SBB-CFF-FFS Set (Swiss Trains) v1.0e (7/6/2015)

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3iff
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Re: SBB-CFF-FFS Set (Swiss Trains)

Post by 3iff »

Possible bug found:

In 1955, I try to clone an existing passenger train with the light steel passenger coach and baggage car. They're no longer available despite scheduled for withdrawal between 1980-98. The light steel driver car is there as are the 2/4 axle coaches and the CIWL (?) coaches.

I skipped back to a 1945 save and the coaches are there but I didn't think to check the intervening autosaves to see when they might have disappeared.

I don't have a savegame for this but I might be able to replicate it with a clean newgrf setup if you need a savegame to look at.

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Re: SBB-CFF-FFS Set (Swiss Trains)

Post by V453000 :) »

The capabilities of a newGRF to control when which vehicle should expire are, sadly, very minimal. One can only set a higher value yeah.
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Re: SBB-CFF-FFS Set (Swiss Trains)

Post by dandan »

3iff wrote:Possible bug found:

In 1955, I try to clone an existing passenger train with the light steel passenger coach and baggage car. They're no longer available despite scheduled for withdrawal between 1980-98. The light steel driver car is there as are the 2/4 axle coaches and the CIWL (?) coaches.
Hmm, the life span for the light steel coaches is indeed five years shorter than intended (because I shifted the introduction date back a bit some point and forgot to extend the life span). So that is a bug. But that does not quite explain why they disappear as early as 1955. Should be rather around 1960. Did you use the year cheat at any other point? I have no idea what that does to model life spans.

Note though that the withdrawal date given in the purchase menu is not the same as the date at which the vehicle becomes unavailable for purchase.

Edit: Updated first post with version 1.0a, fixing this problem

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Re: SBB-CFF-FFS Set (Swiss Trains) v1.0a (25/9/2014)

Post by 3iff »

No, I didn't use the year cheat. Had I done so I would have expected things to get confused.

I haven't had an opportunity to thoroughly read the docs so I wouldn't have been aware if there were any date discrepancies. It just seemed extremely odd that the 'latest' coaches were the first to vanish...it was also annoying!

I'll give the new version a try over the weekend. Thanks.

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Re: SBB-CFF-FFS Set (Swiss Trains) v1.0a (25/9/2014)

Post by WLK »

Hello,

first of all, thank you for releasing this lovely set :bow: ( I definitely love the push-pull eyecandy feature).

I have read about the modernisation program of Re 4/4 II (420) in Switzerland and I found that HVZ-D trains are used in S-Bahn Zurich (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_Re_4/4 ... _HVZ-D.jpg)
When I wished to arrange similar train it was impossible because there is no possibility to buy separate doubledecker wagons used in DPZ (class 450) - it is fixed consist.

:?: I would like to ask if there is a chance to add the possibility to buy separate doubledecker wagons? (the sprites are already drawn in the set so it is probably just question of coding)

Thanks

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Re: SBB-CFF-FFS Set (Swiss Trains) v1.0a (25/9/2014)

Post by dandan »

Thanks WLK, I am glad you like the set.

I agree it would be nice to be able to build that train and, as you say, the vehicles are already there. (It would probably need an additional livery for the Re 4/4 II, but that would not be problem).

But the question is really: Should the bilevel S-Bahn trains be fixed consists or should it be completely up to the player to configure those trains? I think the latter would not be right, given how those coaches run only in two very specific fixed consists (Re 450 DPZ, which is in the game, and that HVZ-D, which is not). I fear also that they would be a little too useful and put all other local trains out of business.

What I definitely do *not* want to do, is offer a separate bilevel coach and then put all sorts of "realistic" restrictions on it. (Only with those two locomotives, please. Yes, you need a driving trailer. No, you don't if you put two Re 4/4 II on both ends...)

On the other hand, offering the HVZ-D as another fixed consist would not make too much sense either, since the Re 4/4 II already exists as a separate locomotive. And the whole point of those trains is that the SBB are using their old Re 4/4 II to help out with the S-Bahn during rush hour.

So I do not see how that train can fit into the set nicely at the moment. I might change my mind, but for now I am afraid the answer is no.

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Re: SBB-CFF-FFS Set (Swiss Trains) v1.0a (25/9/2014)

Post by dooo282 »

Really good and well thought out set you have produced here with the push pull eye candy the cherry on the cake just wondering is you meant for the some of the electric locomotives not to produce smoke when broken down?

I know you meant that this set should be played with the limited speed feature turned on but as I am currently playing with Nutracks I turned it off. Would it be possible to increase the running cost of the faster trains when the speed limiting feature is turned off?

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Re: SBB-CFF-FFS Set (Swiss Trains) v1.0a (25/9/2014)

Post by paulicus25 »

Firstly, the set itself is very well done. The visuals are stunning and fit in exceptionally well with certain sets like the dutch train set.

However with regards to the speed limit factor, I would agree with dooo282. His suggestions seems wise.

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Re: SBB-CFF-FFS Set (Swiss Trains) v1.0a (25/9/2014)

Post by dandan »

dooo282 wrote:just wondering if you meant for the some of the electric locomotives not to produce smoke when broken down?
Yes, I did. But I never play with breakdowns. Is this a bad idea for practical reasons?
dooo282 wrote: I know you meant that this set should be played with the limited speed feature turned on but as I am currently playing with Nutracks I turned it off. Would it be possible to increase the running cost of the faster trains when the speed limiting feature is turned off?
Yes, that is a good idea. But I do not think the running cost should directly depend on that switch. Rather it should be higher when the train is running at high speed. That can be done.

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Re: SBB-CFF-FFS Set (Swiss Trains) v1.0a (25/9/2014)

Post by michael blunck »

dandan wrote: [...] But I do not think the running cost should directly depend on that switch. Rather it should be higher when the train is running at high speed. That can be done.
Isn´t that the proverbial BAD FEATURE?

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Re: SBB-CFF-FFS Set (Swiss Trains) v1.0a (25/9/2014)

Post by romazoon »

to me it sound more like the forbiden "R" word ;)....but personnaly, i approve dandan way of thinking.

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Re: SBB-CFF-FFS Set (Swiss Trains) v1.0a (25/9/2014)

Post by Rollmaterial »

Hello, I have been playing this set for some time and the autoreplacement doesn't work for any stock with mail compartment (driving trailers and power cars). Is there some setting that can be changed to correct this or does the game not support this kind of "cheating"?

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Re: SBB-CFF-FFS Set (Swiss Trains) v1.0a (25/9/2014)

Post by dandan »

Yes, bad features and realism will continue to flourish in this set. 8)

Seriously, I do not find the notion of 'bad feature' very helpful and have pretty much ignored that thread. But I also tend to dislike any features that restrict the player's freedom in the name of realism more than I find necessary. In this case though (higher running costs at higher speeds) I do not see any problem.

But constructive criticism of such features is always welcome.
Rollmaterial wrote:Hello, I have been playing this set for some time and the autoreplacement doesn't work for any stock with mail compartment (driving trailers and power cars). Is there some setting that can be changed to correct this or does the game not support this kind of "cheating"?
Hmm, that is very annoying. I do not have the time to test this at the moment, but I will look into it next week.

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Re: SBB-CFF-FFS Set (Swiss Trains) v1.0a (25/9/2014)

Post by andythenorth »

I had the mail compartment refit issue with Iron Horse too. Are those vehicles a single unit, or an articulated vehicle with some units invisible?

Every set needs 3 or 4 BAD FEATURES. :twisted: Otherwise boring. 'Realistic' just happens to be the least imaginative BAD FEATURE. ;)

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Re: SBB-CFF-FFS Set (Swiss Trains) v1.0a (25/9/2014)

Post by michael blunck »

But "higher running cost" for "higher speed" isn´t even r....stic.

In r..l life, a coach constructed for higher max speed would need different, and most probably more expensive equipment (brakes, etc), but it won´t necissarily produce higher running cost.

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Re: SBB-CFF-FFS Set (Swiss Trains) v1.0a (25/9/2014)

Post by dooo282 »

The absence of the smoke is no problem just was wondering about and was a bit confused the first time i saw a train stopped with out smoke coming out of it- its not going to stop me playing with this set.

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Re: SBB-CFF-FFS Set (Swiss Trains) v1.0a (25/9/2014)

Post by romazoon »

michael blunck wrote:a coach constructed for higher max speed would need different, and most probably more expensive equipment (brakes, etc), but it won´t necissarily produce higher running cost.
well physics and safety rules/standards/laws should imply that yes running cost are higher at higher speed. first the faster you go the more energie you consume (acceleration, but also to maintain high speed), then concerning brakes, i have no doubt that making come a train to an halt from 300km/h to 0 is using more the brakes than from lets say 200kmh. On top of that, regarding safety, a company running trains at 300km/h is probably investing a little bit more regarding safety (at least by maintaining well those train suposed to drive at full speed).
Of course many other factors come into "runing cost" and surely many are "fix" cost, but some sounds to me definitly dependant on the running speed.

But i m going way of topic, i guess the only argument should be what does it bring to the gameplay ?
well it would bring an even more detailed variable running cost (variable running cost from other sets are not dependant on speed afaik, but just if train is running or not). i guess some like it, some doesnt. but at least it doesn t make trains ridiculously cheap to run compared to the revenue it makes, like with the original vehicule or some other set :twisted:

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Re: SBB-CFF-FFS Set (Swiss Trains) v1.0a (25/9/2014)

Post by dandan »

andythenorth wrote:I had the mail compartment refit issue with Iron Horse too. Are those vehicles a single unit, or an articulated vehicle with some units invisible?
They are articulated vehicles, one part carrying passengers, the other mail. Do you know why autoreplace fails for them (even if used to replace one such vehicle by another one)?
Every set needs 3 or 4 BAD FEATURES. :twisted: Otherwise boring.
Well said. 8)

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Re: SBB-CFF-FFS Set (Swiss Trains) v1.0a (25/9/2014)

Post by WLK »

Hello,

first of all, thank you dandan for considering HVZ-D. No problem that it won´t be added to the set (there are plenty of another suburban train that I can use in my commuter services).
My vision (as probably easiest solution) was that doubledecker wagons from DPZ could be bought separately and will be limited that can be added to Re 420 only. Class 450 should definitely remain as fixed.
Currently I agree that such consist will be too useful and another suburban train could be inatractive so I am OK right now that HVZ-D won´t be in the set.

If I am not too cheeky I would like to have another requests: :oops:

When playing with the set, I miss more diesel locomotives/trainsets (my electrification level is not so high as is in Switzerland :roll: )

I found that SBB Cargo used for some short period Am840 (Vossloh G2000) http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/ch/SBB ... G_0781.jpg. Is there a chance to add this locomotive? I know that there is Am842 in the set but this fits (from my point of view) more to branchline light services and Am840 could be used no non-electrified mainlines hauling higher-tonnage trains.

Even worse is it with my rural branchline diesel passenger services where there isn´t anything used in Switzerland (and logically neither in set).
I miss something like Class 840 used in our country based on Stadler licence (http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/sk/die ... 0038th.jpg) or Regioshuttle RS1 from Germany http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/die ... 11_05_.jpg
But addding these not-in-switzerland-used vehicles would break the realism of the set :(

Thanks

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Re: SBB-CFF-FFS Set (Swiss Trains) v1.0a (25/9/2014)

Post by Rollmaterial »

To the Eurofima coaches, it would be great if you added the SNCB/NMBS grey livery (http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/be/car ... B_Sg_1.jpg). The belgian Eurofimas can be seen in Switzerland in "Iris" and "Vauban" EC trains 96/97 and 90/91.

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