[OTTD] The Vactrain Set

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Re: [OTTD] Vacuum Tube Train (Vactrain) Set

Post by Supercheese » 02 Jun 2011 07:58

Djek wrote:Why keep "over-the-top" fastness, limited to just passengers and mail, Whilest TTD originaly was developt for the finesse between speed and deliverance? (The longer it takes from A to B, the less income is generated). So There is my question: Why only passengers and mail over 4000 Km/h, and all other "businesses" limited bij MagLev4 on topspeed 643 Km/h ??
The choice was made by the GRF author, that's all.
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Re: [OTTD] Vacuum Tube Train (Vactrain) Set

Post by Terkhen » 02 Jun 2011 08:08

The Mail wagon can also carry Goods.

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Re: [OTTD] Vacuum Tube Train (Vactrain) Set

Post by Emperor Jake » 02 Jun 2011 08:39

Yes, the Vactrain is limited to passengers and express cargos, and will probably remain that way. The reasoning is that in the future, something like coal (if it still exists, which it always will in OTTD) will still be transported by long and slow freight trains. In short, it's realism :twisted: However, if anyone really wants to carry the heavy cargoes, draw a cargo vactrain and I will gladly code it as an extension set. Or I might consider it when I have more time.

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Re: [OTTD] Vacuum Tube Train (Vactrain) Set

Post by Voyager One » 02 Jun 2011 09:55

Regarding this "realism" and coal-hauling vac-trains... personally, I can't imagine a coal loading/unloading station within a tube so... I agree with Jake - completely unreal even for OTTD standards.
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Re: [OTTD] Vacuum Tube Train (Vactrain) Set

Post by planetmaker » 02 Jun 2011 09:59

Voyager One wrote:I can't imagine a coal loading/unloading station within a tube so
May sound harsh, but your imagination is quite limited then... how do you think coal is hauled off a sub-surface mine? Or what would a station on the Moon's or Mars' surface look like? Hm..

/me falls asleep due to yet again a thinly veiled 'realism' argument.

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Re: [OTTD] Vacuum Tube Train (Vactrain) Set

Post by Voyager One » 02 Jun 2011 10:03

OK, you have a point. :bow: I haven't thought of those you've mentioned.

And it wasn't about realism, NOT AGAIN! :lol: I just made a comment based on my, properly said, limited imagination. I bow down to valid arguments! :D
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Re: [OTTD] Vacuum Tube Train (Vactrain) Set

Post by Terkhen » 02 Jun 2011 10:19

planetmaker wrote: Or what would a station on the Moon's or Mars' surface look like? Hm..
I would love to see that in OpenTTD :P

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Re: [OTTD] Vacuum Tube Train (Vactrain) Set

Post by Emperor Jake » 02 Jun 2011 10:29

That makes one think, how do the passengers actually get into the train if it's in a tube? There are several options:
- There are airtight sealed doors that line up with the train doors (like found on some metros and airport movers, but airtight)
- The tube surrounding the platform is sealed off and air is let in to ease loading/unloading the train.

The reason that there I don't want coal-hauling vactrains is because it isn't feasible in real life - I never build coal-hauling high speed trains or maglevs because they don't exist. Like I said, I may consider it for the sake of those players that want it, when I have time :wink:

BTW: A mineral loading station on the Moon or Mars would have no tube at all - all trains on the Moon would inherently be vactrains. All you need is pressurised carriages for passengers and roller-coaster style track to make sure the trains stay on. :mrgreen: And you can see the train on Mars on the first page - with somewhat unnecessary tubes :P
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Re: [OTTD] Vacuum Tube Train (Vactrain) Set

Post by Sufkop » 02 Jun 2011 13:44

Emperor Jake wrote:And you can see the train on Mars on the first page - with somewhat unnecessary tubes :P
Other name for 'Mars': Desert. :lol:
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Re: [OTTD] Vacuum Tube Train (Vactrain) Set

Post by DJ Nekkid » 03 Jun 2011 16:22

JAKE:
Wrt stations: The way i see it, the stations would most likely be like they are today, but when the train is filled and such, it goes into a 'airlock' between the open air, and the vacumized tunnels, there the door on the 'backside' is closed, air removed, front door is opened, and 20 minutes later you are at 8000kmh for the next 20 minutes :)

Think of a LIM-launched rollercoaster...
You enter the wagons, the train goes about a trainlength forward, the launching system is started, and a few seconds later you are screaming your 3G ass of :)
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Re: [OTTD] Vacuum Tube Train (Vactrain) Set

Post by Emperor Jake » 05 Jun 2011 06:06

DJ Nekkid wrote:JAKE:
Wrt stations: The way i see it, the stations would most likely be like they are today, but when the train is filled and such, it goes into a 'airlock' between the open air, and the vacumized tunnels, there the door on the 'backside' is closed, air removed, front door is opened, and 20 minutes later you are at 8000kmh for the next 20 minutes :)
Unfortunately that's impossible to replicate in OTTD - but it would be too realistic anyway :twisted:
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Re: [OTTD] Vacuum Tube Train (Vactrain) Set

Post by Wasila » 05 Jun 2011 21:02

This looks very interesting - will try it out soon.
Were you running NuTracks and 2cc Trainset? NuTracks uses up all available railtype IDs when 2cc Trainset is loaded, but you can change the parameters and disable the metro tracks, for example. Future versions will possibly use the Planning track slot, if I figure out how...
This surprised me. I guessed that VacTrains just replace Maglev? In my mind, this is, after all, a superior version of Maglev. If not, perhaps that is an option to deal with this problem.

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Re: [OTTD] Vacuum Tube Train (Vactrain) Set

Post by Pendrokar » 07 Jun 2011 09:58

Emperor Jake wrote:That makes one think, how do the passengers actually get into the train if it's in a tube? There are several options:
- There are airtight sealed doors that line up with the train doors (like found on some metros and airport movers, but airtight)
- The tube surrounding the platform is sealed off and air is let in to ease loading/unloading the train.
Those would work.

Another way is to pickup the tube/tubes that the train is in and replace it with an empty one. That is if you would like to leave that space for another train, while the first is loading and/or unloading.

But the vactrains are not really superior versions of maglevs, only airtight and therefore probably heavier. Vactrains probably would not have problems driving onto simple maglev rails. But I guess then they would be even slower than original maglevs.

Since OpenTTD has the switch between railroads and electric railroads, can you make the tubes be able to connect with simple maglev rails while only allowing vactrains to travel through both and the vactrain having slower speed when not in a vacuum tube?

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Re: [OTTD] Vacuum Tube Train (Vactrain) Set

Post by Emperor Jake » 07 Jun 2011 12:39

Wasila wrote:I guessed that VacTrains just replace Maglev?
No, Vactrain is its own railtype. It is superior to maglev, but will remain a separate system, and it is intended to use maglev and vactrain together in the same company, where you use vactrain for your most lucrative routes and maglev for the more "ordinary" ones. This is just like in the early 20th century, when you might electrify your most lucrative route, and later high speed rail and then maglev (by which time most of our ordinary routes might be the once-lucrative electric railway)

So anyway, vactrain will remain a separate and incompatible system to Maglev (even though it would be possible to code - in fact very easy :wink: ). It would be extremely uneconomic to run a vactrain in the open air because it would squander its capability of running in the vactubes, and it would be unaerodynamic because of its flat front which is there to make more usable transport space. Technically it would also need to stop at an airlock when leaving/entering the vactube.

However, a feasible future additional tracktype wcould be the "partial vactube" - which would be available earlier and only contain a partial vacuum as opposed to an (almost) full vacuum. It would of course not offer the same speeds, but it would be compatible. Flat fronted trains wold get a severe slowdown, encouraging the use of streamlined vactrains.
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Re: [OTTD] Vacuum Tube Train (Vactrain) Set

Post by Wasila » 07 Jun 2011 14:11

Emperor Jake wrote:
Wasila wrote:I guessed that VacTrains just replace Maglev?
No, Vactrain is its own railtype. It is superior to maglev, but will remain a separate system, and it is intended to use maglev and vactrain together in the same company, where you use vactrain for your most lucrative routes and maglev for the more "ordinary" ones. This is just like in the early 20th century, when you might electrify your most lucrative route, and later high speed rail and then maglev (by which time most of our ordinary routes might be the once-lucrative electric railway)

So anyway, vactrain will remain a separate and incompatible system to Maglev (even though it would be possible to code - in fact very easy :wink: ). It would be extremely uneconomic to run a vactrain in the open air because it would squander its capability of running in the vactubes, and it would be unaerodynamic because of its flat front which is there to make more usable transport space. Technically it would also need to stop at an airlock when leaving/entering the vactube.

However, a feasible future additional tracktype wcould be the "partial vactube" - which would be available earlier and only contain a partial vacuum as opposed to an (almost) full vacuum. It would of course not offer the same speeds, but it would be compatible. Flat fronted trains wold get a severe slowdown, encouraging the use of streamlined vactrains.
I understand, but perhaps there could be a possibility to download a version which replaces maglev (or, if possible, have it as a parameter)? Particularly as maglev doesn't get much love anyway. If not for the long term, then at least as a temporary quick fix (correct me if I'm wrong) to fix NuTracks incompatibility. Don't get me wrong - I still appreciate your work!

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Re: [OTTD] Vacuum Tube Train (Vactrain) Set

Post by Ailure » 22 Jun 2011 11:46

Emperor Jake wrote:The reason that there I don't want coal-hauling vactrains is because it isn't feasible in real life - I never build coal-hauling high speed trains or maglevs because they don't exist. Like I said, I may consider it for the sake of those players that want it, when I have time :wink:
Personally I find it more intresting to have vactrains/maglev kept to passengers and express goods, not cause of realism but for making gameplay more interesting when it comes to mixing things up. I always liked the mix of railways and maglev i wind up with at my industries, with maglev used for the express goods. I can imagine myself doing the same thing with vactrains.

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Re: [OTTD] Vacuum Tube Train (Vactrain) Set

Post by Darker » 18 Aug 2011 10:21

Very nice train set anyway. But
1. Tracks are too expensive. A have 440 sqr track, which is absolutely straight. It cost me about 146.6milions (3 tracks=1milion). The train ears 4 milions per year. It will repay after 36 years then.
2. Trains has to weak power. On mentioned track, train gets maximally on 1/2 of max speed. It has no vagons, only trains.

Also there are no graphics for building panel, depot is same as monorail.
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Re: [OTTD] Vacuum Tube Train (Vactrain) Set

Post by Emperor Jake » 18 Aug 2011 12:21

Darker wrote:1. Tracks are too expensive. A have 440 sqr track, which is absolutely straight. It cost me about 146.6milions (3 tracks=1milion). The train ears 4 milions per year. It will repay after 36 years then.
They're meant to be that way. Building giant airtight tubes and sucking all the air out of them is not cheap :twisted:
Darker wrote:2. Trains has to weak power. On mentioned track, train gets maximally on 1/2 of max speed. It has no vagons, only trains.
What type of train was it? If it's the Experimental one, it's meant to be that way - it means they haven't mastered the technology yet. Wait a few more years for the next one.
Darker wrote:Also there are no graphics for building panel, depot is same as monorail.
I might get around to drawing those one day...
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Re: [OTTD] Vacuum Tube Train (Vactrain) Set

Post by Darker » 20 Aug 2011 10:20

I've now played with GRF, but the train doesn't to run faster on whole map track. (2000sqr)
I've given it FF FF speed and power. Max speed was 5300
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Re: [OTTD] Vacuum Tube Train (Vactrain) Set

Post by Terkhen » 20 Aug 2011 11:22

Darker: Did you checked that air_drag is still zero?

Emperor Jake: Have you reconsidered creating a repository for this set on the devzone? That way it would be simpler for me or anyone else interested to provide patches.

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