French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge v1.1: Release Thread

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Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge v1.1: Release Thread

Post by MagicBuzz »

Hello Snail,

Firstly, félécitations pour ton travail pharaonique, aussi précis qu'agréable à jouer !

Now, I'm not sure is the problem comes from your GRF or the JGR's patchpack, but something goes wrong with the template replacement feature.

I explained it in the JGR's patchpack thread, here : viewtopic.php?p=1227647#p1227647

May you could help ?

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Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge v1.1: Release Thread

Post by MagicBuzz »

Hmmm, and a second problem, still with template replacement : refitting wagons of the template actually debits the bank account, while it should not !

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Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge v1.1: Release Thread

Post by Snail »

Merci beaucoup! :)
I saw JGR very quickly made an enhancement to his set. When you get the chance to try it, could you please let me know it fixes the issue?
Thanks in advance
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Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge v1.1: Release Thread

Post by MagicBuzz »

Yes for sure.

I tried to compile his branch myself but I get compilation errors. I don't know much about C++ so I will wait for him to provide a new binary ;)

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Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge v1.1: Release Thread

Post by MagicBuzz »

Hello Snail,

With the proper fixes in the JGR's patchpack everything is well now :)

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Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge v1.1: Release Thread

Post by Snail »

Thanks! Enjoy ;)
BTW I just noticed a misalignment with the newer Bastia depot (the one appearing on the heavy unelectrified tracks, after WW2). I recompiled the set and refreshed it on the first page.
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Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge v1.1: Release Thread

Post by MagicBuzz »

Hello Snail,

I'm playing with you set for a few days now, and I have a few remarks.
Some are about the set itself, and are half about the set and about a "bug" in OTTD.

First, I love your set.
There are many very nice trains, and features such as breaking wagons make the game more exciting.
It would be even better if OTTD has a better acceleration/breaking model, that could take into account the capacity of breaks in slopes, curves and stations : we should balance between "many braking wagons (more expensive) and lower braking distance" or "less braking wagons (cheaper) and longer braking distance and reduced max speed".

Right now I still not used much your set as my most advanced game is in 1915. I still have many trains to discover.

But there are a few things that I have noticed and might be improved.
I know it's a final release, and you might not want to update it much, but this could apply to the future "standard gauge set" you may work on.

- First : rails max speed. They are all at 55 km/h except electric one that is 85 km/h. It's quite surprising as I currently can build trains that run at 60 km/h but no suitable rails for them to run at full speed. Quite frustrating. Thus, the low axle weight versions may have reduced speed limit (is that realist?) to make them less worth at the earlier ages.
- Second : at the very beginning trains become better and better. That makes the game more challenging as you have to choose between keeping "old and slow vehicles" or replace them with better ones, and not being able to build new lines. But after 1900, this is not always the case anymore. As a result, I didn't used most of the trains, as my older are better. Newer trains are quite more powerful, but have lower speed (or not better). But from the beginning the first trains are powerful enough to handle capacities of earlier lines, so first engine don't really have limitation due to lack of power.
- Third : there is something that is really annoying with train lengths. OK, engines have different size, it's normal. But something is quite confusing : standard wagons change size (and capacities) according to the engine. As a result, a simple "replace vehicle" order change trains from 3 tiles long to 5 tiles longs and all the trains on the map are messed up. This is really frustrating. I think you should have created a few more wagons, and let the user to decide long or short versions (you could still lock some combination if some wagons should not work with some engines). Most of the time, a simple speed limit on the short wagons is a good way to force the player to upgrade wagons as well when changing the engine.
And hey, you still can use nice TGV "flambants neufs" with old diesel engines ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBfubb6WvpU

[edit]
- Fourth (how did I forgot it?): some combination result in a little bit more than a unit size... hmmm, don't know how to explain it... You design a train, its length is marked "3.0" but actually it's "3.x" and the train doesn't fit in a 3 tile long station. It's quite annoying. IMO it's mostly a OTTD bug rather a problem with you set : train length should be rounded up using a ceiling function.

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Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge v1.1: Release Thread

Post by Snail »

Hey! Thanks for your kind words, and also for bringing up these subjects. Let's see them one by one:
MagicBuzz wrote:
14 Jan 2020 13:11
It would be even better if OTTD has a better acceleration/breaking model, that could take into account the capacity of breaks in slopes, curves and stations : we should balance between "many braking wagons (more expensive) and lower braking distance" or "less braking wagons (cheaper) and longer braking distance and reduced max speed".
Yep, very true. One thing I really don't like in OTTD, is how trains rush at full speed on long, steep downhill tracks, while they should actually negotiate with them at a very low speed.
Allowing a train to generically have a lower max speed if "not enough" braking wagons are present would be possible, though. Although a bit painful to code. Hmm...
MagicBuzz wrote:
14 Jan 2020 13:11
- First : rails max speed. They are all at 55 km/h except electric one that is 85 km/h. It's quite surprising as I currently can build trains that run at 60 km/h but no suitable rails for them to run at full speed. Quite frustrating. Thus, the low axle weight versions may have reduced speed limit (is that realist?) to make them less worth at the earlier ages.
This should be an easy fix. The trackset has a few parameters, one of which sets the tracks max speed. It has three settings: "realistic", with limits at 55 km/h (as it was on most NG railways, at least until then 1950s); a more gameplay-oriented setting, which raises the limits to 75 except for the earliest, cheapest track; and no limits at all. Have you tried tweaking with that?
MagicBuzz wrote:
14 Jan 2020 13:11
- Second : at the very beginning trains become better and better. That makes the game more challenging as you have to choose between keeping "old and slow vehicles" or replace them with better ones, and not being able to build new lines. But after 1900, this is not always the case anymore. As a result, I didn't used most of the trains, as my older are better. Newer trains are quite more powerful, but have lower speed (or not better). But from the beginning the first trains are powerful enough to handle capacities of earlier lines, so first engine don't really have limitation due to lack of power.
True, and this is due to the author's obsession with realism. :p Narrow gauge trains in France reached their peak between 1900 and 1920. Speaking about the engines specifically, the most powerful steamer was the Mallet built by SLM for the Vivarais network:

Image

And the "fastest" steamer (a whopping 55km/h...) was the 230T that ran in Brittany and on the Côte d'Azur:

Image

The former was introduced in 1903; the latter, one year later. Nothing released after that date surpassed them in power or speed: that is, nothing before the postwar diesels, or the electrics from the 1930s if you don't mind adding a catenary (and still, the latter are powerful, but slow). You will, however, get some newer steamers that can "almost" match those two engines' specs, for a lower maintenance cost. And also, you'll get some nice railcars in the 1930s that can shoo those old steamers away at least on passenger routes.

As for the earliest trains being already powerful enough to handle any cargo, well, have you tried raising the freight weight multiplier in OTTD? I usually set it to 3, and this quite makes the difference. Early games are very challenging, because with such a multiplier, the two earliest steamers won't be able to pull a freight train over slopes at a decent speed. You'll have to design your networks so that full freight trains never drive uphill, at least until the SGLM 031T is available. But that one requires heavier tracks, adding to the challenge.
MagicBuzz wrote:
14 Jan 2020 13:11
- Third : there is something that is really annoying with train lengths. OK, engines have different size, it's normal. But something is quite confusing : standard wagons change size (and capacities) according to the engine. As a result, a simple "replace vehicle" order change trains from 3 tiles long to 5 tiles longs and all the trains on the map are messed up. This is really frustrating. I think you should have created a few more wagons, and let the user to decide long or short versions (you could still lock some combination if some wagons should not work with some engines). Most of the time, a simple speed limit on the short wagons is a good way to force the player to upgrade wagons as well when changing the engine.
And hey, you still can use nice TGV "flambants neufs" with old diesel engines ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBfubb6WvpU
Alright, you're not the first one to point this out. Short answer is: I'm aware of this, but fixing it at this time would entail a redesign of passengers, mail, and mixed coaches. Given I want to dedicate the little TTD time I've got to the SG set, I don't think I'll fix it here. But I'll design the SG set so that this issue doesn't occur.

The longer answer, is that the idea of my set was so old, that I started developing when we were still limited to 116 IDs for trains! At that time, ID sharing among as many vehicles as possible was a must, so I designed "generic" coaches for passengers and mail, occupying as few ID slots as possible. I later split tramway-like coaches away from normal coaches, to at least make them cheaper. Mail and mixed vans, though, still wildly adopt ID sharing, and that's where the problem arises.

I don't think it's all bad: at least, ID sharing allows for a clean, tidy vehicle list, uncluttered by dozens of otherwise similar mail wagons. But I do understand it creates an issue with autoreplace.
MagicBuzz wrote:
14 Jan 2020 13:11
- Fourth (how did I forgot it?): some combination result in a little bit more than a unit size... hmmm, don't know how to explain it... You design a train, its length is marked "3.0" but actually it's "3.x" and the train doesn't fit in a 3 tile long station. It's quite annoying. IMO it's mostly a OTTD bug rather a problem with you set : train length should be rounded up using a ceiling function.
Ah! I was totally unaware of that. Could you please post a screenshot?
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Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge v1.1: Release Thread

Post by MagicBuzz »

Hello :)

I didn't try to change the track settings, I'll try it now.

For the train length problem, here is an exemple : you see the train is "3.0 tile long" but actually it's a bit more (but probably less than 3.1)
St. Flour Transport, Feb 7th, 1900.png
(472.33 KiB) Not downloaded yet

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Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge v1.1: Release Thread

Post by Snail »

MagicBuzz wrote:
16 Jan 2020 08:20
For the train length problem, here is an exemple : you see the train is "3.0 tile long" but actually it's a bit more (but probably less than 3.1)
Hmm... There are 12 vehicles, each long half a normal sprite (4/8). So, a total length of 6 normal sprites (48/8).
How much is one "tile"? If one "tile" contains two normal sprites, then 3.0 should be fine.
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Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge v1.1: Release Thread

Post by Auge »

Hello

There are graphical errors in the NG-trackset. The 15t-track and its counterpart with overhead wires have broken switch points. Also the 11t-track with third rail, the 15t-track with third rail and the high speed track have glitches/misalignments in the switch point graphics.
French-ng-trackset.png
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Tschö, Auge

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Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge v1.1: Release Thread

Post by MagicBuzz »

Snail wrote:
17 Jan 2020 01:39
MagicBuzz wrote:
16 Jan 2020 08:20
For the train length problem, here is an exemple : you see the train is "3.0 tile long" but actually it's a bit more (but probably less than 3.1)
Hmm... There are 12 vehicles, each long half a normal sprite (4/8). So, a total length of 6 normal sprites (48/8).
How much is one "tile"? If one "tile" contains two normal sprites, then 3.0 should be fine.
Hmmm, I just did some tests with a standard OTTD build (nightly) and it works fine.

The problem looks like to come from JRG patchpack.
I'll report the problem to him.

-- Edit: :shock: I can't reproduce it anymore un the JGR patch pack as well... Ok, then everything is ok :D

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Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge v1.1: Release Thread

Post by andythenorth »

Rounding anomalies are sometimes seen for vehicle lengths in depot.

Vehicle lengths are in 1/8 increments, where 16/8 = 1 tile.

The depot display though is in decimals, and occasionally the conversion will produce results that don't look right.

Additionally, the length of the visible pixels isn't always exactly the length of the vehicle (8/8 is 32px by default in most cases). Sometimes by design newgrf authors vary the length of pixels slightly for appearance, or as an oversight. :D

Hope that helps :)

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Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge v1.1: Release Thread

Post by Snail »

Auge wrote:
17 Jan 2020 12:23
Hello

There are graphical errors in the NG-trackset. The 15t-track and its counterpart with overhead wires have broken switch points. Also the 11t-track with third rail, the 15t-track with third rail and the high speed track have glitches/misalignments in the switch point graphics.
Omg it's true! :oops: Fixed now. You can download the updated file on the first page.

-- EDIT --
I also realized some of the offsets for the "030" early tender steamer were wrong: in the NE- and SE-bound views, the tender was too much "inside" of the engine. Fixed now in version 1.2.01, also updated on the first page.
The French Narrow Gauge Train Set is now released! Get it here

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Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge v1.1: Release Thread

Post by Captain_Pronin »

I don't want to be that guy, but I was wondering if this set supports U&ReRMM 2? I have been playing with it recently and it is amazing set for long plays 1800's to 2000's. If it doesn't support it would you be willing to add such? Your set is a good addition to fill out the narrow gauge roster in my game.

Also thanks for making the set! :bow:

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Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge v1.1: Release Thread

Post by Snail »

Captain_Pronin wrote:
20 Jun 2020 07:56
I don't want to be that guy, but I was wondering if this set supports U&ReRMM 2? I have been playing with it recently and it is amazing set for long plays 1800's to 2000's. If it doesn't support it would you be willing to add such? Your set is a good addition to fill out the narrow gauge roster in my game.
Sure. I went through the documentation of that set, and it appears it follows the standard labeling schema, meaning it should be compatible with the French NG trains. Have you tested it and saw it didn't work, by any chance?
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Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge v1.1: Release Thread

Post by Captain_Pronin »

I went into my game and set the first date to 1910, there appears to be no trains from your pack in the Narrow Gauge Train depot. Do i have to set a certain parameter for it to show up in the rail pack I'm using?

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Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge v1.1: Release Thread

Post by Snail »

Captain_Pronin wrote:
20 Jun 2020 22:33
I went into my game and set the first date to 1910, there appears to be no trains from your pack in the Narrow Gauge Train depot. Do i have to set a certain parameter for it to show up in the rail pack I'm using?
Thanks for checking that. Could you please also check if the French NG trains show up in a Standard gauge depot instead?
The French Narrow Gauge Train Set is now released! Get it here

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Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge v1.1: Release Thread

Post by Captain_Pronin »

I checked with the setting for standard gauge and non-standard gauge override. I still couldn't find anything french in my depots.

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Re: French Trains Set - Narrow Gauge v1.1: Release Thread

Post by Snail »

Captain_Pronin wrote:
20 Jun 2020 23:17
I checked with the setting for standard gauge and non-standard gauge override. I still couldn't find anything french in my depots.
Alright, thanks again for checking. Would you mind trying out a test version I just sent you in a PM? That should hopefully add compatibility.
You can answer that PM if it still doesn't work.

-- EDIT --
This set is now compatible to the U&ReRMM2 trackset. Version 1.2.02 has already been uploaded on the first post of this thread.
Enjoy :)
The French Narrow Gauge Train Set is now released! Get it here

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