MADMEN EVERYWHERE! [NUTS Unrealistic Train Set]

[ColdIce]

ok... some 2107 shots

[ColdIce]

and maglev

still, there are many bugs in this set (alignment issues) and maybe you have time to draw special passengers wagons for those magnificent steam loco (firestarter etc)

[kamnet]

These trains looks STRANGE! More importantly, they look very well drawn! Kudos!

[V453000 :)]

Oh thanks Look strange they do, some even too much.

Both graphical and technical form is still under development. I plan to de-draw many sprites to unify the style in which they are drawn. Which means for example early 1920-1950 engines and wagons will get enhancements or redrawing, and maglevs will get some touch as well, at least their wagons. In the end I would like to unify the style to the way how monorail or modern rail trains look.
Specific passenger wagons for each train are going to come later so far I think the current wagons do not look too bad.

The technical form is the stats of trains. I am currently testing various things and in the end I hope to make every single class on every rail type have its own special interesting points which should be considered when building. So it is not just about choosing between the few classes, but basically 3 times the amount.

And there are 2 whole new train classes coming in the future releases

[Gret]

Very nice)) I was conquered by Nyan cat and Dark energy

[Hamjoa]

Pretty cool looking set

Any plans to make faster things ? Seems a bit restrictive to not have any trains go faster than the current default lev4, and all the trains that do go at speeds in the 400+ km/h are restricted to intercity only.

[V453000 :)]

Pretty cool looking set

Any plans to make faster things ? Seems a bit restrictive to not have any trains go faster than the current default lev4, and all the trains that do go at speeds in the 400+ km/h are restricted to intercity only.

Glad you like it ... faster things are not too expectable. First off I think that the speeds are high enough as they are, especially if you use the Fast class. Maglev trains with 400, 500 or 600 km/h are fast enough in my opinion. Any faster than that is rather ridiculously fast and to keep their acceleration reasonable, it would have to look even more ridiculous as they would just have to shoot forward so quickly from 0km/h to max speed.
And generally the set applies a logic of: you either have acceleration with low speed, or you have bad acceleration with faster trains, but never both. Making some trains even faster would mean that I would have to decrease their acceleration even further - which I do not want to do - for that there is the Lev4 in the end. And to be honest I do not distinguish 643 from 600 km/h visually.

So there would be the remaining option to multiply all train speeds to increase all of them and keep balance between all engines.
However this would greatly break the following:
the train speeds are often adapted to the maximum speeds of curves. For example:
217km/h of the last rail Medium train: 4 tile long curve to keep max speed
160km/h of the last rail Strong train: 3 tile long curve to keep max speed
302km/h of the last monorail Medium train: 3 tile long curve (with tilt 20% bonus) to keep max speed
211km/h of the last monorail Local train: 2 tile long curve (with 20% tilt bonus) to keep max speed
So in total it is a lot more interesting to choose from trains because it is not just about speed / acceleration, but also about the curve speeds as lower speed trains make the best of their respective curve lengths. (in case you have longer trains than max curve of course)

Intercity is of course the fastest, because it has a simple restriction - you cannot transport cargo with it.

In the end, it is possible that there might be a faster bonus than the current trains. But if that happens, it will not:
1. have anywhere near good acceleration
2. be much faster than 600kmh, if even 600
3. be a class of trains - just individual engine(s)

Thank you for your feedback!
I will see what could be done about it, but do not really expect any faster trains in the core of the set.

[Hamjoa]

Thanks for the reply!

I agree that too fast speeds make things silly (i tried that vacumtube grf, where trains can travel up to 4000 km/h, which was a bit over the top, cool grf otherwise though), but i would really like a grf where i can get a steady progression of trains throughout the years and through new rail types, but also in the end have a train that is at least on par with the lev4, so that i dont "have" (in terms of progression) to use a default train that i have already used for nearly 15 years of TT.
On the top of my head, as i am unable to check ingame right now, is that the top speed of a cargo carrying maglev is around 300 km/h, that is fairly low in my opinion.

Also i am not sure realism is a word that should be used together with this trainset (regarding the slug train or nyancat for example )

[V453000 :)]

Thanks for the reply!

I agree that too fast speeds make things silly (i tried that vacumtube grf, where trains can travel up to 4000 km/h, which was a bit over the top, cool grf otherwise though), but i would really like a grf where i can get a steady progression of trains throughout the years and through new rail types, but also in the end have a train that is at least on par with the lev4, so that i dont "have" (in terms of progression) to use a default train that i have already used for nearly 15 years of TT.
On the top of my head, as i am unable to check ingame right now, is that the top speed of a cargo carrying maglev is around 300 km/h, that is fairly low in my opinion.

Also i am not sure realism is a word that should be used together with this trainset (regarding the slug train or nyancat for example )

Yes, vac trains are a prime example of stupidly fast trains from my point of view.

Well NUTS is based on such progression as you are poiting at, the only difference is that max speed of cargo maglevs is 500, not 643 like of Lev4.
However NUTS maglevs are a lot more useful as they accelerate a lot better, thus you will be able to handle your network with much more precision. The NUTS maglevs also behave very differently in regard to wagons - fast loading speeds and low capacity is exactly the opposite of original trains. Not to mention that they do not slow down on Silicon tubular bridges etc.

I understand the "disappointment" of having a train which is slower than the original trains, but really, I do not think it is too valid to compare trains from different sets. You could also say that 2cc set is automatically better because it has 60t capacity of wagons on rail, while NUTS has only 40 - the same for speed; saying that 643 is automatically better than 500.
Compare vehicles inside of the set. At that point you would only care whether it optically looks fast enough (which I think 500 really does), also because you would know that your trains are doing the top speed of all trains available for the set.

If you would compare all sets available, you would always just get one train with ultimate throughput - where your "progression" would probably end, and that would be horribly boring .
In fact, the "one ultimate train" is exactly what the concept of NUTS is all about. All last generation trains from whichever class should be comparable to another throughput-wise. Therefore you have a whole large variety of trains and you choose basically either just the train that you like, or you can have some detailed reasons applying to your network - for example if you have a hilly map and you have problems with hills, you can use the Strong engines which accelerate greatly and climb hills easily - or you could attempt to make all full trains go downhill (or use some stepped climb) on such a map, and use fast trains - as the downhills would help them with the acceleration. Or you can choose monorail if you are having problems with space - because monorail allows for shorter curve lenghts in NUTS. But you never choose the "best engine" throughput-wise, and that adds a lot of depth to the game in my opinion.

P.S. The set us UNrealistic, not Realistic for a reason

[Emperor Jake]

Will it be possible to make this set compatible with other sets? Right now I have to use the invisible engine to be able to combine NUTS vehicles with 2CC set (and other) trains. This occurs only when trying to attach non-NUTS wagons to a NUTS engine, the other way round works fine. Is this intentional?

[V453000 :)]

Yes that is intended, I dont quite plan to change that. Adding any other wagons to NUTS engines would most likely break the balance between train classes. Therefore you can use the wagons with other sets, but you cannot attach anything outside NUTS to the engines.
But honestly, why would you use NUTS and any other train set in one game?

[Purno]

Yes that is intended, I dont quite plan to change that. Adding any other wagons to NUTS engines would most likely break the balance between train classes. Therefore you can use the wagons with other sets, but you cannot attach anything outside NUTS to the engines.
But honestly, why would you use NUTS and any other train set in one game?

I doubt balance is an issue for people who play with NUTS

[Emperor Jake]

Yes that is intended, I dont quite plan to change that. Adding any other wagons to NUTS engines would most likely break the balance between train classes. Therefore you can use the wagons with other sets, but you cannot attach anything outside NUTS to the engines.
But honestly, why would you use NUTS and any other train set in one game?

One train set is never enough for me. When using NUTS I find I fill up my passenger trains pretty fast due to the low capacities, which calls for double deck trains. Also I like to use different types of passenger carriages for long distance, regional, local trains etc. I guess my invisible leading engine will continue to be useful for this purpose. For Freedom on the rails!
It still makes it more difficult when trying to autoreplace them though...

[V453000 :)]

I am sorry but I do not understand what do you mean by that Purno, balance between differemt trains is like the main idea of NUTS and people who play with it usually do care about classes a lot.

Jake: Isnt it nicer to have trains from one set combine with wagons from that same set? Besides, if you added, say, some double-deckers and wanted to use them with NUTS trains, suddenly all trains able to haul that wagon would become automatically better than the other classes, as they are balanced vs. the other train classes of NUTS.
By the way, since one of the more recent versions, NUTS has all passenger capacities doubled so the issue with way too low capacity should be pretty much solved. (although you will of course find many vehicles in other sets which are better)

[V453000 :)]

As of yesterday I have released version 0.2.0 of NUTS on bananas.
Here I bring you a few screenshots from my current game, as all of the most recent changes featured maglev redrawing, here they go:

1. The factory, here we can see the randomized goods trains with containers, crates, lumber, glass, barrels and whatever else. Also steel trains with their large load of steel are here. Livestock cars load random animals - cows, pigs, ducks and sheep.

2. The sawmill - home of wood trains, also goods can be seen here.

3. Some junction with coal, iron ore and again the omnipresent goods trains Most notably you can see the semi-transparent hopper wagons.

[Doorslammer]

Yes that is intended, I dont quite plan to change that. Adding any other wagons to NUTS engines would most likely break the balance between train classes. Therefore you can use the wagons with other sets, but you cannot attach anything outside NUTS to the engines.
But honestly, why would you use NUTS and any other train set in one game?

I doubt balance is an issue for people who play with NUTS

Great mental picture, by the way.

Nothing like a bit of imagination and... drugs. Yeah, must be drugs. This can't really be explained.

[Kogut]

Very interesting and funny but AI support is broken - AIEngine::CanPullCargo returns true for combinations like maglev logic engine and coal. ( http://noai.openttd.org/api/trunk/class ... 7405eb0f14 )

I attached AI that allows to test fix (now it will decide to use logic engine, build track and fail to create train, after fix it should find normal engine) and AI log in game with broken newgrf.

[V453000 :)]

Doorslammer:

AI isnt broken, it is unsupported.

[Yexo]

Very interesting and funny but AI support is broken - AIEngine::CanPullCargo returns true for combinations like maglev logic engine and coal.

Note:
This function is not exhaustive; a true here does not mean that the vehicle can pull the wagons, a false does mean it can't.

[Kogut]

I know, but I understood it as "it will work if newgrf implements this and its author may decide to leave it not working", and this disclaimer covers that this functionality is not provided and guaranteed by OpenTTD (like most API functions) but should be implemented by newgrf.