[GS] Renewed Village Growth 9.3 (RVG)

Discuss the new AI features ("NoAI") introduced into OpenTTD 0.7, allowing you to implement custom AIs, and the new Game Scripts available in OpenTTD 1.2 and higher.

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How would you rate this game script?

5★ Lev4 'Chimaera'
26
90%
4★ "AsiaStar"
2
7%
3★ Floss "47"
1
3%
2★ Ploddyphut Choo-Choo
0
No votes
1★ Kirby Paul Tank
0
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Total votes: 29

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Firrel
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Post by Firrel »

KeepinItRail wrote: 28 Jun 2021 13:30 Hey

I started a new game, this time with FIRS 4 In A Hot Country and the Story Book looks a bit off with regards to the categories. Normally they have names and Cat 2 has no cargo types.

Same thing isn't happening with Steeltown
Hey KeepinItRail,

Tried the world generation with RVG 6.2, FIRS 4 IaHC and different randomizations and all works well.

What you can see are procedurally generated categories, because the automatic selection failed. This was implemented to support also other than fully supported industry sets, but is far from being perfect. The main issue is what caused the automatic selection to fail. The automatic selection compares cargo list labels in game with all supported economies cargo lists labels. This can however fail in case the cargo list is changed due to some other newGRF. An example is CZTR set, which defines cargo label LVPT at 31 index. This can substitute other cargo label, leading to incorrect cargo list. In RVG, the CZTR cargo type is filtered out, so it will not fail in most cases. But maybe some other newGRF is causing it.

Could you please provide the newGRF list you are using? Either a screenshot or a newGRF list, that you can get from openttd.cfg under[newgrf].
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Post by KeepinItRail »

Hey, thanks for getting back. The category names automatic selection appears to be failing, even if FIRS4IaHC is the only newGRF.

I've attached;
  • In a Hot Country as the only newGRF
  • In a Hot Country with my newGRFs
  • An older In a Hot Country save (4.0.1 instead of 4.1), with similar newGRFs, but it worked fine
Thinking out loud on that last one, reckon it could be due to the name change of logs, formerly called wood?

Logs is now the names of the cargo in In a Hot Country and Arctic Basic, and of the five FIRS 4 economies, I only get the category selection failing in these two economies, in the other economies which don't have logs/wood, the category names look fine.

Link to the logs cargo: https://grf.farm/firs/4.1.0/html/cargos.html#logs
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Post by Firrel »

KeepinItRail wrote: 29 Jun 2021 14:57 Thinking out loud on that last one, reckon it could be due to the name change of logs, formerly called wood?

Logs is now the names of the cargo in In a Hot Country and Arctic Basic, and of the five FIRS 4 economies, I only get the category selection failing in these two economies, in the other economies which don't have logs/wood, the category names look fine.
Ah yes, thank you for the catch, this is it. I was still using the older version of FIRS 4. So it is time for version 7 as this breaks compatibility between versions, will try to get it done soon.
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 7.0 (RVG)

Post by Firrel »

New update for Renewed Village Growth 7.0 is available in BaNaNaS
* Not compatible with previous versions
- modified: Updated FIRS to 4.3.0
- modified: Show available cargo in town info instead of supplied (combination of supplied and stockpiled of how much was available before the town took its goal amount)
- modified: New growth rate calculation with slower growth and bigger impact of missing cargo goals, more info here
- modified: Equalization of impact of each cargo category on missing percentage (with 2 categories, one fully fulfilled and second zero, the goals fulfillment is 50%)
- removed: Yeti workers and tired yeti workers as limiter cargos
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 7.0 (RVG)

Post by LoSboccacc »

Image

I'm using firs 4 and rvg 7 and asymmetric cargodist

stations don't show up fish as accepted goods, and fish brought there manually don't seem to be picked up by the city

I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, but I don't know what I'm missing
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 7.0 (RVG)

Post by KeepinItRail »

LoSboccacc wrote: 16 Aug 2021 09:49 I'm using firs 4 and rvg 7 and asymmetric cargodist
Hey LoSboccacc. FIRS 4 and RVG - a person of culture I see. :D
LoSboccacc wrote: 16 Aug 2021 09:49 stations don't show up fish as accepted goods, and fish brought there manually don't seem to be picked up by the city

I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, but I don't know what I'm missing
I assume you delivering the Fish to Mawood and transferring the cargo. As it sounds like you are suspecting, since Fish isn’t an accepted cargo at Mawood, it’s not counting as Raw Food delivered. There would have to be an industry, e.g Fishing Harbour, in the range of station for it to count.

I usually play with a NewGRF called Base Costs Mod and make it cheaper to fund and build industries near towns to get around this problem to keep towns growing.
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 7.0 (RVG)

Post by LoSboccacc »

KeepinItRail wrote: 16 Aug 2021 10:21
LoSboccacc wrote: 16 Aug 2021 09:49 I'm using firs 4 and rvg 7 and asymmetric cargodist
Hey LoSboccacc. FIRS 4 and RVG - a person of culture I see. :D
LoSboccacc wrote: 16 Aug 2021 09:49 stations don't show up fish as accepted goods, and fish brought there manually don't seem to be picked up by the city

I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, but I don't know what I'm missing
I assume you delivering the Fish to Mawood and transferring the cargo. As it sounds like you are suspecting, since Fish isn’t an accepted cargo at Mawood, it’s not counting as Raw Food delivered. There would have to be an industry, e.g Fishing Harbour, in the range of station for it to count.

I usually play with a NewGRF called Base Costs Mod and make it cheaper to fund and build industries near towns to get around this problem to keep towns growing.

ah, bummer, you'd end up with industries everywhere instead of stressing logistics. I'll search a grf that adds a store to every city then


edit: found one that add a general store with high likelyhood, so back to the mod:

is there a way to use baseset rules with the firs chain? (i.e. only passenger&mail, food and goods each in their 3 tiers)
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 7.0 (RVG)

Post by KeepinItRail »

LoSboccacc wrote: 16 Aug 2021 10:28 ah, bummer, you'd end up with industries everywhere instead of stressing logistics. I'll search a grf that adds a store to every city then
This is essentially the concept of a NewGRF I’m trying to make at the moment. :D

Rather than a store, it adds ‘food markets’ which accepts fish, milk, nuts etc to sell in what is like a farmers market. Although it’s still technically an industry, just like Plaza as Industry, it’s much easier to manage a 1 tile industry, and you don’t have to end up with ‘proper’ industries everywhere, including small towns. It just accepts RVG raw foods cargoes to keep the script happy so small town get a bit more growth if I hook them up.

This is my first NewGRF and I haven’t really tested it much or worked out how to get it on the online content downloader yet. Would you be interested in getting the testing version to see if that does the trick and let me know what you think?
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 7.0 (RVG)

Post by LoSboccacc »

Absolutely! Does it also put one on each town on its own or do I have to manually build them?
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 7.0 (RVG)

Post by KeepinItRail »

LoSboccacc wrote: 16 Aug 2021 11:52 Absolutely! Does it also put one on each town on its own or do I have to manually build them?
You have go to 'Fund new industry', then you will see 'Market' and then place it where you like. It has to be on a flat tile.

I'll DM/PM you it so you can give it a try.
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 7.0 (RVG)

Post by LoSboccacc »

cannot figure out why wood isn't triggering the raw materials:

Image

I've built the paper mill, I've also tried valuables to the bank near the stop, to the same results.

this is using the NAIS. a town downstream has the valuable properly triggering the category and it's growing, it's only this one that's giving me troubles
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 7.0 (RVG)

Post by Firrel »

LoSboccacc wrote: 22 Aug 2021 15:56 cannot figure out why wood isn't triggering the raw materials:
The supplies are calculated once per month, so it is displayed one month later. Also if you dont have regular deliveries, some months can have zero delivered, because the goal was not achieved. Could it be something like this?

If you have randomization enabled, every town accepts random set of the category cargoes. So the town might not be requiring the wood cargo but coal. You can check the randomization in the GS settings or in the text of story book there is written like towns accept any cargo or they accept random 2-3 cargo types. Also if you have town box displaying set to automatic, it would scroll between cargo types and deliveries.
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 7.0 (RVG)

Post by LoSboccacc »

it was randomization! thanks!
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 7.0 (RVG)

Post by mytreds »

Great script. The town growth stops for me after 8000 pop though. Everything is supplied and it just shows no growth.
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 7.0 (RVG)

Post by Firrel »

mytreds wrote: 23 Aug 2021 02:32 Great script. The town growth stops for me after 8000 pop though. Everything is supplied and it just shows no growth.
Could you please provide some screenshots or a save file?

Are you transporting enough passangers and mails generated by the town? If you have red text in the town box like insufficient passangers, that will stop the growth.
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 7.0 (RVG)

Post by MLG »

Firrel wrote: 23 Aug 2021 08:31 Could you please provide some screenshots or a save file?
He posted something here: viewtopic.php?f=65&t=89261
The screenshot is blurry however...
Are you an eye candy player? Check out Invisible engine set! viewtopic.php?f=67&t=88934
You can write to me in English, or Czech. Můžete mi psát česky nebo anglicky.
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 7.1 (RVG)

Post by Firrel »

New update for Renewed Village Growth 7.1 is available in BaNaNaS
- new: OTIS 02 predefined cargo categories (audunmaroey)
- new: IOTC 0.1.4 predefined cargo categories
- fix: crash when game debugging was turned on
- fix: crash when last category was reached
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 7.1 (RVG)

Post by robiz »

Dear Firrel,
I've seen that you have done magics with several (even complex) GS Industries.
I'm wondering if would be possible have in the future RVG also able to interact with WRBI,
with which I'm currently playing (it's my 1st GS-Industries).

If I've correctly investigated the game, I've found some missing materials.
I attach a screenshot and the list of the chain productions,
so, may be, you can evaluate also if possible have 5 cargo types with WRBI.
WRBI vs RVG.png
WRBI vs RVG.png (28.21 KiB) Viewed 6685 times
Please let me know if I can provide more useful info if needed.
Thank you for your time and attention.

EDIT

+ WRBI local link

--
RZ
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WRBI vs RVG chains.txt
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 7.0 (RVG)

Post by abloke »

Before the below a question: I know that you need an industry accepting a certain cargo within range of a town to get it in the system. There are still a few things that are unclear to me:
  1. Does within range mean just a tile owned by the local authority (as I understand it every tile in the map is owned by some town, even ones very far away from the town, which is why making airports with the noise limit on can be a pain) or does it just mean within the zone you can see by going to Local Authority -> View Zone?
  2. If the answer to the above is 'within the View Zone radius' does this radius grow with the size of the settlement? I'm using a mod to cut starting settlement sizes for the earlier start so I can't easily see if larger settlements have a larger local authority zone (biggest settlements are 1600, maybe 2000).
  3. Does the industry have to be within the range or does it just have to be the station accepting the given cargo that's within the zone? That is if the station is close enough to, say, a stockyard that the station will accept livestock and the station is in the zone but the stockyard isn't will that still work or do both have to be within range? This would make it easier to keep industries on the outskirts.
  4. Why does population sometimes decrease even when a town shows 'growing within ~300 days' or similar? It seems to dip down then come back up a lot.

LoSboccacc wrote: 16 Aug 2021 10:28 ah, bummer, you'd end up with industries everywhere instead of stressing logistics. I'll search a grf that adds a store to every city then
I ran into the same thing so I tried using industry descending and it works a lot better. You start out with tier II being finished goods, then lighter industry then raw goods (I think of it like bringing luxury fresh food into a local production area for a major city). See the image below for some quick tests I did using FIRS 4 temperate basic and see all cargos. From what I gather this setting puts every industry into a tier (category) then, for each tier, picks an industry that the town would want and then asks for that industry's inputs but the industries in tier II are generals stores (usually one in each city in FIRS anyway), ports (often near a city) and oddly steel mills and the first two have a lot of overlap in what they accept. It may be that because I'm playing starting in 1700 and steel mills (which take in iron, coal and scrap) don't appear until 1800 that this grf gets confused by the fact iron ore, coal and scrap metal have nowhere to go so it sticks them in tier II when they should be in III but I don't know.

Sometimes tier III asks for Passengers, Alcohol and Food because it's picked a hotel industry. In general it might just be luck that ports and general stores overlap so much in temperate basic and I've not tried on arctic, tropic or with steeltown or with the other industry mods this grf supports.

Industry ascending would do the same thing as the normal progression of raw materials first.

Perhaps a better explanation on how industry descending and ascending sort things into tiers would be helpful and maybe a look at making sure the highest tier (cat II in descending, cat IV in ascending) is definitely end products also. I suspect the results for this setting with arctic basic would be less sensible and with tropic basic probably pretty good but I've yet to try either. If you want to quickly see what will happen with industry descending turn your town view to full cargo, throw a basic two station bus loop in ~10 cities and then run the game for two months and you can get a bunch like I did in the image below.


(Image may be annoyingly large for small screens, might have to open a new tab to read the text. Apologies)
Image
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 7.1 (RVG)

Post by abloke »

Here is arctic
arctic.png
(1.46 MiB) Not downloaded yet
and tropic
tropic.png
(1.17 MiB) Not downloaded yet
basic (as attachments this time). Arctic got weird as predicted, tropic seems to work because the only cat II industry is the port which overlaps with the general store so if a town has either of those (and with FIRS it usually has a store at least) it'll work. Where it gets odd for tropic is that no town ever wanted beans, fruit or grain as a cat V/raw food and hotels seem to show up in both cat III and cat IV. Also for both arctic and tropic it seems like sometimes more than one industry is picked for later category levels.

By the way here are the FIRS 4 flowcharts to compare to what I've posted. As you can see industry descending mostly progresses from right to left but with some oddities where it doesn't quite match up. Honestly I'd be happy as long as the two 'end' categories were just general store + port + hotel and raw food + materials (one being cat II the other being cat IV or V depending on if you pick ascending or descending).
https://grf.farm/firs/4.0.1/html/econom ... rate_basic
https://grf.farm/firs/4.0.1/html/econom ... ctic_basic
https://grf.farm/firs/4.0.1/html/econom ... opic_basic
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