Canadian Graphics by OzTrans [End-User Queries] ...

[kamnet]

I found a bug in the Canadian trains set, but its in version 1.1

Is it present in version 1.6? If not, then it was fixed already.

Now in the 1.6 version there is a conflict with OpenGFX+Airports0.4.1

This was just addressed in the previous posts.

[Comm Cody]

I have another bug report to make.

When using the Deep Winter/Hot Summer or Mild Winter/ Hot Summer snow switch in the arctic, it causes forests not to spawn at all because it says that it is not on the snow line,

[wallyweb]

I have another bug report to make.

When using the Deep Winter/Hot Summer or Mild Winter/ Hot Summer snow switch in the arctic, it causes forests not to spawn at all because it says that it is not on the snow line,

I do not think that this is a bug ...
In OTTD Arctic climate, forests can only be built above the snow line. The Canadian Set (s) Hot Summer pushes the snow line to the highest possible level ... 15.

[Comm Cody]

I have another bug report to make.

When using the Deep Winter/Hot Summer or Mild Winter/ Hot Summer snow switch in the arctic, it causes forests not to spawn at all because it says that it is not on the snow line,

I do not think that this is a bug ...
In OTTD Arctic climate, forests can only be built above the snow line. The Canadian Set (s) Hot Summer pushes the snow line to the highest possible level ... 15.

Doesn't look like it in another game I ran with the Deep Winter/ Hot Summer. The snow line ended at around 13.

[wallyweb]

Doesn't look like it in another game I ran with the Deep Winter/ Hot Summer. The snow line ended at around 13.

There are four levels of snowy tiles:
- Full snow
- 3/4 snow
----------------- << snow line
- 1/2 snow
- 1/4 snow
The snow line lies between 3/4 snow and 1/2 snow.
So, at 13, you might be seeing 1/2 and 1/4 snow which are actually below the real snow line at 15.
Is this what you saw in your other game?

[OzTrans]

When using the Deep Winter/Hot Summer or Mild Winter/ Hot Summer snow switch in the arctic, it causes forests not to spawn at all because it says that it is not on the snow line,

It is not a bug with the variable snowline feature, but the issue is known. It will be addressed when we get to Canadian Industries.

In the meantime, what you can do to make it work is this :

Before starting a new game, disable the Variable Snowline Feature in CanRail and set a Static Snowline in the Map Generation window to a sufficiently low value. Then start the game, once you have your map with all those forests placed nicely, you can enable the Variable Snowline Feature in CanRail to any option. Changing the Snowline option is save game compatible. The only issue left is, forests won't loose the snow cover in summer.

As wallyweb has explained, even when you have the snowline on top level (OpenTTD 13, TTDPatch 15), there will always be a few specks of snow on mountain peaks. The same goes for level 2 (the lowest value in OpenTTD), snow will never really reach the coast. BTW, CanRail will push the snowline to 15, if the 'hot summer' option is chosen.

[OzTrans]

I found a bug in the Canadian trains set, but its in version 1.1 ...

Which can be reproduced in v1.6 and v2.0.

However, this is a problem with OpenTTD, the game, and not CanRail, the GRF. The game issues a call to CB11 and complains about it (see image) when the GRF confirms the vehicle length; but even worse, if the GRF lets the callback fail, the game will then use property 21 to (re)set the vehicle length followed by the error message.

There is nothing, I can do about it ...

I wish to report a bug with the Canadian Building Set and CanRail. When the tourist parameter is activated, tourists are classified as a freight cargo which requires a caboose in order to not be hit by the speed restriction. ...

Thank you for reporting it. This has been be fixed in 'Canadian Trains and Railways v2.0' [not yet available]. For v1.6 it will be too much work.

In v2.0, it will work as follows :

A train will be classified as passenger service, if only passenger coaches and mail vans are present. These can transport passengers, tourists (express passengers), mail, armoured cargo (valuables, gold and diamonds). Naturally, there is no need for a van.

Further to that, you will be able to have express cars in the train without the need for a van, provided there are no more than one third of all vehicles express cars. Express cars can carry mail, armoured cargo as well as goods, food and milk.

[peter1138]

http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Ca ... h_.2811.29

By definition, if the callback fails it will use the fixed value from property 21. This error message will only occur if the length is changed while the vehicle is not in a depot. This means, if the callback is tested, you must continue to supply the correct existing length if the vehicle is already out of the depot, it doesn't mean you can fail the callback.

[OzTrans]

By definition, if the callback fails it will use the fixed value from property 21. This error message will only occur if the length is changed while the vehicle is not in a depot. This means, if the callback is tested, you must continue to supply the correct existing length if the vehicle is already out of the depot, it doesn't mean you can fail the callback.

I'm aware of that, I just wanted to see what happens when the CB call fails.

There is still a bug in OpenTTD, the error message is issued, even when the CB results are the same ...

The situation :

3 trains (from top to bottom) all with a GP40-2(W) engine :
. 1) freight train
. 2) Push pull passenger with trailing ACPU HEP (cab car) unit.
. 3) Push pull passenger with leading ACPU HEP (cab car) unit.

Property 0x21 = 00h (ACPU HEP), = 01h (GP40-2(W))
CB 11 sets (in the depot) vehicle length for GP40 to 7/8th for train 1 and to 8/8th for trains 2 + 3. The latter, because the HEP unit is 8/8th and this is (was) required as they do swap places. On subsequent calls to CB11 (outside the depot), these settings are reiterated.

What happens ?

Train 1 does not display any abnormalities, or cause any grief.
Train 2 and 3 will trigger the error message, but only once, the first time any of the two hit the green paddock (turn around), the first one wins.

The error message is issued even when CB11 results are the same, they only differ against property 0x21; but the message still claimed 'vehicle length had changed'.

If the game is continued [unpaused], the weird message re 'Missing GRFs' !! is shown; however the games continues without issues, no more error messages and with no ill effects.

Now, this is still a very unsatisfactory situation. The specs state, that vehicle length must not be changed if out of the depot, but the game does call CB11 anyway, just for fun and wasting CPU cycles.

The above situation won't be a problem anymore, because I forgot the fact that the ACPU HEP unit and the GP40-2(W) engine (as of CanRail v2.0) are of the same length and therefore CB11 is no longer required and will be removed alltogether.

But, there are plenty of other cases. Most of them are dependent on the vehicle purchase date (year) and/or (manual) cargo/livery refitting done by players. If players then go and change the game date (in the cheats menu), something they will and can do and therefore changes to the vehicle purchase dates occur and these trains use CB11 and are outside the train depot we will have conflicts again; e.g. Reefer cars, having the same VEHID, i.e. early ones are 7/8th and late ones 8/8th. There are also freight wagons that have differing vehicle length depending on cargo carried.

It is ludicrous, that something that is not allowed is done anyway, like calling CB11 in a situation where it is forbidden.

[peter1138]

The specs state, that vehicle length must not be changed if out of the depot, but the game does call CB11 anyway, just for fun and wasting CPU cycles.
...
It is ludicrous, that something that is not allowed is done anyway, like calling CB11 in a situation where it is forbidden.

It is forbidden to change the value outside the depot.
However, it is not forbidden for the game to test the callback outside the depot.

The CB is most definitely needed when a game is loaded (including joining a network server), as otherwise the game will not know what the correct value should be. Of course, when a game is loaded the vehicle may not be in a depot.

[chuggles]

So just some general queries - I'm playing a game using canadian trains, and coming up to the diesel and electric times. Could I ask, which trains have the push-pull function? And of the post 50s trains, are there any that would be particularly good for modelling a long distance passanger run, and some that would be good at modelling local passenger trains?

I've enjoyed the set greatly so far, particularly the Hudson and the Electric Interurbans.

[OzTrans]

So just some general queries - I'm playing a game using canadian trains, and coming up to the diesel and electric times. Could I ask, which trains have the push-pull function? And of the post 50s trains, are there any that would be particularly good for modelling a long distance passanger run, and some that would be good at modelling local passenger trains?

'Push-Pull' Trains :

The following engines are push-pull capable :
• Go-Transit GMD GP40-2W
• Go-Transit GMD GP40TC
• Go-Transit/West Coast Express GMD F59PH
• CPR FP7 [red] passenger ¹
• CNR X10a tank engine ¹

Note: push-pull capable engines, that require a cab control car, are shown with half a passenger coach attached in the Vehicle Purchase Window. The other engines [1] may have a cab control car attached.

The following cab control cars are available :

• Go-Transit ACPU/APU HEP Unit
• CNR/Go-Transit passenger driving trailer
• CPR/Go-Transit/West Coast Express bi-level driving trailer

Note: cab control cars are shown with half a passenger coach attached in the Vehicle Purchase Window.

The following 'push-pull' trains do not require a cab control car :

• Werkspoor RAm TEE, with 3 lightweight passenger coaches.
• ONR 'Northlander' TEE headed by FP7 engine in ONR livery and 3 lightweight passenger coaches.
• BBD MR-90 EMU (2 car train sets)

Note: these engines [except FP7] are shown with half a passenger coach attached in the Vehicle Purchase Window.

For a detailed description see the user guide.

Local/Urban Passenger Service :

In the early years, favourites are EMC 'Doodlebug' (1920), Budd RDCs (1949). Once you have sufficient funds, you can look at the electric Interurbans. My favourite is the CC+F EP59a (Electric, 1952), built in 3-car sets [1 motor coach + 2 passenger coaches), then up to 3 sets per train; and the BBD EMU-90 EMU (electric, 1995)

Once the 'push-pull' trains become available, they are typical for urban services (see user guide for details).

Long Distance Passenger Service :

There are not that many really suitable diesel passenger engines until VIA Rail is born in 1967. The mainstay diesel is the GMD F-Unit (F7/F9) (1950, 144 km/h). Alternatives are the MLW RS18 (1956, 120 km/h), GMD GP38-2 (1980, 128 km/h). Of course you can stick with steam for another 10 or so years.

Good passenger trains/engines are the UAC/MLW Turbo (1967, 165 km/h*), BBD LRC-3 (1981, 200 km/h*), GMD F40PH (1986, 176 km/h*), GE P42DC (2001, 168 km/h*). Then in CanRail v2.0 we will have the BBD VIA 'Jet Train' (2014, 264 km/h*) and the GRP P50H (Fuelcell, 2019, 200 km/h*)

*) These engines will benefit, if run on the Highspeed Rail Track System allowing them to travel in excess of 160 km/h; also they have faster acceleration and curve speeds.

[ISA]

Then in CanRail v2.0 we will have

May I suggest one more thing... Running costs in depots, see here, is that something feasible?

[OzTrans]

Then in CanRail v2.0 we will have

... Running costs in depots, [...], is that something feasible?

Yes, it is. I've thought about it for quite some time. Now that it has been requested and discussed; I've implemented reduced running costs (-80 %) when a train is in a depot, stopped outside a depot or un/loading at a station. Compared to CanRail v1.x, running costs will be increased first by 20 % and then reduced by 80 % while waiting. Further to that, multi-headed engines (i.e. from the 2nd engine onwards) will have adjusted running costs; e.g. steam + 5% (need highly skilled drivers), diesel and electric - 20 % with some exceptions.

Because, it is very difficult to come up with a well balanced setting of running costs, I may recalculate them again by taking speed, power, reliability and TE into account. Also, I'm going to try to implement a system of player adjustable running costs; i.e. similar to the population adjustment in Canadian City Buildings (CanCity), so that players can adjust running costs globally (only within CanRail though) themselves, to make it easier or harder to play.

[ISA]

Those are very good news. Thanks Oz!

[chuggles]

Thanks! Excellent info. I've got about ten years to go (in which time I'll be optimising my freight network) and then I'll put the plan into action.

[oberhümer]

As far as I know, running costs are automatically zeroed in depots (tried once) no matter what the NewGRF specifies, even though they appear correct in the train view.

[ISA]

As far as I know, running costs are automatically zeroed in depots (tried once) no matter what the NewGRF specifies, even though they appear correct in the train view.

I think, that's not true... my income window in that case in current Canadian game wouldn't look the way as it does at the moment!

[OzTrans]

As far as I know, running costs are automatically zeroed in depots (tried once) no matter what the NewGRF specifies, even though they appear correct in the train view.

I think, that's not true... my income window in that case in current Canadian game wouldn't look the way as it does at the moment!

I just checked that and to clear it up ...

Train Running Costs :

OpenTTD w/original vehicles [no GRFs] ...

Code: Select all

In Depot (stopped)                              Nil
In Depot (cannot leave due to no free path)     Yes
Un/loading at station                           Yes
Waiting at path signals                         Yes
Waiting at other signals                        Yes
Moving ...                                      Yes
Stopped anywhere                                Nil

OpenTTD w/CanRail v2.0 ...

Code: Select all

In Depot (stopped)                              Nil
In Depot (cannot leave due to no free path)     Reduced
Un/loading at station                           Reduced
Waiting at path signals                         Reduced
Waiting at other signals                        Reduced
Moving ...                                      Full
Stopped anywhere                                Nil

Running cost shown in vehicle detail window is whatever is set via vehicle property or CB36 and does not take the vehicle state into account. TTDPatch has the same regime on a quick check.


EDIT: CanRail trains do now have reduced running costs when waiting at normal signals.

[Comm Cody]

Seems weird that Path Signals and Regular Signals both have different costs. You would assume all signals would be reduced.