Iron Horse! 2.15.0 Released 30th November 2020

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SomeIndianGuy
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.11.1 Released 7th November 2020

Post by SomeIndianGuy »

Well the experimental parameter looks good with the company colours looks nice. I would like the other two colours to be set random other than 1st cc and 2nd cc ( the player would have no control on the random colours that will appear) much like GRVTS parameters.
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.11.1 Released 7th November 2020

Post by Gadg8eer »

andythenorth wrote: 09 Nov 2020 13:55 ...
Would it be possible to have the Streamer be auto-replaced by the Quicksilver if the Iron Horse 2 addon is loaded? Its GRF ID is...

Code: Select all

G8R\04
...if you need to know, and I can provide the latest source code if you need it! Also, I am open to making the Quicksilver available at a much later date so that the Streamer isn't being replaced after 2 years.
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.11.1 Released 7th November 2020

Post by Emperor Jake »

Gadg8eer wrote: 13 Nov 2020 01:05
Would it be possible to have the Streamer be auto-replaced by the Quicksilver if the Iron Horse 2 addon is loaded? Its GRF ID is...
Yes, all you have to do is find out the IH Streamer's vehicle ID, and use an engine_override with IH's GRF ID to replace it. IH doesn't even need to be modified. I used this method in my Japanese Secret Engines grf to replace JapanSet vehicles.

andythenorth wrote: 09 Nov 2020 13:55
I'm going to test having just 1 parameter, with options like:
  • Random 1CC / 2CC
  • Random variations of CC1 (so use all 3 blues, or all 3 greens, or red/pink/brown etc)
  • Pseudo-realistic, changing by date, so e.g brown / grey / dark brown for early years, then more company colours later, or specific 'realistic' colours for some wagon types
  • No random
I think setting 4 colours is probably overkill.
I like the option of having colour variation for freight cars, in fact I've been hoping for such a feature because while the group liveries are nice, I like to have my freight wagons be more realistic greys and browns rather than match the bright colours of the engines. That said, I agree setting the 4 colours individually is overkill because I'd always end up setting them to greys and browns anyway, so a "realistic" parameter would be much appreciated :)
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.11.1 Released 7th November 2020

Post by andythenorth »

I've consolidated to 1 parameter. This isn't finished, but it's worth a test?

* no 'automatic' setting yet
* flip behaviour might need adjusted
* buy menu support missing

Might need to restart OpenTTD to get the parameters to show.


iron-horse-2.11.1-18-g16024629.tar
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wagon_randomisation_strategies.png
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Last edited by andythenorth on 15 Nov 2020 08:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.11.1 Released 7th November 2020

Post by Gadg8eer »

Emperor Jake wrote: 14 Nov 2020 05:58
Gadg8eer wrote: 13 Nov 2020 01:05
Would it be possible to have the Streamer be auto-replaced by the Quicksilver if the Iron Horse 2 addon is loaded? Its GRF ID is...
Yes, all you have to do is find out the IH Streamer's vehicle ID, and use an engine_override with IH's GRF ID to replace it. IH doesn't even need to be modified. I used this method in my Japanese Secret Engines grf to replace JapanSet vehicles.
Sure, thanks for explaining what I need to do! I'll have it done soon!
Last edited by Gadg8eer on 15 Nov 2020 17:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.11.1 Released 7th November 2020

Post by Gadg8eer »

andythenorth wrote: 15 Nov 2020 09:00 Another wagon colour randomisation test:

* buy menu now fixed
* tweaks to 'contrast with cc' rules
Question: What's the NML equivalent of this part of your code?

Code: Select all

replacement_consist_id='dragon'
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.11.1 Released 7th November 2020

Post by andythenorth »

Gadg8eer wrote: 15 Nov 2020 17:54Question: What's the NML equivalent of this part of your code?

Code: Select all

replacement_consist_id='dragon'
There isn't I guess, it's not an nml feature.

It's used to calculate vehicle retirement date, which is a combination of model_life and retire_early properties.

Engine life cycle is a bit fiddly to understand, docs are here: https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/N ... life_cycle
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.11.1 Released 7th November 2020

Post by arikover »

andythenorth wrote: 14 Nov 2020 22:07 I've consolidated to 1 parameter. This isn't finished, but it's worth a test?

* no 'automatic' setting yet
* flip behaviour might need adjusted
* buy menu support missing

Might need to restart OpenTTD to get the parameters to show.
Really nice!

This might not be pretty, but what about a "50 shades of rainbow" setting (all colors are possible)?
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.11.1 Released 7th November 2020

Post by andythenorth »

arikover wrote: 16 Nov 2020 23:38 This might not be pretty, but what about a "50 shades of rainbow" setting (all colors are possible)?
I did try a random 'rainbow colours' test already, but I removed it :twisted:
rainbow_horses_again.png
(183.87 KiB) Not downloaded yet

So for 'automatic' slightly-realistic wagon colours:
* 1860s-1930: mostly grey?
* 1930s-1990s: grey / brown mixed?
* 1990s > end: company colour? Or red / pink?

I can do all kinds of stupid stuff like detecting if the engine has a railfreight livery etc, but I need to set the basic rules before doing any of that... :D

The grey / brown colours are good for realism, but they're kind of dour?
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.11.1 Released 7th November 2020

Post by Emperor Jake »

andythenorth wrote: 17 Nov 2020 09:09 So for 'automatic' slightly-realistic wagon colours:
* 1860s-1930: mostly grey?
* 1930s-1990s: grey / brown mixed?
* 1990s > end: company colour? Or red / pink?

I can do all kinds of stupid stuff like detecting if the engine has a railfreight livery etc, but I need to set the basic rules before doing any of that... :D

The grey / brown colours are good for realism, but they're kind of dour?

The realistic option doesn't need to be all brown and grey. How about having small chances of other colours appearing, but in early years they're duller colours like cream and dark green, and in modern years some brigter primary colours could be mixed in. But to maintain realism the majority of wagons should remain grey (or grey could be the primary CC while other colours take the 2CC) and the colours could change depending on what looks good on the wagon type (e.g. bulk/tanker wagons should all be mostly the same colour while containers/box vans can have a lot more variety)

Maybe the engine's company colour could be factored into the colour selection as well to prevent them from becoming too rainbow-y, e.g. if you have a red engine you don't get green or orange wagons.

Would it be possible to change colours depending on what cargo is being carried? Or would you not do that because it would result in chameleon-trains when using autorefit?
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.11.1 Released 7th November 2020

Post by andythenorth »

Thanks Jake :)

I've got a design for what I hope is a better version, might be a new test today or tomorrow.
Emperor Jake wrote: 21 Nov 2020 12:30 Would it be possible to change colours depending on what cargo is being carried? Or would you not do that because it would result in chameleon-trains when using autorefit?
Nah, it's on the list, I think it would be good for specific limited cases.
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.11.1 Released 7th November 2020

Post by andythenorth »

Test version attached. Probably you'll need to restart OpenTTD to get the parameters to show up correctly.

Wagon base colour 1 and 2 parameters
- default to company colour setting (cc1 or cc2 as appropriate)
- use a specific colour

These are primarily designed for using with group colour schemes. I like group colour schemes and use them a lot, but they don't allow setting wagon colours separate from engine. These parameters are a (clunky) solution to that.

Wagon colour randomisation parameter
- Shades of both base colours (default)
- Shades of one base colour
- No randomisation

There's 2 base colours (using standard company colours), and then an additional variant of each (either darker or lighter).

This gives the option for wagons to randomise between 4 different colours when built, or 2, or just 1 (for the tidy mind). :twisted:

Depot flip (ctrl-click) will always toggle to second base colour. Probably not going to add an option to change that, the combinatorial explosion is already a bit mad.

Might do engine-specific or cargo-specific magic later. Or might not :twisted: .
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.11.1 Released 7th November 2020

Post by Ragin1_ »

Ik this is a bit of a detour with what you've been working on, but if I could request one thing for iron horse is that could we get an option above "excessive" in the train capacity options? Whenever I play with iron horse my routes normally become over capacity super quick and it gets to the point where it just becomes unviable or unrealistic to keep adding longer and more frequent trains to my routes.

If I were to make a recommendation for what to do, For the most part I'd have the new option basically be a doubling of the standard "marvelous" option. If you could do this I'd be seriously appreciative.
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.11.1 Released 7th November 2020

Post by andythenorth »

Ragin1_ wrote: 22 Nov 2020 02:44 Ik this is a bit of a detour with what you've been working on, but if I could request one thing for iron horse is that could we get an option above "excessive" in the train capacity options?
Generally I don't like too many options, but this one makes sense.

Test attached. I've done it as 'Outrageous', and it's 1.77 x 'Marvellous'.

Rationale - 'Excessive' is 1.33 x, so I've multiplied by 1.33 again to come out at 1.77. It's pretty high now IMHO :twisted:
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.11.1 Released 7th November 2020

Post by Ragin1_ »

That's pretty much what I need, thanks!
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.11.1 Released 7th November 2020

Post by andythenorth »

Iron Horse 2.12.0 now on Bananas. Docs on grf.farm: https://grf.farm/iron-horse/2.12.0/html ... arted.html

Needed a savegame bump (sorry, unavoidable) :twisted:

2.12.0 Release

Changes
  • reworked parameters for freight wagon colours and randomisation
    • added 2 'wagon base colour' parameters - optionally set freight wagons to use fixed colours instead of company colours, even in groups with colour schemes
    • added 'wagon colour randomisation' parameter, offering 3 options for randomising the colours of freight wagons
    • these apply to most freight wagons, with some exceptions, for example, brake vans, mail vans and passenger coaches
  • added a new 'Outrageous' option to 'train capacity' parameter, providing 77% increase of default vehicle capacity
  • added descriptions and '(default)' labels to parameters where needed
  • renamed Coil Carrier to Covered Coil Carrier
  • added a new uncovered Coil Carrier type with visible cargo
  • improved sprites for
    • Covered Coil Carriers
    • Tarpaulin Wagons
Codechanges
  • fixed rendering of vehicles cargo pipeline when MP pool isn't used
  • refactored some switches so nml can automatically optimise them to constants when appropriate (glx)
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.11.1 Released 7th November 2020

Post by LaChupacabra »

andythenorth wrote: 22 Nov 2020 08:04 Generally I don't like too many options (...)
And yet, just to paint the wagons, you add as many as three. :D
For me, the solution you used is not convincing. I like when an add-on has options that allow it to be tweaked to suit playstyle and preferences, but here it feels a bit too much. I think a player has too much to choose from, there is just too much democracy in this version. ;) Although it's actually communism, because all companies, without a choice, will use the same painting... :mrgreen:

A nice solution, although not perfect, was used in the V4 set, where you can choose to paint trains in colors typical for one of 4/7 countries or use the company's default colors. These additional schemes use a different color than the currently available 16 colors, which also adds a bit of freshness. Here, the colors of the carriages are combined with the colors of the locomotives, but that is probably not necessary. The disadvantage of such a solution are extensive refitable options and the fact that for each new train you have to choose a color (it can also be an advantage).
Wagon coloures options - V4 Trains Set.png
(86.99 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Another interesting solution was used in the Polroad vehicle set, where the vehicle colors are related to the company colors, but they are not the same colors from the 2CC palette. It looks a bit as if the set was used in conjunction with the alternative version of the New CC Set - although there is miss some color combinations for me, general effect is quite not bad.

I don't know what the game's development possibilities are, maybe it's just a walk in the clouds, but maybe the last variant of choosing the colors of the wagons could be a problem if the list of available colors will be extended from the current 16 to e.g. 36, which is possible thanks to at least the available color palette.

I think the earlier version (2.11.1-18) was better. It would be good if the colors (or the details) of the carriages could be chosen by each player. However, in the set settings there could be some simple option to determine the level of color randomization: 2CC, company shades, "realistic", "piecemeal", "rainbow" - each setting could take into account the player's color setting.
andythenorth wrote: 22 Nov 2020 08:04 Test attached. I've done it as 'Outrageous', and it's 1.77 x 'Marvellous'.
Rationale - 'Excessive' is 1.33 x, so I've multiplied by 1.33 again to come out at 1.77. It's pretty high now IMHO :twisted:
I like this option :twisted:
But...
Regardless of this, I still consider that the option to reduce the base production of the FIRS industry would be very useful. The problem of limited network bandwidth doesn't only concern the Iron Horse, but almost all railroad add-ons. As a result, it makes no sense to connect routes and thus build any intersections, because no matter how sophisticated they are, it will be congested very quickly. Lately, even playing with x4 slowing down, I had to separate connections from each other and build separate tracks for existing lines. When you build a bigger network, big productions aren't fun.

Iron Horse - marvelous option.PNG
Iron Horse - marvelous option.PNG (2.11 KiB) Viewed 181 times
I wanted to ask for this option... Thanks You Andy :)
Previous versions of the Iron Horse was one of my favorite train additions. I liked the simplicity of the choice. This set was perfect for a chilled out game. I am glad that you added this option. :) Although it could narrow down the selection even more (including reductions in wagon types)
Question: What is the roster option for? And the settings of Llame, Antelope? :)) If it's not used, maybe with it you could give the choose of set size?

So stayed then two another request. :idea:
Could you please make the wagons have a slightly more narrow specialization?
Currently, almost all wagons can carry anything. Many wagons don't differ in any way, except in appearance. The biggest problem here, however, is the refitable option. In other sets, you can combine different types of wagons so that only part of the train is refit. In your set, each time the reconstruction affects all wagons, which makes it impossible to refit a train with more than one type of cargo. As a result, wagons that can carry anything are for nothing.

Descriptions of the specific characteristics of the wagons would also be very useful, i.e. information about loading speed or better transport properties (cargo aging) - such is in the V4 and Polroad. It is true that the form of information for cargo aging is not the best in my opinion, but thanks to this information the additives are much more user-friendly - you don't have to test everything to check the properties.
Ps. Could the wagons have a slow cargo aging during loading?
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Re: Iron Horse! 2.11.1 Released 7th November 2020

Post by andythenorth »

LaChupacabra wrote: 22 Nov 2020 18:11 Although it's actually communism, because all companies, without a choice, will use the same painting... :mrgreen:
The wagon colour parameters might be weird in multiplayer, because the server owner might set the colours...so yes that would be the same for all companies. :shock:

I don't have any good solution for that. :twisted:

In my games, I leave the base colour parameters on 'Use company colour settings'. They're really for players who just want to use 'realistic' colours like brown and grey for all wagons, even where vehicle groups set another colour :wink:
LaChupacabra wrote: 22 Nov 2020 18:11 Although it could narrow down the selection even more (including reductions in wagon types)[/size]
There are about 20 types of wagons in the reduced set. I've just tested and noticed 1 or 2 more that shouldn't be there (the coil carriers). I'd happily remove 1 or 2 more if that helps, but I don't know which ones need removed. The sliding door box car maybe? The ore hopper? The scrap wagon? And the fruit van?
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