Pineapple Trains (10cc) - 32bpp/ez train set (1.3, July '15)

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Re: Pineapple Trains (10cc) - 32bpp/ez train set (1.2, Nov '

Post by PikkaBird » 11 Apr 2015 11:53

Thanks for the responses so far, guys. :)
doxlulzem wrote:I have a suggestion regarding Pineapple Industries when you start to make it - Can you keep it like TaI?
I have a few expansions to the industry mechanics in mind, but rest assured the chains will be quite TaI-like. :) The rest of the Pineapple GRFs will be much like the trains - focused on gameplay and balance, rather than complicated mechanics, "realism", or an excess of content.
doxlulzem wrote:I do! Class 66 and 70 style locomotives! Or just a 66! Or a 66 and 14! Or a 66 and 60! Or a 66 and 143! Or a 66 and 159!
One of the ideas I had for backer rewards for the kickstarter was a pack of locomotives suggested by backers, either fictional or real, to add more visual variety. What I'm looking for for the main set is more about difference in function rather than difference in appearance or style. :) I'll write a lot more about the kickstarter next week - perhaps even get it started - after I finish my last mid-semester assignments.

FWIW large twin-cab locos are difficult to squeeze into the 8/8 and look good. That's the main reason I went with the American-style cab for the Lincoln.
Plord wrote:my idea is may be corvine 2 and gronk 2? for small but vertical challenging trips?
Anything too small for a B1200 should "realistically" be replaced by road vehicles in later years, I think. On the other hand, I had been planning to make some small industrial locos for industry sprites. I've not yet decided whether I should make them available to players too, either as rail vehicles or as trams...
NekoMaster wrote:It'd be kind of nice if we could have a Petrol (or Diesel Powered) Doodlebug for lesser used lines.... and/or later on something like the Budd RDC
Doesn't the Motron fit this niche?
NekoMaster wrote:after the AMF Lincoln, there isn't any diesels as powerful as that after it, the next diesel being the Grofe B1200, and thats only 1200 HP.
There are powerful electrics though, and I don't see much point in having electric and diesel locomotives with similar stats.
doxlulzem wrote:but hey ho, only Pikka knows the answer on his inspiration for this set. But American is the dominant theme for sure
I'm not sure I'd say "American is the dominant theme." ;) I could write more about the inspiration for the set as a whole or individual locomotives on my blog, if people would be interested?

I suppose another idea would be to extend the set outwards a bit. I'm not sure what, if anything, I want to do as far as "futuristic" locomotives go (I certainly don't want to do TTD-style maglev). Perhaps a couple of smaller 19th century engines, pre-General?

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Re: Pineapple Trains (10cc) - 32bpp/ez train set (1.2, Nov '

Post by NekoMaster » 12 Apr 2015 03:34

THe Motron is nice but it'd be nicer if we had a few more Multiple-Units or Railbuses, be it electric or diesel.

Also, not all players may use electrics, so having some modern powerful diesels may be nice, to fill the power gap. I usually reserve electric stuff for high speed or heavy duty lines, but I find diesels usually do the job for most things, like passenger and freight.
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Re: Pineapple Trains (10cc) - 32bpp/ez train set (1.2, Nov '

Post by rbos86 » 12 Apr 2015 05:21

A dubble deck passenger train would be nice...Useful also. They ride in a lot of places in Europe.
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Re: Pineapple Trains (10cc) - 32bpp/ez train set (1.2, Nov '

Post by NekoMaster » 12 Apr 2015 14:26

rbos86 wrote:A dubble deck passenger train would be nice...Useful also. They ride in a lot of places in Europe.
Yeah that would be nice, perhaps a double decker car for the 70s or 80s, and maybe a modern Double Decker Multiple Unit for modern times (like after 1990)
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Re: Pineapple Trains (10cc) - 32bpp/ez train set (1.2, Nov '

Post by PikkaBird » 13 Apr 2015 02:51

NekoMaster wrote:Also, not all players may use electrics, so having some modern powerful diesels may be nice, to fill the power gap.
Why don't those players use electrics? Why would any player use electrics if diesels fill all niches?
NekoMaster wrote:I usually reserve electric stuff for high speed or heavy duty lines, but I find diesels usually do the job for most things, like passenger and freight.
Sounds like the current balance is working well then. ;)
rbos86 wrote:A dubble deck passenger train would be nice...Useful also. They ride in a lot of places in Europe.
Unfortunately, the design philosophies behind Pineapple include all wagons being available from the beginning of the game, so double-decker carriages are out. They would also negate the more-passengers-per-wagon advantage of the monorail. Also, as far as dealing with too-many-passengers towards the end of the game goes, I believe this is caused by structural issues both with how towns grow and how towns generate passengers, so in my opinion the right place to deal with this is in a town set, not by increasing the capacities of passenger vehicles.

Of course, these design philosophies will be relaxed for any addon or backer-reward sets, so double-deckers will be a prime candidate for those. :)

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Re: Pineapple Trains (10cc) - 32bpp/ez train set (1.2, Nov '

Post by supermop » 13 Apr 2015 03:36

PikkaBird wrote: Of course, these design philosophies will be relaxed for any addon or backer-reward sets, so double-deckers will be a prime candidate for those. :)
I'm glad to hear that Pikka will accept my bribes for double deck trains!

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Re: Pineapple Trains (10cc) - 32bpp/ez train set (1.2, Nov '

Post by NekoMaster » 13 Apr 2015 03:52

Well if we can't have double decker cars, then what about Double Decker Commuter Trains? Perhaps have the passenger cars change graphics to resemble a double decker MU car
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Re: Pineapple Trains (10cc) - 32bpp/ez train set (1.2, Nov '

Post by rbos86 » 13 Apr 2015 06:06

rbos86 wrote:A dubble deck passenger train would be nice...Useful also. They ride in a lot of places in Europe.
PikkaBird wrote:...(text & answer)...

Of course, these design philosophies will be relaxed for any addon or backer-reward sets, so double-deckers will be a prime candidate for those. :)
Thanks for explenation and for thinking about it!
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Re: Pineapple Trains (10cc) - 32bpp/ez train set (1.2, Nov '

Post by m3henry » 20 Apr 2015 14:39

Personally, I feel that the set was complete already.

Though if you must add something. I would probably say the time line that the set covers already is good.
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Re: Pineapple Trains (10cc) - 32bpp/ez train set (1.2, Nov '

Post by arikover » 20 Apr 2015 17:47

PikkaBird wrote:
rbos86 wrote:A dubble deck passenger train would be nice...Useful also. They ride in a lot of places in Europe.
Unfortunately, the design philosophies behind Pineapple include all wagons being available from the beginning of the game, so double-decker carriages are out. They would also negate the more-passengers-per-wagon advantage of the monorail. Also, as far as dealing with too-many-passengers towards the end of the game goes, I believe this is caused by structural issues both with how towns grow and how towns generate passengers, so in my opinion the right place to deal with this is in a town set, not by increasing the capacities of passenger vehicles.
I don't think double-deckers should be added to Pineapple Trains, but just for the sake of argument:
- you could introduce early double deckers, like those, for instance.
- double-deckers have more-passenger-per-wagon, but monorails are also faster, so the bonus is not entirely negated.

Again, not an absolute fan of double-deckers. I played with Pineapple Trains a little, and I felt nothing was missing. Except maybe some futuristic rolling stock. Maybe a futuristic 3-part steam locomotive, or a fuel cell locomotive (like in NARS 2.03) although I have no idea of what they should look like.

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Re: Pineapple Trains (10cc) - 32bpp/ez train set (1.2, Nov '

Post by NekoMaster » 21 Apr 2015 12:06

Well there have been some modern concepts for high efficiency steam locomotives, but in the end they will never acchieve the energy efficiency of a diesel or electric, plus theres all the maintance and wages. A modern diesel or electric can be driven by one person, where as a steamer needs a driver and a fireman, except for smaller slow speed situations where the driver can pay attention and still fuel the fire box.

As I suggested before, if we can't have Bi-Level Cars, then what about some modern Tropical Bi-Level COmmuters like the 4D or H-Train? I still don't get the hostility towards Bi-Levels when they're used around the world in many countries, moving many commuters. Most bi-level are slow going and slow loading because of the shear number of people getting on and off (especially people from the upper level)
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Re: Pineapple Trains (10cc) - 32bpp/ez train set (1.2, Nov '

Post by arikover » 21 Apr 2015 12:21

NekoMaster wrote:Well there have been some modern concepts for high efficiency steam locomotives, but in the end they will never acchieve the energy efficiency of a diesel or electric, plus theres all the maintance and wages.
Well that was just a suggestion. Even though it's not realistic at all, it could be fun to play with. Maybe a (bit) more (un)realistic then: a solar locomotive with solar panels on the roof! Or maybe a solar EMU...
As for the fuel cell locomotive, and supposing it runs on hydrogen, it should reject water. So it would look like a modern diesel locomotive, but with a steam visual effect instead of diesel exhaust fumes. I guess it's purely eyecandy.
Sorry for the crazy suggestions!

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Re: Pineapple Trains (10cc) - 32bpp/ez train set (1.2, Nov '

Post by PikkaBird » 22 Apr 2015 10:53

NekoMaster wrote:Well there have been some modern concepts for high efficiency steam locomotives, but in the end they will never acchieve the energy efficiency of a diesel or electric, plus theres all the maintance and wages. A modern diesel or electric can be driven by one person, where as a steamer needs a driver and a fireman, except for smaller slow speed situations where the driver can pay attention and still fuel the fire box.
FWIW, there's no "realistic" differentiation between vehicle types in Pineapple. All vehicles use the same formula for calculating relative speeds, power and cost.

One thought I had was differentiating the existing vehicles a bit more to make space for a new modern EMU. Increasing the speed and power (and cost) of the VFT would make it less of a direct replacement for the Express, and that would leave room for a modern Express replacement. To prevent this new EMU making the monorail redundant, I might also buff the monorail capacity a bit.

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Re: Pineapple Trains (10cc) - 32bpp/ez train set (1.2, Nov '

Post by SD40-2 » 25 Apr 2015 04:20

I'd think that your suggestion of a late-game EMU as above is fine. I'd also like to see a DMU version, for flexibility reasons.

And is it too much to ask if they could be modeled on the Metroliner Trainset?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metroliner_%28train%29

A Late game diesel would also be nice. (AMF Dash - Dash 9-ish locomotive?)

Take my suggestions for what you will.

Edit - It seems that some things have already been suggested. There goes my late-game diesel.

Still like a Dash 9 or SD70MAC style diesel, both in performance and looks.

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Re: Pineapple Trains (10cc) - 32bpp/ez train set (1.2, Nov '

Post by PikkaBird » 25 Apr 2015 14:20

doxlulzem wrote: but all round I'd say it's a pseudo-American set.
In response to this charge :P I present the first in a series of Pineapple Trains "Manufacturer Profiles": Manufacturer profile – AMF.

This blog update also features a first look at a Pineapple Road Vehicle. :D

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Re: Pineapple Trains (10cc) - 32bpp/ez train set (1.2, Nov '

Post by Dave » 25 Apr 2015 16:00

I love all that - the fantasia and nostalgia are all part of enjoying the game.
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Re: Pineapple Trains (10cc) - 32bpp/ez train set (1.2, Nov '

Post by NekoMaster » 26 Apr 2015 10:31

Considering the idea of adding "Modern" or "Futuristic" steam locomotives, I never did disagree with the idea brought up, but it would be interesting. Perhaps we could have something like the Class 26 "red devil" from 1981 in South Africa, or the much more modern idea by David Wardale... the 5AT Advanced Technology Steam Locomotive (Or in a previous set I played :D ) I believe it was called the 5AT Wardale or the Wardale 5AT.

Another modern idea we could persue for steam could be a steam turbine, either a direct drive or a Steam Turbine Electric.

Going back a little, it might be interesting to have something like the 0-6-6-0 Leader in the 50's or 60's, giving fans of steam technology one last chance to play with steam until steam is rendered obsolete by Diesel and Electric (and eventually Monorail), perhaps something like the 0-6-6-0 Leader would be fairly powerful but not very fast in Pineapple Trains sense (perhaps 120-130 Km\h), which is alright for commuter use, but not all that useful for long distance passenger. On the other hand we could sacrifice something else like power or traction to make it faster, this way we keep things balanced.

In other news, if I could model things I'd definatly help out with suggestions i make, I have dabled in 3D modling but every time I try it just goes over my head. The best I've ever done with 3D modeling programs was edit the Weapon Models from Fallout 3, turning the Chinese rifle into a Carbine (Like the AK-47u) or a machine gun (like the RPK-47). Unless theres a dummies guide on blender for making and texturing models, I probably wont be able to help out with say, a addon set (which I'd love to do if I wasn't so stupid)
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Re: Pineapple Trains (10cc) - 32bpp/ez train set (1.3, July

Post by PikkaBird » 11 Jul 2015 09:13

1.3 is now available on Bananas.

This update is mostly about EMUs; additions and adjustments.

New vehicles:
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- The Corvine Interurban has been added as a very early electric locomotive with passenger capacity.
- The Unity Thunder has been introduced in 2008 with similar stats to the old VFT.

Vehicle adjustments:
- The Manley Express had an incorrect top speed due to a typo, so it's been bumped up by 8km/h.
- The VFT is now faster and more powerful (and more expensive).
- The VFT, Turbo, and Thunder now have the "tilt" flag set (this was supposed to be set before but wasn't); these trains should reach top speed more easily now.
- The Millenium X2001 has had a capacity increase, but now has a malus to cargo payment decay so it won't pay as well on long-distance routes. This will make it more useful
for its intended use - short-distance people-mover (eg between a city and an airport).

Other changes:
- A parameter to disable the variable running costs has been added.
- The default setting for the passenger car model parameter has been changed to "single vehicle with random special vehicles".

Because of these parameter changes, this release is marked as incompatible with earlier versions - you'll have to start a new game.

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Re: Pineapple Trains (10cc) - 32bpp/ez train set (1.3, July '15)

Post by R2T9 » 01 Sep 2015 14:31

I just started playing OpenTTD w/ Pineapple Trains. Must say, they are very nice. Are there any plans to add another monorail train or two? After all, there's only one monorail...not enough to justify building it.
Over the last few months, I've been working on some 32bpp train sprites. And here they are! Hopefully, this is the beginning of a number of 32bpp/ez newgrfs, and perhaps even a base set. :)
On your blog you mentioned Pineapple Ships and Pineapple Road Vehicles. How is their development coming? Will they be released separately or in the base set?

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