FIRS Industry Set - 3.0.12 released 18th February 2019

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Re: FIRS Industry Set - 3.0.12 released 18th February 2019

Post by andythenorth »

phobos2077 wrote:
16 Nov 2019 21:30
- Is there any plans to add day length support to FIRS?
No. I am somewhat opposed to all daylength patches, they will never work, and they fragment the game whilst introducing unwanted problems. :|

You could fork FIRS and modify production values :arrow: https://github.com/andythenorth/firs

The majority of industries use one of 5 templates ("templates/industry_*.pynml"). These contain 'produce' blocks, and changing the base production would be a matter of inserting a multiplier there. This may not cover all industries, and may cause broken calculations, constants or strings elsewhere, but it's possibly close enough.
- I see new industries being created during the game. But I disabled closing of secondary industries. Does that mean that the number of industries will increase until I have no more free blocks on the map? :o
For a specific map size, OpenTTD targets maintaining a specific count of industries on the map. So no, the map shouldn't get full of industries, new industries will be rarely built unless another industry has closed :)

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Re: FIRS Industry Set - 3.0.12 released 18th February 2019

Post by phobos2077 »

andythenorth wrote:
17 Nov 2019 08:15
phobos2077 wrote:
16 Nov 2019 21:30
- Is there any plans to add day length support to FIRS?
No. I am somewhat opposed to all daylength patches, they will never work, and they fragment the game whilst introducing unwanted problems. :|

You could fork FIRS and modify production values :arrow: https://github.com/andythenorth/firs

The majority of industries use one of 5 templates ("templates/industry_*.pynml"). These contain 'produce' blocks, and changing the base production would be a matter of inserting a multiplier there. This may not cover all industries, and may cause broken calculations, constants or strings elsewhere, but it's possibly close enough.
Thanks for the info. It is unfortunate that you have this predisposition towards the day length. I find the game much more enjoyable for myself with JGR's version of the patch. Not sure what you mean "they will never work" because they do. They just require a few additional multipliers to keep the game somewhat balanced. Which is not a problem IMO, because the game is unbalanced AF even before the patch. Every player has to balance it for himself anyway if he even cares about such things (many people just want to build a model railroad w/o any restrictions, as I understand).

Just a simple third multiplier in the GRF parameters will do the trick I think. I think it might be beneficial for many since your industry set is very popular, so as JGRPP.

I'll try to play some more with default values and if it's too low then try to follow your suggestion.

Edit: I didn't find "produce" blocks in the files you mentioned. But I did find this: https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/bl ... uild.pynml
If I increase these values, will it work? Having a configurable multiplier would be better though, but I have no idea how to do it yet.

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Re: FIRS Industry Set - 3.0.12 released 18th February 2019

Post by vtk »

I love FIRS, first of all. But it would be cool if there were an economy that felt a little "closer to home" for me. By "home" I mean Ohio, which includes parts of the Rust Belt, the Midwest, and Appalachia. I guess what I'm looking for is Temperate Basic ∪ Steeltown ∪ Power Plants. Would it be much work to make this happen?
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Re: FIRS Industry Set - 3.0.12 released 18th February 2019

Post by andythenorth »

vtk wrote:
06 Apr 2020 22:40
By "home" I mean Ohio, which includes parts of the Rust Belt, the Midwest, and Appalachia. I guess what I'm looking for is Temperate Basic ∪ Steeltown ∪ Power Plants. Would it be much work to make this happen?
It takes me 1-2 years to make a new FIRS economy, (mostly rounds of play-testing and tweaks) so it's not something I'd be able to do. :)

FIRS is quite easy to reconfigure yourself. There are at least 3 forks of it that I'm aware of. :D

Reconfiguring it just involves turning cargos and industries on or off in code, then recompile, and test you didn't break chains.

Reconfiguring using existing cargos and industries probably takes an hour or so. You do have to set up newgrf tools first though :twisted:

Code is here https://github.com/andythenorth/firs
There's minimalist instructions for compiling here: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/rel ... rence.html

I'm assuming by your font set that you're working on a Mac? I compile it on a Mac.

The only caveat is that major changes are in progress for v4. The v4 stuff isn't finished so I wouldn't fork from it. But the v3 stuff is designed for the old industry 3-accepted, 2-produced cargos system, where v4 is designed for the newer 16-accepted, 16-produced system. Just a heads up.

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Re: FIRS Industry Set - 3.0.12 released 18th February 2019

Post by vtk »

andythenorth wrote:
07 Apr 2020 06:49
I'm assuming by your font set that you're working on a Mac? I compile it on a Mac.
I'm not, actually. I just think that font looks cool in retro-computing contexts.
andythenorth wrote:
07 Apr 2020 06:49
The only caveat is that major changes are in progress for v4. The v4 stuff isn't finished so I wouldn't fork from it. But the v3 stuff is designed for the old industry 3-accepted, 2-produced cargos system, where v4 is designed for the newer 16-accepted, 16-produced system. Just a heads up.
I'll wait patiently for v4 then. :-)
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Re: FIRS Industry Set - 3.0.12 released 18th February 2019

Post by Kaoso »

There are some kind of bug in my FIRS Tropic Basic game, no fish cargo in ships neither any display on shoals, and the industry chain is broken. I use Renewed City Growth gamescript, set to FIRS: Tropic Basic.
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Re: FIRS Industry Set - 3.0.12 released 18th February 2019

Post by Kaoso »

andythenorth wrote:
09 Apr 2020 06:06
Kaoso wrote:
09 Apr 2020 03:46
There are some kind of bug in my FIRS Tropic Basic...
Looks like Fishing Harbour is missing. :shock: What FIRS version?
It's the lastest version of FIRS, and there is the fishing harbour, but only exports food, without any income.
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Re: FIRS Industry Set - 3.0.12 released 18th February 2019

Post by andythenorth »

The fish cargo is missing. Possible explanations:

* another grf has removed or broken the fish cargo?
* patched version of OpenTTD? FIRS doesn't support anything except vanilla OpenTTD

GL :)

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Re: FIRS Industry Set - 3.0.12 released 18th February 2019

Post by Shylon »

Hi.

First of all, thank you for doing this amazing mod, I don't think I can play without it. :bow:

I downloaded the source code because I wanted to try something like industries demanding passengers. I took a look at those .py files and I know (or I think so) how to do it. The problem is that I have no idea how to convert it to .grf so I can test it.

I''ve read several tutorials talking about different programs and I still don't know what to do. ?(

I just made some small changes to a couple of .py files (like dairy.py). There must be some easy way to do it, so I'd appreciate if anyone could tell me how.

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Re: FIRS Industry Set - 3.0.12 released 18th February 2019

Post by 2TallTyler »

Shylon wrote:
21 Apr 2020 17:42
I downloaded the source code because I wanted to try something like industries demanding passengers. I took a look at those .py files and I know (or I think so) how to do it. The problem is that I have no idea how to convert it to .grf so I can test it.
I'm pretty new to NewGRF coding so I'll let andythenorth answer in more detail (and correct me where I'm wrong), but FIRS is a very complex industry set which uses Python in addition to the actual NML which is encoded into the NewGRF.

I'd suggest looking at something coded directly in NML. I just released a single-industry set which is about as simple as you can get. Feel free to download the source from the thread and muck around with it.

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Re: FIRS Industry Set - 3.0.12 released 18th February 2019

Post by Shylon »

The code in your .nml file seems very similar to the .py files from FIRS. I think I know how to read and modify most of it.

My problems start when I have to compile it to .grf so I can test if it works.

I downloaded and installed Python 2.7.18.

Then I downloaded and installed PIL 1.1.7. I think all the content went inside the "Phyton27" folder during the installation.

Then I downloaded PLY 3.11. I ran setup.py but I didn't notice anything. I saw a tutorial saying that I have to put the "ply" folder inside the "Phyton27" folder.

Then I downloaded NML latest version (g9fdd4bbc). Again, running setup.py didn't seem to do any installation. I read some tutorial, but I got lost. Apparently, I have to type "python setup.py install" somewhere. And also "nmlc --version" to verify it.

I have a lot of experience modding games. I'm good at reading/modifying/creating code with Notepad++. I've done it in a lot of games, but I guess that I'm a complete noob when it comes to compile, sorry. :oops:

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Re: FIRS Industry Set - 3.0.12 released 18th February 2019

Post by Shylon »

Ok, I did it, I was able to encode a modified version of your .nml into a .grf. :D

I don't know if my installation of Python, PIL and PLY was correct, but the NML was wrong.
In case someone is interested, I was downloading "nml-2020-04-20-g9fdd4bbc.tar.gz" from http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/nml/nightlies/LATEST/ , but I needed to go to the "Parent directory" and download "nml--windows-win32.zip".

After extracting the folder inside the .zip, I renamed it "nml" and placed it in C:\ (to make things easier), and added your "plaza_ind.nml" file and "lang" folder inside the "nml" folder.

Then I just had to follow this instructions: https://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutoria ... sing_NML_3
So my commands were:

Code: Select all

cd C:\nml
nmlc -c --grf plaza_ind.grf plaza_ind.nml
And voilà, a "plaza_ind.grf" was created inside the "nml" folder.

Now I have to learn how to do something like this with FIRS, because I wasn't trying to create new industries like yours (great work, btw), I just wanted to see if I could make FIRS industries like Brewery, Dairy, Textile Mill... demanding passengers.

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Re: FIRS Industry Set - 3.0.12 released 18th February 2019

Post by Monty_Montana »

Hi everyone!

I have been playing FIRS from a long time and i have seen there are some kind of output limit for second industries.
Is this intentioned? Or just a game limitation? In that case, what is the real limit?

Thanks in advance.
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Montana

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Re: FIRS Industry Set - 3.0.12 released 18th February 2019

Post by Diesel Power »

There is a limit, but it's somthing ridiculous like 2000+t per tile. It's an old Openttd coded limit I believe

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Re: FIRS Industry Set - 3.0.12 released 18th February 2019

Post by speeder »

Is it possible somehow mix "economies" ?

I am making a map in Brazil, I wanted to use the "extreme" economy because it is the most fun one, but I also wanted to support industries that are wildly common in my RL reference area (for example most of the map is in an area nicknamed "land of the coffee")

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Re: FIRS Industry Set - 3.0.12 released 18th February 2019

Post by Aphid »

I'm working on updating my CB script to support FIRS-3, all 6 economies, and have a few questions that I've tried to find in the source code and on the wiki, and would like to confirm the answers.
I would like to figure out what the approximate ratio of final, town-consumed cargoes is in a fully interconnected system for each of the economies. Thus I would like to find out if these findings are correct:

1. The production ratio of an optimally fuelled secondary industry (all 3 cargoes are input) is equal to the total of the production ratios of the individual products.

Example: If an aluminium mill would use scrap 8:3, coal 8:2, and bauxite 8:4 (respectively, input:output), then an aluminium mill that receives all three would have an 8:(3+2+4) = 8:9 input:output ratio.

2. The ratio of industry types spawned on a default map is indicated by the variable prob_random in /src/industry/<NAME>.py

3. The total production output of an industry is about 9 (prod ticks per month) times the variable prod_multiplier. Correct? If so, prod_multiplier is an array of 2 values, one for each output. (For the base, non-gung-ho production of primary industries).

4. There's a random factor; with certain probability, the value determined from [3] is multiplied by one of: 0.5, 0.75, ..., 2.25. It is then rounded to an integer value. The probabilities of each are 1,1,4,3,2,1,1,1 (out of 14). This results in the following average production values per industry:

Code: Select all

BASE	AVG
2	21 2/9
3	31 1/2
4	46 2/7
5	55 2/7
6	67 1/2
7	77 7/9
8	92 4/7
9	101 4/7
10	113 7/9
11	124 1/9
12	138 6/7
13	147 6/7
14	160 1/9
15	170 3/8
16	185 1/7
17	194 1/7
18	206 3/8
19	216 5/8
20	231 3/7
21	240 3/7
22	252 5/8
23	262 8/9
24	277 5/7
25	286 5/7
26	298 8/9
27	309 2/9
28	324    
29	333    
30	345 2/9

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Re: FIRS Industry Set - 3.0.12 released 18th February 2019

Post by Aphid »

FIRS suggestions;

Economies:

When using a town-building script, ideally, one can harness the production of the whole map into a town, and ideally it's configured such
that the relative amount of resources wanted by the town's end consumers matches this production.
I have tried to see if all the production of the map can be delivered to end-consumers, and there is no spare production left.
I've used the probabilities in the code (as per the post above) to determine this via a complicated spreadsheet. Assuming the reasoning there is correct, I arrive at the following:

Conclusion: The 'FIRS' or 'EXTREME' economy is the most complete WRT town-building, as it allows for full consumption. It is the only such economy within FIRS. (Note: The economies in the default game also allow for this).

The other economies, if you work out the production of a map, have some resources that don't make it to towns or are spare.
Perhaps changing them only slightly can fix this; even just with existing industries/graphics, to 'close the loop'.
The production figures are for a total of 1,400 theoretically optimized industries on the map, monthly.

Temperate basic:

Production total: 573K
Spare resources:
Clay: 36K
Engineering supply: 6K
Farm supply: 50K

Suggestion:
Add 'DIY shop' building that takes in the excess Farm Supplies and Engineering Supplies.
Allow glass works to consume excess clay. (Or add Brick works that turns Clay into Goods).
Add 'Power Plant' from default temperate map. (Not needed, but just strange that it gets removed upon using FIRS from temperate but not arctic).

Arctic Basic:

Production total: 329K
Spare resources:
Engineering supply: 20K
Farm Supply: 14K
Paper: 17K
Explosives: 18K
Zinc: 25K
Fertilizer: 18K

Suggest: Add DIY shop as above.
Add "Printing Works" from the base game. Consumes paper to produce Goods.
Not sure what to do with the spare fertilizer, explosives, and zinc. Changing fertilizer to chemicals and add munitions factory, consuming these?

Tropic Basic:

Production total: 671K

Spare resources:
Copper: 228K
Coffee: 37K
Engi Supplies: 15K
Farm Supplies: 17K
Food: 232K
Wool: 63K

This one has the most spare resources yet. Suggest:
Add "Mint" (use bank graphics) that consumes spare Copper.
Add "Cafe" that consumes Coffee and Alcohol.
Add DIY shop as above.
Add Clothing Store that consumes Wool.

Steeltown:

Production total: 757K

Spare resources:
Cement: 83K
Engi Supplies: 82K
Farm Supplies: 74K
Pipe: 139K
Chlorine: 25K
Electrical: <1K.

Suggest:
Add DIY shop as above.
Add 'Building Materials' cargo. Perhaps give up on one of the two chemicals (acid&chlorine -> acid) to make room.
Glass Works produces Building Materials as well as vehicle things.
Add 'Concrete fabrication plant' -> Consumes Cement, Pipe to produce Building Materials.
Add 'petrol station' from extreme version. (Not all building sets accept Petrol, and it seems really weird to have the Detroit themed town not need any petrol, even though there is an unlimited consumer for it).

Hot Country:

Production total: 1196K

Spare resources:
Oil: 148K
Manganese: 84K
Rubber: 80K
Edible Oil: 57K
Engi Supplies: 51K
Copper: 50K
Farm Supplies: 47K
Coffee: 46K
Phosphate: 41K
Diamonds: 17K

Hot country has a large amount of spare resources. The export buildings only need a small amount to produce the maximum stuff, so we're left with a huge supply of oil and other resources that can't be converted locally (only dumped into ports for no production).
Suggest:
Add DIY shop as above.
Add 'Oil Refinery' (from EXTREME or the regular game). Optionally allow edible oil consumption. OR:
Add 'Oil Power Plant' consuming oil.
Add 'Grocery Store' that wants Food, Edible Oil, Fruit.
Add 'Cafe' that wants Coffee, Alcohol
Add 'Bank' (using default tropic bank graphics and mechanics) that takes Diamonds, Copper.
Add 'Factory' that takes Phosphate, Manganese, Rubber and produces Goods.

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