Iron Horse! 2.23.0 Released 12th April 2021

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LaChupacabra
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.11.1 Released 7th November 2020

Post by LaChupacabra »

andythenorth wrote: 22 Nov 2020 20:55 The wagon colour parameters might be weird in multiplayer, because the server owner might set the colours...so yes that would be the same for all companies. :shock:
I don't have any good solution for that. :twisted:
In my games, I leave the base colour parameters on 'Use company colour settings'. They're really for players who just want to use 'realistic' colours like brown and grey for all wagons, even where vehicle groups set another colour :wink:
I think that since the default setting is to use company colors, the unwise server owner won't even notice it and will leave the parameters unchanged. On the other hand, a sane person will notice, think and... leave the default setting as well. Not really a problem ;) There are just some other interesting alternatives.
andythenorth wrote: 22 Nov 2020 20:55 There are about 20 types of wagons in the reduced set. I've just tested and noticed 1 or 2 more that shouldn't be there (the coil carriers). I'd happily remove 1 or 2 more if that helps, but I don't know which ones need removed. The sliding door box car maybe? The ore hopper? The scrap wagon? And the fruit van?
I think the quickest is possible to remove those that are similar to each other and that carry the same. In fact, everything you mentioned is not necessary for happiness. ;) Maybe except the Sliding Wall Van, which, if properly limited types of cargo, could still be useful.

In a simplified version for transporting coal, there are currently as many as 6 types of wagons:
1. Open Wagon
2. Hopper Wagon
3. Ore Hopper Wagon
4. Mineral Wagon
5. Scrap Wagon
6. Container Wagon

In the first and the last one, you can carry everything except for the mail and passengers. The remaining ones (2-5) are used to carry bulk cargo and don't differ much except in appearance: they transport exactly the same cargo, have the same capacity, speed limit, the same length, even weigh the same. Apart from a slight difference in price, the only significant difference is the loading speed and there is also a problem here, because a player has to buy, test, compare and remember which wagons have what parameters.

In Iron Horse 1 of these wagons, the first two were available for transporting coal, and this could also be here in the case of a simplified set. In the case of the extended version, it would be good if these wagons were different and definitely did not carry everything they could. For example, Grain Hopper in my opinion should not transport building materials or cement, but rather only food raw materials. Sliding Wall Van should not transport grain (maybe I don't know, but what would the loading / unloading look like? :mrgreen: ), Maybe the Container Wagon shouldn't transport livestock - yes, there are a appropriate containers, but I don't think that unloading such a load looks and is as fast as a container filled with e.g. tires or clothes. Besides, such versatility of this wagon, together with the fact of quick loading, means that it is not worth taking into account others at all. In that case, all this variety becomes a fake, a ordinary eyecand.
It's late, but one more note: The High Side Mineral Wagon should rather have a larger capacity than the regular Mineral Wagon.
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.13.0 Released 24th November 2020

Post by andythenorth »

Iron Horse 2.13.0 now on Bananas.

Docs on grf.farm: https://grf.farm/iron-horse/2.13.0/html ... arted.html

-------------
2.13.0 Release
-------------

Changes
  • enable colour randomisation for Torpedo Cars
  • added cargo sprites for
    • Steel Wire Rod (as used in FIRS v4 Steeltown)
    • Pipe (as used in FIRS Steeltown)
  • reworked tarp-covered cargo sprites, used as sprites for unknown cargo on many wagon types
Fixes
  • removed Coil Carrier and Uncovered Coil Carrier from simplified gameplay mode
Docs
  • fix footer placement on changelog html page
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.14.0 Released 29th November 2020

Post by andythenorth »

Iron Horse 2.14.0 now on Bananas.

grf.farm docs: https://grf.farm/iron-horse/2.14.0/html ... arted.html

------------------
2.14.0 Release
------------------

Changes
  • adjusted freight engine tech tree
    • added Defiant, 3650hp, follows from Bone
    • increased Blackthorn power to 3650hp
    • reduced Cheddar Valley power to 4050hp
    • renamed Endeavour to Highlander, power increased to 4450hp, follows from Cheddar Valley
  • reduced running costs of high speed and very high speed trains
  • reduced running costs of Onslaught and Relentless
  • adjusted automatic running cost algorithm so that gen 6 engines are not significantly cheaper to run than gen 5, with insignificant changes to all other engine running costs as a side effect
  • added cargo sprites for
    • aluminium (ingots)
    • zinc (ingots)
  • added cargo sprites for Tarpaulin Wagons and Covered Coil Carriers (shown when loading / unloading)
  • added flatrack intermodal container sprites for Container Wagons, for certain cargos
    • aluminium (ingots)
    • pipe
    • zinc (ingots)
  • improved appearance of Plate Cars
  • improved placement of certain coil cargo sprites

Defiant freight engine (class 68-ish).
defiant_dark_blue_dark_blue.png
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defiant_red_white.png
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Covered Coil Carriers, Tarpaulin Wagons with loading sprites; flatrack containers with ingots
horse-2.14.0.png
horse-2.14.0.png (72.74 KiB) Viewed 1561 times
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.14.0 Released 29th November 2020

Post by 2TallTyler »

Would you be willing to expand on, or point me in the direction of, your automatic running cost algorithm? (I can read Python, if that's the form it takes). It would be useful for less-experienced NewGRF developers like me to know the logic behind your well-balanced sets, rather than simply copying stats from your code reference or repos as I've done for both FIRS and Iron Horse! :)
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.14.0 Released 29th November 2020

Post by andythenorth »

2TallTyler wrote: 29 Nov 2020 19:38 Would you be willing to expand on, or point me in the direction of, your automatic running cost algorithm?
For engines: https://github.com/andythenorth/iron-ho ... in.py#L635

It uses speed, weight and power as the core factors.

There are lots of automatic maluses and bonuses, for e.g. electric power, railcars, narrow gauge etc.

Each base type of vehicle can also set cost factors, and each individual vehicle can over-ride them.

About 1/3 of the engines apply a manual cost adjustment for gameplay reasons. The algorithm isn't perfect, but gives a decent baseline and avoids having to redo costs when adjusting power, weight etc.

If I could be bothered to refactor it, I would remove one of:
* 'fixed_run_cost_points' (which is fixed per type / vehicle)
* 'floating_run_cost_multiplier' (which dials up or down the effects of speed, power etc per type / vehicle).

They are valid in theory, but in practice, either can be adjusted to get a desired result, and having both is needlessly complicated.


There's a simpler equivalent for wagons: https://github.com/andythenorth/iron-ho ... n.py#L1216
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.14.0 Released 29th November 2020

Post by Oakman »

Just a small remark: You are actually doing a really great job! Thanks a lot!
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.14.0 Released 29th November 2020

Post by andythenorth »

Oakman wrote: 30 Nov 2020 08:31 You are actually doing a really great job! Thanks a lot!
Thanks :) Encouragement is always appreciated.

Meanwhile, Iron Horse 2.15.0 is on Bananas.

Docs on grf.farm: https://grf.farm/iron-horse/2.15.0/html ... arted.html

---------------------
2.15.0 Release
---------------------

Changes
  • added narrow gauge Ingot Carriers
    • inspired by steel mill ingot buggies, used for casting and transporting ingots
    • refit to carbon steel, cast iron, pig iron
    • articulated, can't be flipped
    • relatively high capacity, slow speed
  • added narrow gauge Coil Buggies
    • inspired by steel mill coil transport buggies
    • same refits as Coil Carriers
    • articulated, can't be flipped
    • relatively high capacity, slow speed
  • added gen 6 short Container Wagon
  • added narrow gauge Scrap Wagons
  • added narrow gauge Bulkhead Flat Wagons
  • added ammonia to Cryo Tanker refittable cargos
  • set coal as default cargo for Hopper
  • intermodal containers will use random recolour of CC1 to alternate shade
  • added more variety to box container 1CC / 2CC / red combinations
  • improved appearance of gen 4 narrow gauge Tanker
  • improved appearance of cargo sprites for eye-longitudinal coils
Fixes
  • luxury railcar trailers
    • introduction dates were too early
    • capacities were too high
  • one angle of roof sprites was too tall for 6/8 vehicles with automated roof sprites
  • fixed errors with gen 4C pax coach pixels
Docs
  • add context to license.pt
  • move license.pt to repo root so it's more easily found
--- GIF!

The ingot carriers are only 2/8 of a tile long, and they make a nice sight on corners. IRL these are filled with molten steel, left to cool, then the ingot is removed from the mould.
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Last edited by andythenorth on 30 Nov 2020 17:33, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.15.0 Released 30th November 2020

Post by 2TallTyler »

Thanks for the link. I've learned a lot from reading your code and documentation, both about OpenTTD specifically and best-practice naming and commenting. I use a lot of your NewGRFs, but also appreciate your behind-the-scenes work.

With the new narrow gauge ingot and coil carriers, I've suddenly developed an itch to build an internal steel mill railway. The 3-foot gauge Durango & Silverton has a small fleet of former steel mill diesels for switching and work trains, and I've spent my fair share of time riding the open walkways as a brakeman or diesel fireman. I imagine it would be a lot less pleasant in the hot canyons of a steel mill.
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.15.0 Released 30th November 2020

Post by Emperor Jake »

I like the new Outrageous capacity, finally IH passenger trains can keep up with other train sets capacity wise. However the freight trains become extremely short and heavy, so would it be possible to have separate capacity parameters for passenger and freight stuff? Ideally I'd keep freight capacities at default or marvellous while having outrageous passenger ones :)

I like the new steel wagons as well, I look forward to using them in the next big game.

Today in silly things AI does: Helm Wind with 1st gen open wagons for freight trains :twisted:
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A goods train, a goods train! Oh the shame of it
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.15.0 Released 30th November 2020

Post by Ragin1_ »

One thing that has always confused me about the final generation of multiple units is why the electric general purpose trains become electro-diesel and not the diesel units. Where I mostly use the electric general purpose trains is for suburban working which doesn't really need dual mode operation and having them be dual mode makes the final generation of diesel railcars be completely useless.

I think gameplay wise it would make more sense to have the final generation of Diesel railcars be dual mode or have a separate series of dual mode multiple units starting in the 2nd last generation of multiple units and keep the diesel and electric only units separate.
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.15.0 Released 30th November 2020

Post by andythenorth »

Emperor Jake wrote: 02 Dec 2020 03:21 would it be possible to have separate capacity parameters for passenger and freight stuff? Ideally I'd keep freight capacities at default or marvellous while having outrageous passenger ones :) well, I look forward to using them in the next big game.
Parameter is possible, but I think the first thing to look at is whether default pax capacity is too low. Gen 6 (2020) standard pax coaches have 48 pax. Realism isn't the best guide to gameplay, but the same coach in IRL would be around 60-80.

So I reckon look at increasing this first. It will lead to shorter pax trains on some routes, but there's always the luxury coach option for lower capacity.
Today in silly things AI does: Helm Wind with 1st gen open wagons for freight trains :twisted:
More of this pls :twisted:

It's why there are no wagon attach restrictions or similar in Horse. Rule 1 applies. :D It's your trainset, right?
Ragin1_ wrote: 02 Dec 2020 04:21 One thing that has always confused me about the final generation of multiple units is why the electric general purpose trains become electro-diesel and not the diesel units. Where I mostly use the electric general purpose trains is for suburban working which doesn't really need dual mode operation and having them be dual mode makes the final generation of diesel railcars be completely useless.
100% agree, got the same in my current game. The diesel cars are pointless.

The electro-diesel railcars are only there 'because I could' - it's an easy couple of lines of code. But it's weak gameplay and ignores a few things:
  • hydrogen would be a more radical fuel source as replacement for diesel, only reason I didn't do it is because there's no smoke or sparks effect I can use :twisted:
  • if we're were having hybrid railcars, they might as well be tri-mode with battery eh?
  • the electro-diesel railcars are more expensive to run than diesel, but generally in Horse electric trains are supposed to be cheaper to run than diesel...it's only a tiny difference but eh, one more reason they don't make sense
So yair, I think they need adjusted. Hybrid might make more sense on the long distance luxury railcars, or on something like an Azuma, which doesn't exist in Horse currently.
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.15.0 Released 30th November 2020

Post by Ragin1_ »

hydrogen would be a more radical fuel source as replacement for diesel, only reason I didn't do it is because there's no smoke or sparks effect I can use
Personally I don't think hydrogen would work too well as a fuel source for diesel railcars, at least for the 2015 generation, maybe if you did another generation of them around 2045 it would make sense because at that point we reasonably could assume that hydrogen would be popular as a fuel source although at the same time it's likely battery power would be common.
if we're were having hybrid railcars, they might as well be tri-mode with battery eh?
Well hey, battery and electro-battery locomotives could certainly work for the final generation to replace diesels, again I think they might work best as a final generation after the existing one because in 2020 battery powered trains are only in operation in I think japan and only in small numbers so I don't think it'd make sense at least for now.
Hybrid might make more sense on the long distance luxury railcars, or on something like an Azuma, which doesn't exist in Horse currently.
I would certainly be for this, having a bi mode version of the brenner cab introduced at around the same time that is as fast but carries less in the leading cars and costs more to run would make a great option. The other option I could see would be to introduce "express" diesel multiple units starting in the 80s that are meant as express trains on non electrified lines to run with the blazes and scorchers with the final generation being a bi-mode.

If I were to just suggest some ideas directly:-
-Keep electric and diesel units separate and add an additional set of electro-diesels for the 1990 and 2020 generations with higher running costs than their counterparts but are more powerful and cheaper when operating on electric routes, mostly meant for regional routes that run along the electrified network on a significant portion of their route (similar to what the NSW government is doing with their new bi-mode units)
-A new series of express diesel units starting in the 1960 or 1990 generation, same speed and capacity as their electric counterparts just cost more. As far as I'm aware most intercity routes in the UK are now operated by multiple units so it doesn't make sense to have an extensive selection of passenger locomotives when they're not common in the uk for main line passenger working.
-A new version of the brenner cab with bi-mode operation with the same speed but lower capacity in the leading cars and higher running costs.

Sorry if this is wordy and a bit out there, im not good at making my point directly so yh.
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.15.0 Released 30th November 2020

Post by 2TallTyler »

andythenorth wrote: 02 Dec 2020 10:04
  • hydrogen would be a more radical fuel source as replacement for diesel, only reason I didn't do it is because there's no smoke or sparks effect I can use :twisted:
Maybe they can produce bubbles of clean water. 8)
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.15.0 Released 30th November 2020

Post by Emperor Jake »

andythenorth wrote: 02 Dec 2020 10:04 Parameter is possible, but I think the first thing to look at is whether default pax capacity is too low. Gen 6 (2020) standard pax coaches have 48 pax. Realism isn't the best guide to gameplay, but the same coach in IRL would be around 60-80.

So I reckon look at increasing this first. It will lead to shorter pax trains on some routes, but there's always the luxury coach option for lower capacity.
That would be a good option as well, how about raising all passenger capacities by 50%. I thought you wanted to keep the passenger capacities low in keeping with the original vehicles, however I'm used to playing with GRFs where commuter trains can have upwards of 100 pax per carriage :) In fact I find myself using the luxury coaches/railcars less than I'd like to, and shorter passenger trains look nice too.
andythenorth wrote: 02 Dec 2020 10:04 Hybrid might make more sense on the long distance luxury railcars
I agree. The standard railcar would be better off as a pure electric while dual-mode would make sense on the luxury railcar if there's no diesel equivalent. I don't see much of a point in including hydrogen/battery stuff in this generation, it's still pretty niche after all.
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.15.0 Released 30th November 2020

Post by andythenorth »

Emperor Jake wrote: 02 Dec 2020 15:35 I thought you wanted to keep the passenger capacities low in keeping with the original vehicles
I did, but some ideas have to die. I'll try for 60-70 pax by around 1990. Not sure how it will go at game start.
I agree. The standard railcar would be better off as a pure electric while dual-mode would make sense on the luxury railcar if there's no diesel equivalent
We'll give that a look then and see if it pans out :)
I don't see much of a point in including hydrogen/battery stuff in this generation, it's still pretty niche after all.
Mass fleet replacement kicking in around 2030 is the talk in the UK. Air quality legislation is one of the drivers.

In-game the idea is just a bit of variety from '(Diesel)'. Nothing much for gameplay.


EDIT give this a go

- think the standard gauge pax car capacity is about right now (narrow gauge unchanged)
- the Pylon and Zeus are plain electric

Not sure about the railcar units, plenty of bi-mode here in the last uk last 5 years, and more getting introduced. But IRL often makes for crappy gameplay :D I reckon we might want a bi-mode mail unit though. Anyway, give the grf a go.
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.15.0 Released 30th November 2020

Post by Kevo00 »

This set in the 19th century together with improved town growth gives you brilliant gameplay...balancing the books is actually a challenge.
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.15.0 Released 30th November 2020

Post by andythenorth »

Kevo00 wrote: 03 Dec 2020 23:30 This set in the 19th century together with improved town growth gives you brilliant gameplay
Thanks! Nice comments are nice :D
andythenorth wrote: Anyway, give the grf a go.
Not that I'm impatient, but anyone tried that test grf?

1. I reckon the bigger pax capacity is about right, ship it?

2. Not convinced about making the Pylon mail railcar pure electric, not electro-diesel. Making the Zeus pax railcar pure electric is fine.

Considering this
* Electro-diesel Pylon
* Dig up the Cargo Sprinter thing from Iron Horse 1, add it to Iron Horse 2 as container-carrying diesel railcar (same express-only refits)
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.15.0 Released 30th November 2020

Post by Emperor Jake »

andythenorth wrote: Not that I'm impatient, but anyone tried that test grf?

1. I reckon the bigger pax capacity is about right, ship it?

2. Not convinced about making the Pylon mail railcar pure electric, not electro-diesel. Making the Zeus pax railcar pure electric is fine.

Considering this
* Electro-diesel Pylon
* Dig up the Cargo Sprinter thing from Iron Horse 1, add it to Iron Horse 2 as container-carrying diesel railcar (same express-only refits)
Passenger capacities seem pretty spot-on :)
Electro diesel Pylon makes sense if the corresponding luxury railcar can be electro deisel too. I would welcome the addition of a Cargo Sprinter as well

EDIT: Autocoach capacity is reported wrong in the buy menu, it shows 2x the passenger capacity instead of passengers+mail
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.15.0 Released 30th November 2020

Post by Kevo00 »

andythenorth wrote: 05 Dec 2020 10:54
Kevo00 wrote: 03 Dec 2020 23:30 This set in the 19th century together with improved town growth gives you brilliant gameplay
Thanks! Nice comments are nice :D
andythenorth wrote:
One possible comment - the reliability curve seems to mean that the trains start to see sharply declining reliability after only the prototype has been able to live out its design life. So you have to replace your whole fleet at once which can overstretch your company. Might not matter as much later in the game when loads of new models come out, but its a real problem around 1900.
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.15.0 Released 30th November 2020

Post by andythenorth »

Emperor Jake wrote: 05 Dec 2020 14:52EDIT: Autocoach capacity is reported wrong in the buy menu, it shows 2x the passenger capacity instead of passengers+mail
Thanks. Can't repro though :D

So dunno :twisted: Is it a patchpack?

Here's what I get :)

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