Improved Town Layouts

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2TallTyler
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Re: Improved Town Layouts

Post by 2TallTyler »

Thanks. The lack of coal acceptance is actually because there aren't enough ITL buildings in the catchment area to provide 8/8 cargo acceptance of coal.

The UK Houses Early Mod houses accepting Waste is perplexing. I've seen similar issues where older NewGRFs use the hexadecimal cargo IDs (0x0B) hard-coded to the original cargos rather than the four-letter cargo label ("WSTE") used by modern NewGRFs. But without ITL, the houses accept Food, which I've left unchanged as 0x0C. Waste uses 0x0B, which is Paper in the base game. Perhaps someone more familiar with how OpenTTD handles cargo IDs can chime in here. But otherwise, it appears to be a problem with UK Houses Early Mod.
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Re: Improved Town Layouts

Post by Amak »

very much enjoying this, couple of requests if you are interested:

-Parameter to switch 'wood' to 'lumber' (WDPR)
-Parameter to switch 'coal' to 'coke' (COKE)

mainly just lumber, if not that's ok; I might fork one day.
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2TallTyler
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Re: Improved Town Layouts

Post by 2TallTyler »

Amak wrote: 12 Dec 2020 08:13 -Parameter to switch 'wood' to 'lumber' (WDPR)
-Parameter to switch 'coal' to 'coke' (COKE)
I'm not opposed to adding cargo acceptance where it makes sense.

Currently wood and coal are accepted by early houses as heating fuels — wood until 1850 and coal until 1945. Is that your intention for these cargos, or would lumber be more like Building Materials?
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Re: Improved Town Layouts

Post by piratescooby »

Would it be Possible for Houses to accept Solid Fuel [ Wood,Coal,Peat ] indefinitely , Loads of houses ,Cottages/Crofts in the the highlands and Isles of Scotland this is still to this day the fuel of choice for cooking ,AGA Stoves ,and heating , Later on Smokeless fuels,Wood Pellets and Oil/Gas .Paraffin and Butane Gas Bottles another choice .
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Re: Improved Town Layouts

Post by Amak »

2TallTyler wrote: 12 Dec 2020 12:31 Currently wood and coal are accepted by early houses as heating fuels — wood until 1850 and coal until 1945. Is that your intention for these cargos, or would lumber be more like Building Materials?
In my game coke is available from 1709 onwards and lumber is available from year 1(in firs coke is available from year 1 also). My understanding is wood was mostly used before coke mills (1709) as impure coal was very dirty to burn.

something like building materials I have town only industries set to accept (like a hardware store, also have supermarket) and wood to me seems like whole tree trunks as that's what I see go to the papermill and sawmills historically it was often by floating logs down a river or canals and the mills were powered by the river also, I guess offcuts would then go to a house in town as lumber (which is made at a sawmill in my game and lumber is labelled 'WDPR' aka wood products) sounds more sensible. The town only industries don't expire and start from year 1 (these are in various firs economies), I can make these accept coke but having dump trucks go to them looks silly where having box trucks makes sense, the horse and cart used in the early years all look suitable for delivering anything to town regardless of cargo. Also building materials are imported by ports and include other materials rather than just wood. Both are cargolabels used by popular FIRS as a parameter or two it gives a bit more depth to those chains and fits in very well with the industry grf I am working on where as coal/wood does not and as a on/off parameter keeps everyone happy :D.

Having those end dates is perfect, later game end of chain cargos are generally accepted by the in town blackhole industries and also in my head people just drive their invisible cars to the forests and get their own wood just like IRL.

I'd very much appreciate it, thanks.
Last edited by Amak on 12 Dec 2020 17:09, edited 1 time in total.
McZapkie
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Re: Improved Town Layouts

Post by McZapkie »

Great addon, I had similar idea but never had time to implement it, glad somebody done this.
My other ideas of avoiding homogenous concentric blob was to make some buildings (with unique/long distance conditions) to act as seed for other similar buildings,
so you can get local cluster of residental houses, or flats, recreational area etc.

There is sparse choice of buildings in case of default buildings, but for example:
monument building would allow to spawn fountains and parks nearby, while blocking some highscrappers/flats (but allowing theatre, church, stadium etc);
same for stadium or church;
warehouse (sprite 33 from temprtbuilds.png) would prevent any other buildings in given cluster, making waste area for industry/station...
Projects: Reproducible Map Generation patch, NewGRFs: Manpower industries, PolTrams, Polroad, 600mm narrow gauge, preindustrial houses, wired, ECS industry extension, V4 CEE train set.
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2TallTyler
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Re: Improved Town Layouts

Post by 2TallTyler »

Unfortunately house cargo acceptance is a property which can't be changed by a switch, so I'd need duplicate house items enclosed in if/else blocks, one accepting lumber and coke, and the other not. It's possible but doesn't scale up well. If you can live without lumber, I would be happy to add coke to all houses which currently accept coal. I will keep coal, as it was indeed used alongside coke (in fact, coal heating was one of the causes of the Great Smog of London in 1952, and switching to coke was one of the changes recommended to prevent a repeat event).
piratescooby wrote: 12 Dec 2020 14:31 Would it be Possible for Houses to accept Solid Fuel [ Wood,Coal,Peat ] indefinitely
In OpenTTD, houses are generally in towns where burning wood or coal is no longer done. I don't think I want to add this to later houses, but you are welcome to fork the project and change whatever you like. :)
McZapkie wrote: 12 Dec 2020 16:08 My other ideas of avoiding homogenous concentric blob was to make some buildings (with unique/long distance conditions) to act as seed for other similar buildings,
so you can get local cluster of residental houses, or flats, recreational area etc.
Indeed, and you are correct that the default buildings don't really provide enough sprites to make the most of this. Stay tuned, though, because I'm currently drawing a new house set which will take full advantage of such concepts. :D
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Re: Improved Town Layouts

Post by McZapkie »

2TallTyler wrote: 13 Dec 2020 18:52 Indeed, and you are correct that the default buildings don't really provide enough sprites to make the most of this. Stay tuned, though, because I'm currently drawing a new house set which will take full advantage of such concepts. :D
Well, my another idea was to make conglomerate town houses project: get together some existing projects under GPL licence, such as Swedish Houses, UK Towns, Polish building Set, TTRS, Japanese Buildings, and make one newgrf -
but unlike using these newgrfs together which result in mixture of different pixel-art styles, buildings from given set would belong to the given group, and only one (or two) group(s) is allowed to exists in city (plus maybe some generic buildings).
So if city start to spawn, and building which belong to the given group appears, such town will keep this style.
Projects: Reproducible Map Generation patch, NewGRFs: Manpower industries, PolTrams, Polroad, 600mm narrow gauge, preindustrial houses, wired, ECS industry extension, V4 CEE train set.
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Re: Improved Town Layouts

Post by Argus »

So one city will be European, another Japanese or another Polish or Swedish or English? That sounds great :)
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Gadg8eer
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Re: Improved Town Layouts

Post by Gadg8eer »

McZapkie wrote: 13 Dec 2020 21:01
2TallTyler wrote: 13 Dec 2020 18:52 Indeed, and you are correct that the default buildings don't really provide enough sprites to make the most of this. Stay tuned, though, because I'm currently drawing a new house set which will take full advantage of such concepts. :D
Well, my another idea was to make conglomerate town houses project: get together some existing projects under GPL licence, such as Swedish Houses, UK Towns, Polish building Set, TTRS, Japanese Buildings, and make one newgrf -
but unlike using these newgrfs together which result in mixture of different pixel-art styles, buildings from given set would belong to the given group, and only one (or two) group(s) is allowed to exists in city (plus maybe some generic buildings).
So if city start to spawn, and building which belong to the given group appears, such town will keep this style.
Sounds good! Keep in mind you can use TTRS3 too; Zephyris has made it clear before leaving the community that his graphics can be used with whatever license you want, provided you give credit.
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Re: Improved Town Layouts

Post by spajdy »

That is something I am gonna use, I tried it for a quick game with one city, pretty much it is great :) Thanks for that.
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2TallTyler
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Re: Improved Town Layouts

Post by 2TallTyler »

1.3.2
  • Add: French translation by arikover
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Re: Improved Town Layouts

Post by pop06095 »

Thanks for the work on this, its realistic and makes it more fun for me and works for me with minimal industries. I have a couple of suggestions for what I think is part of ITL

Downtown Hotels - add accepts food and alcohol
Warehouse - add accepts/provides passengers -- employees and warehouse stores customers
Red Brick Store - add accept/provides passengers -- customers

Thanks again.
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2TallTyler
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Re: Improved Town Layouts

Post by 2TallTyler »

Thanks for the suggestions. I've been meaning to clean up some code behind the scenes, so I've gone ahead and pushed those changes to Bananas as 1.3.3. :)
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Re: Improved Town Layouts

Post by McZapkie »

I'm playing game with ITL, beginning in 1850, and noticed following issue: towns are hardly growing before ~1950 - they are rebuilding homes instead of making new ones. Maybe there is problem with home age?
Projects: Reproducible Map Generation patch, NewGRFs: Manpower industries, PolTrams, Polroad, 600mm narrow gauge, preindustrial houses, wired, ECS industry extension, V4 CEE train set.
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2TallTyler
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Re: Improved Town Layouts

Post by 2TallTyler »

McZapkie wrote: 03 Feb 2021 15:37 I'm playing game with ITL, beginning in 1850, and noticed following issue: towns are hardly growing before ~1950 - they are rebuilding homes instead of making new ones. Maybe there is problem with home age?
Please provide a savegame, and I'll take a look.
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