[OTTD] 2cc TrainsInNML - Current version: 3.0

Find and discuss all the latest NewGRF releases for TTDPatch and OpenTTD here.

Moderator: Graphics Moderators

Post Reply
Transportman
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2743
Joined: 22 Feb 2011 18:34

Re: [OTTD] 2cc TrainsInNML - Current version: 1.0

Post by Transportman »

By request I just released 2.0-alpha1. It contains a lot of new vehicles, some redrawing, and various bug fixes. I will not post the complete changelog, as it is quite long.

The new version is on Bananas and attached to the first post.
Coder of the Dutch Trackset | Development support for the Dutch Trainset | Coder of the 2cc TrainsInNML

User avatar
Erato
Route Supervisor
Route Supervisor
Posts: 478
Joined: 25 May 2015 09:09
Location: The Netherlands

Re: [OTTD] 2cc TrainsInNML - Current version: 2.0-alpha1

Post by Erato »

I've got a question: Where did you get data like the amount of power supplied by the vehicle or the weight of the vehicle, or did you estimate / calculate it to work with OpenTTD? And how about balancing the costs, how did you do that?
No pics no clicks. Seriously. Also stop using Modern Maglev Trains. Use RIMS instead.
ImageImageImageImageImageImage

User avatar
Voyager One
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 11181
Joined: 28 Dec 2009 09:47
Location: Rijeka, Croatia

Re: [OTTD] 2cc TrainsInNML - Current version: 2.0-alpha1

Post by Voyager One »

Most data come from wikipedia or railfaneurope or from manufacturer's datasheets or from other railway sites. Some data that were impossible to find are calculations, some are guesstimates based on comparable engines or similar.

Costs are done by a built-in formula, Transportman can explain this better.
Leon

Image Image Image Image
"... all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by..." - John Masefield

Transportman
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2743
Joined: 22 Feb 2011 18:34

Re: [OTTD] 2cc TrainsInNML - Current version: 2.0-alpha1

Post by Transportman »

Voyager One wrote:Most data come from wikipedia or railfaneurope or from manufacturer's datasheets or from other railway sites. Some data that were impossible to find are calculations, some are guesstimates based on comparable engines or similar.
Indeed, that.
Costs are done by a built-in formula, Transportman can explain this better.
It is not really built-in (although I do have something like that planned one day), but it is indeed just a formula based on several vehicle properties. If you really want to know the specifics, I can write it out completely.
Coder of the Dutch Trackset | Development support for the Dutch Trainset | Coder of the 2cc TrainsInNML

User avatar
Erato
Route Supervisor
Route Supervisor
Posts: 478
Joined: 25 May 2015 09:09
Location: The Netherlands

Re: [OTTD] 2cc TrainsInNML - Current version: 2.0-alpha1

Post by Erato »

Transportman wrote:
Voyager One wrote:Most data come from wikipedia or railfaneurope or from manufacturer's datasheets or from other railway sites. Some data that were impossible to find are calculations, some are guesstimates based on comparable engines or similar.
Indeed, that.
Costs are done by a built-in formula, Transportman can explain this better.
It is not really built-in (although I do have something like that planned one day), but it is indeed just a formula based on several vehicle properties. If you really want to know the specifics, I can write it out completely.
I would love to hear about it. Maybe send it to me in PM, to prevent derailing the topic. Thanks in advance.
Is power also done through a calculation?
No pics no clicks. Seriously. Also stop using Modern Maglev Trains. Use RIMS instead.
ImageImageImageImageImageImage

User avatar
Voyager One
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 11181
Joined: 28 Dec 2009 09:47
Location: Rijeka, Croatia

Re: [OTTD] 2cc TrainsInNML - Current version: 2.0-alpha1

Post by Voyager One »

Erato wrote:Is power also done through a calculation?
Nope, power is provided by fixed entry. Go here and see what I mean, this is an example of which data I provide when drawing/adding something.
Leon

Image Image Image Image
"... all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by..." - John Masefield

User avatar
Erato
Route Supervisor
Route Supervisor
Posts: 478
Joined: 25 May 2015 09:09
Location: The Netherlands

Re: [OTTD] 2cc TrainsInNML - Current version: 2.0-alpha1

Post by Erato »

Voyager One wrote:
Erato wrote:Is power also done through a calculation?
Nope, power is provided by fixed entry. Go here and see what I mean, this is an example of which data I provide when drawing/adding something.
How do you estimate the power when you have absolutely nothing to compare it with?
No pics no clicks. Seriously. Also stop using Modern Maglev Trains. Use RIMS instead.
ImageImageImageImageImageImage

User avatar
Voyager One
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 11181
Joined: 28 Dec 2009 09:47
Location: Rijeka, Croatia

Re: [OTTD] 2cc TrainsInNML - Current version: 2.0-alpha1

Post by Voyager One »

On most occasions it is already mentioned somewhere. On some occasions I guesstimate it according to similar engines.


On some occasions for steamers I calculate it based on this formula:

P = 2 * p * l * a * n * 0,85 / 33000

Where P is power in HP, p is boiler pressure in psi, l is piston stroke in inches, a is piston area in square inches, n is revolutions per minute, 0,85 is a somewhat "standard" coefficient for "efficiency".

Similar formulas can be found for diesel/electric engines but so far I've had no need for them, steamers are sometimes problematic.

EDIT: Here's something you might be interested in... Factors are labeled somewhat different but it's the same story.

http://s159928592.onlinehome.us/html/es ... ngine.html
Leon

Image Image Image Image
"... all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by..." - John Masefield

Transportman
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2743
Joined: 22 Feb 2011 18:34

Re: [OTTD] 2cc TrainsInNML - Current version: 2.0-alpha1

Post by Transportman »

Erato wrote:
Transportman wrote:
Voyager One wrote:Most data come from wikipedia or railfaneurope or from manufacturer's datasheets or from other railway sites. Some data that were impossible to find are calculations, some are guesstimates based on comparable engines or similar.
Indeed, that.
Costs are done by a built-in formula, Transportman can explain this better.
It is not really built-in (although I do have something like that planned one day), but it is indeed just a formula based on several vehicle properties. If you really want to know the specifics, I can write it out completely.
I would love to hear about it. Maybe send it to me in PM, to prevent derailing the topic. Thanks in advance.
No need to PM it, I looked it up again (as it was quite some time since I actually implemented it), it is basically the following equation:
Base * the sum of ( PropertyBase * PropertyValue ^ PropertyExponent ).

The properties used are:
Weight
Maximum speed
Power
Cargo capacity
TE

You can look at this sheet for further information. It is an older version of the vehicle sheet, I should still update it with the new vehicles, but does contain the equations used.
Coder of the Dutch Trackset | Development support for the Dutch Trainset | Coder of the 2cc TrainsInNML

User avatar
Erato
Route Supervisor
Route Supervisor
Posts: 478
Joined: 25 May 2015 09:09
Location: The Netherlands

Re: [OTTD] 2cc TrainsInNML - Current version: 2.0-alpha1

Post by Erato »

Voyager One wrote:On most occasions it is already mentioned somewhere. On some occasions I guesstimate it according to similar engines.


On some occasions for steamers I calculate it based on this formula:

P = 2 * p * l * a * n * 0,85 / 33000

Where P is power in HP, p is boiler pressure in psi, l is piston stroke in inches, a is piston area in square inches, n is revolutions per minute, 0,85 is a somewhat "standard" coefficient for "efficiency".

Similar formulas can be found for diesel/electric engines but so far I've had no need for them, steamers are sometimes problematic.

EDIT: Here's something you might be interested in... Factors are labeled somewhat different but it's the same story.

http://s159928592.onlinehome.us/html/es ... ngine.html
Thanks for the effort, but I want to know for maglev trains what the power is in kW/MW. And your pack seems rather balanced, so I figured you'd know for everything.
No pics no clicks. Seriously. Also stop using Modern Maglev Trains. Use RIMS instead.
ImageImageImageImageImageImage


User avatar
Erato
Route Supervisor
Route Supervisor
Posts: 478
Joined: 25 May 2015 09:09
Location: The Netherlands

Re: [OTTD] 2cc TrainsInNML - Current version: 2.0-alpha1

Post by Erato »

kamnet wrote:For maglevs just go with the direct electric conversion.
What is the direct electric conversion? Wikipedia talks about nuclear fusion.
No pics no clicks. Seriously. Also stop using Modern Maglev Trains. Use RIMS instead.
ImageImageImageImageImageImage

User avatar
kamnet
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 7291
Joined: 28 Sep 2009 17:15
Location: Eastern KY
Contact:

Re: [OTTD] 2cc TrainsInNML - Current version: 2.0-alpha1

Post by kamnet »

Erato wrote:
kamnet wrote:For maglevs just go with the direct electric conversion.
What is the direct electric conversion? Wikipedia talks about nuclear fusion.
Transportman said there were similar formulas for electric. Use that for your maglevs.

User avatar
Erato
Route Supervisor
Route Supervisor
Posts: 478
Joined: 25 May 2015 09:09
Location: The Netherlands

Re: [OTTD] 2cc TrainsInNML - Current version: 2.0-alpha1

Post by Erato »

kamnet wrote:
Erato wrote:
kamnet wrote:For maglevs just go with the direct electric conversion.
What is the direct electric conversion? Wikipedia talks about nuclear fusion.
Transportman said there were similar formulas for electric. Use that for your maglevs.
I've been looking for these formulas, but I couldn't find them :| You wouldn't happen to know the formulas or know where they are, would you?
No pics no clicks. Seriously. Also stop using Modern Maglev Trains. Use RIMS instead.
ImageImageImageImageImageImage

Transportman
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2743
Joined: 22 Feb 2011 18:34

Re: [OTTD] 2cc TrainsInNML - Current version: 2.0-alpha1

Post by Transportman »

I think for the Maglevs I do not have a value, I probably just grabbed them from the old set.
Coder of the Dutch Trackset | Development support for the Dutch Trainset | Coder of the 2cc TrainsInNML

User avatar
Erato
Route Supervisor
Route Supervisor
Posts: 478
Joined: 25 May 2015 09:09
Location: The Netherlands

Re: [OTTD] 2cc TrainsInNML - Current version: 2.0-alpha1

Post by Erato »

Transportman wrote:I think for the Maglevs I do not have a value, I probably just grabbed them from the old set.
And as for the electric engines?

EDIT: The problem is kinda like this: if I use real physics on this, the Transrapid 08 would have a power of 5033 kW, and the Linimo would have a power of 697kW... Of course... I had not been comparing the trains with the most modern of trains, which DO have that kind of acceleration.

NVM, I found it. Sorry to have bothered you

EDIT2: then comes the next question. In the absence of a value for the acceleration and/or the mass, what do you do?
No pics no clicks. Seriously. Also stop using Modern Maglev Trains. Use RIMS instead.
ImageImageImageImageImageImage

Diesel Power
Traffic Manager
Traffic Manager
Posts: 220
Joined: 18 Jun 2016 19:05

Re: [OTTD] 2cc TrainsInNML - Current version: 2.0-alpha1

Post by Diesel Power »

I've found a bug. The 3rd gen boxcar (type 2) shows the graphics of the 3rd gen boxcar (type 1) when refitted to fish and alcohol. Also I find the 5th gen super heavy flatcar only being able to carry goods a little odd. And it's capacity of 99 renders it obsolete next to the 5th gen heavy flatcar carrying 84 and being nearly a third of it's length. But these are only small bugs in what is the best trainset in Openttd. Keep up the good work!

Transportman
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2743
Joined: 22 Feb 2011 18:34

Re: [OTTD] 2cc TrainsInNML - Current version: 2.0-alpha1

Post by Transportman »

Diesel Power wrote:I've found a bug. The 3rd gen boxcar (type 2) shows the graphics of the 3rd gen boxcar (type 1) when refitted to fish and alcohol. Also I find the 5th gen super heavy flatcar only being able to carry goods a little odd. And it's capacity of 99 renders it obsolete next to the 5th gen heavy flatcar carrying 84 and being nearly a third of it's length. But these are only small bugs in what is the best trainset in Openttd. Keep up the good work!
Thanks for the reports, I made issues for them to keep track of them.
Coder of the Dutch Trackset | Development support for the Dutch Trainset | Coder of the 2cc TrainsInNML

Diesel Power
Traffic Manager
Traffic Manager
Posts: 220
Joined: 18 Jun 2016 19:05

Re: [OTTD] 2cc TrainsInNML - Current version: 2.0-alpha1

Post by Diesel Power »

Just spotted the 4th Gen box cars do the same thing. The 5th Gen box cars, the graphics are swapped for all cargoes

User avatar
NekoMaster
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 3982
Joined: 16 Aug 2008 22:26
Skype: neko-master
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, CANADA

Re: [OTTD] 2cc TrainsInNML - Current version: 2.0-alpha1

Post by NekoMaster »

I'd like to thank Transportman and all the artists of 2cc Trains for making this set a possibility. Its always nice to have a variety of locomotives to play with :D

As I'm working on my own GRF set for OpenTTD, NARS Add-on Set, I was wondering if it'd be ok to use sprites from the 2cc Train Set. I understand giving credit and I believe I need to have my set licensed under the same license as 2cc Set (Which I believe is GPL v2?)
Image Proud Canadian Image
Nekomasters Projects! (Downloads available on BaNaNaS!) \(>^w^<)/
# NARS ADD-ON SET 2CC | 2cc Rapid Transit For Me! (2ccRTFM) | 2cc Wagons In NML (2ccWIN)
# NML Category System (Organize your GRFS!) <- TT-Forums Exclusive Download!

Post Reply

Return to “Graphics Releases”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: perverted monkey and 3 guests