it was a great help! I was just suggesting it for the readme for those people who might not know about or use the TTDPatch wiki, or where to find the info on TE in it.

Lilman424 · Post by **Lilman424** » 13 Jul 2004 07:20

weirdy wrote:earlier on pg 2 krtaylor said "As far as speed, well, the "highest steam speed" rating is somewhat contested. The NYC's Empire State Express supposedly bested that, as did (less famously) the Hiawatha."
Well i have news for you, the BRITISH mallard was the fastest EVER steam loco reaching 126 mph
so ha. the brits are the best

If you notice, the last post on page 2 says "'cause S1 PRR 6-4-4-6 Duplex kicked out 227 Km/h. "
227 km/h or about 141 mph.
141 > 126

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