[OTTD] Dutch Road Furniture

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KasperVld
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Re: [OTTD] Dutch Road Furniture 0.6.0 (2012/01/19)

Post by KasperVld »

absolutely love this set, nice job with the latest update too! I did however find a bug, although I'm not sure where the problem lies. It's present in both 0.5.1 and 0.6.0


To recreate the problem, start editting a scenario (doesn't really matter which), build a town and put a highway right through it, like this

Image

Then, click the town's 'expand' button, which will result in the objects being removed by the town to build new houses, as such

Image

The problem gets even worse if you have entries/exits to the highway, because then it also replaces the central divider

Image
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Re: [OTTD] Dutch Road Furniture 0.6.0 (2012/01/19)

Post by FooBar »

Hmmm, may be a bug in OpenTTD or an inconsistent description in the NML manual.

Either way, the objects that have this problem have the "OBJ_FLAG_ANYTHING_REMOVE" flag set. This allows you to build something else on top of the object without having to remove it first. According to the description in the manual, the behaviour should be the same as bought land, which towns obviously don't build houses on.

I'll investigate this further to see if the game is wrong or that this indeed is intentional behaviour and that I must remove that property (and subsequently fix the NML manual).

Either way, thanks for reporting! Of course I'll post the outcome here. :)

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Re: [OTTD] Dutch Road Furniture 0.6.0 (2012/01/19)

Post by KasperVld »

Hmm, the problem might be that in the scenario editor you're not building as a company, thus the objects don't have any owner?
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Re: [OTTD] Dutch Road Furniture 0.6.0 (2012/01/19)

Post by Leanden »

KasperVld wrote:Hmm, the problem might be that in the scenario editor you're not building as a company, thus the objects don't have any owner?
This is entirely possible, as bought land would only be present while playing, not in scenario editor, this isn't something i've tested though as i only use new objects in gameplay as opposed to the editor.
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Re: [OTTD] Dutch Road Furniture 0.6.0 (2012/01/19)

Post by jor[D]1 »

Had the same problem. The funny thing is the signs (Blue ones next to the road) are not deleted by expanding city's in the editor.
I was hoping this set could stop city's building next to highways.

Maybe a nice addition is to unlock the opposit hardshoulder always. So wide rural highways without barrier can be built (2x2). Also in some on/of ramps I needed them.
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Re: [OTTD] Dutch Road Furniture 0.6.0 (2012/01/19)

Post by FooBar »

jor[D]1 wrote:The funny thing is the signs (Blue ones next to the road) are not deleted by expanding city's in the editor.
Funny, but it makes sense if you know the code: these signs don't have said flag set. Try to overbuild them yourself: you can't without removing them first.

What do you mean with "opposit hardshoulder"? In both left and right side drive the shoulders are the same object, so there's only one version of it. So if you want a shoulder at the other side of the road you can already do that.
If that's not what you mean, then maybe you can explain with a screenshot.

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Re: [OTTD] Dutch Road Furniture 0.6.0 (2012/01/19)

Post by KasperVld »

I think he means something like this:
http://g.co/maps/7j742

ps. great set, as I said earlier, but things I still miss (I'm almost ashamed to ask)
- hard shoulder 'start' tiles, in combination with the highway sign
- highway and speed signs in combination with a hard shoulder tile
- the hard shoulder tile being able to 'produce' a line on all sides
- there's a small graphical glitch

I made a pic to demonstrate why these would be nice to have (fixed) :)

Image
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Re: [OTTD] Dutch Road Furniture 0.6.0 (2012/01/19)

Post by Quast65 »

Works fine in my game, I think you used the wrong tile. You should use the end-of-hardshoulder tile with highwaysign, it will automatically put the right sign next to the hardshoulder. (picture 1)

And a little tip for the people building highways, you only need to put a one-way sign on the road at the start of the highway or at the on/off-ramps, you don't have to place one-way signs all over the highway. It's very ugly ;-) (picture 2)
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Re: [OTTD] Dutch Road Furniture 0.6.0 (2012/01/19)

Post by FooBar »

KasperVld wrote:(I'm almost ashamed to ask)
Don't be :P
KasperVld wrote:- hard shoulder 'start' tiles, in combination with the highway sign
Exactly like Quast65 explained. The shoulder end + highway end sign will produce a shoulder start + highway start sign when used at the beginning of a hard shoulder. The next version of the readme will contain a note about that.
KasperVld wrote:- highway and speed signs in combination with a hard shoulder tile
Possible, I added it as feature request to the issue tracker.
KasperVld wrote:- the hard shoulder tile being able to 'produce' a line on all sides
I'm not making that. Too much sprites and too many lines of code. For me that's too much effort for too little benefit. I'll accept patches to this extent, but am not doing it myself ;)
KasperVld wrote:- there's a small graphical glitch
That's actually by design :D I made that line shorter on purpose, so that you don't have the line starting on the very edge of the asphalt. But I feel that has come back to bite me :P

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Re: [OTTD] Dutch Road Furniture 0.6.0 (2012/01/19)

Post by jor[D]1 »

See attachment for example where opposite hard shoulder endings are needed. Because there they don't turn automatically.
If the UK endings (arrow) are enabled you can pick the UK version which is already turned.

A parameter to select set is also ok. Eg a selector with: Autodetect, Righthand drive, Left handdrive, Both.

Got some (I think cool) addition ideas too.
A center barrier with light pole. As 3rd and 4th rotation of the current center barrier.
A 3rd lane for one direction on a own tile (without barrier). (so it's possible to make a two wide center without barrier between the highway directions (Rural highways :mrgreen: ))
An Eyecandy Fuel Station. (for example 2 tiles long and 1 wide, comes instead of a piece of shoulder)
A U shaped piece of shoulder and Parallel | | would also come handy, for example at exits you sometimes need them.
<see second screen for u shaped example, the barrier ending to the Other highway doesn't look good either because, there is a part hard shoulder missing then and gras is showing through a little gap>

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Re: [OTTD] Dutch Road Furniture 0.6.0 (2012/01/19)

Post by FooBar »

What if I'd have them recognize the third lane endings as well? Then the will turn automatically in case of the example in your screenshot. That's very easy to do actually (not as easy as just allowing the left side version, but easier than adding a parameter).

Please note that in the final release the left side versions won't show up in your list any more. I can't do that right now as that will break compatibility with existing savegames.
jor[D]1 wrote:A center barrier with light pole.
I've been thinking of that myself as well. It may have to become a separate object though, as the current median is already 5000 lines of code long. Adding two more views to that would make it 10000 lines! Quite a lot :)
jor[D]1 wrote:A 3rd lane for one direction on a own tile (without barrier).
I'll have to see how much work this is. Obviously all graphics are there, but apart from a new object for this you would need two additional lane end objects. And maybe more. Code-wise it's more like hours work than minutes... So I accept patches to this extent :P
jor[D]1 wrote:An Eyecandy Fuel Station
FIRS has fuel stations :D
But draw them and I'll see to include them.
jor[D]1 wrote:A U shaped piece of shoulder and Parallel | | would also come handy, for example at exits you sometimes need them.
I never intended for shoulders to be used on the 'wrong' side of the road. That's basically why they're 'missing'. I'll think about it.


I'm glad you guys enjoy the set!

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Re: [OTTD] Dutch Road Furniture 0.6.0 (2012/01/19)

Post by jor[D]1 »

If you let them turn towards transitions don't forget to let them also turn towards Signs and overhead signs. :wink:
Hard shoulders on the wrong side are more common then you might expect. They are used often as preplanned future expansion. In the Netherlands I know 2 of those places by hard, The A4 at the ringvaart aquaduct and the A5. I think there are more "wrong" hard shoulders.
Parallel shoulders can also be used to let a other B-road or highway run parallel to a highway with just one tile in between. (happens often at intersections, also in OTTD)

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Re: [OTTD] Dutch Road Furniture 0.6.0 (2012/01/19)

Post by FooBar »

They already recognize the following things: item_vluchtstrook_1, item_matrixborden_portaal, item_matrixborden_portaal_mirrored, item_wegwijzer_portaal, item_wegwijzer_portaal_mirrored. But I'll go through the complete list and add the ones that are missing.

Left side shoulders are actually mandatory in case of 4 lane motorways in the Netherlands. In case of 2 lane motorways they're very uncommon. In case of 3 lane motorways it depends a bit on the situation. As in TTD you'd only run into the situation with 2 lanes, I decide that these left side shoulders were not necessary. But I guess if the end pieces work in all cases you'll have something to work with.

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Re: [OTTD] Dutch Road Furniture 0.6.0 (2012/01/19)

Post by KasperVld »

But the most important thing is that we don't forget how smexy this all looks ingame :)

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Re: [OTTD] Dutch Road Furniture 0.6.0 (2012/01/19)

Post by jor[D]1 »

Nice roundabount interchange.


.....

Hopes FooBar likes this when i finish it...
Ps. I know the corners are not yet correct, etc.
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Re: [OTTD] Dutch Road Furniture 0.6.0 (2012/01/19)

Post by KasperVld »

Love it, but how would people get back on the road? :P
Also, how about a few different ones, the red-yellow is obviously Shell, but maybe you could also make BP, Texaco or unmanned Tango :)
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Re: [OTTD] Dutch Road Furniture 0.6.0 (2012/01/19)

Post by jor[D]1 »

Shel station.png
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:P Now they can get back. I was thinking to use other companies for the other directions.

it is 0% sure this ever will come in this set.
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Re: [OTTD] Dutch Road Furniture 0.6.0 (2012/01/19)

Post by FooBar »

Hey, that looks pretty good actually!
If you continue on this foot I'm pretty sure it'll be added.

Some different variants indeed would be nice. I can code it so that you get a random one each time you build one.

Personally I'd make the "uitvoegstrook" and "invoegstrook" (whatever they're called in English I coudn't find nor remember) a bit longer, possibly using 5 tiles. Then you can also make them a bit wider and continue the shoulder next to them. But that's up to you :)

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Re: [OTTD] Dutch Road Furniture 0.6.0 (2012/01/19)

Post by Leanden »

Ye those turn offs are far too short. :D
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Re: [OTTD] Dutch Road Furniture 0.6.0 (2012/01/19)

Post by FooBar »

KasperVld wrote:absolutely love this set, nice job with the latest update too! I did however find a bug, although I'm not sure where the problem lies. It's present in both 0.5.1 and 0.6.0


To recreate the problem, start editting a scenario (doesn't really matter which), build a town and put a highway right through it, like this

http://i.imgur.com/UmOh3.png

Then, click the town's 'expand' button, which will result in the objects being removed by the town to build new houses, as such

http://i.imgur.com/AxW6f.jpg

The problem gets even worse if you have entries/exits to the highway, because then it also replaces the central divider

http://i.imgur.com/bJb1e.jpg
I've done some testing, and I think the problem is that you had the magic bulldozer enabled. As long as you don't have that enabled, towns will leave the objects as they are.

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