PathZilla (v6) - A networking AI

Discuss the new AI features ("NoAI") introduced into OpenTTD 0.7, allowing you to implement custom AIs, and the new Game Scripts available in OpenTTD 1.2 and higher.

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Re: PathZilla (v3) - A road networking AI

Post by Zutty »

Zephyris wrote:It would be good if you can check the vehicle length (ie. number of articulated components) when buying the vehicle - can you do this currently? It may be a useful API feature...
We can get whether or not its articulated, but not the number of cars. This is what we have to go on...

http://noai.openttd.org/docs/classAIEngine.html

I have an algorithm which ranks engines based on an estimate of income they could generate over 5 years against their total cost of ownership over the same period. At the moment this favours fast vehicles except for very short routes where it goes for double-deckers or bendy buses. Normal buses never get built! This is because faster vehciles earn more per unit of cargo than slower ones.

This becomes problematic in the very early period with eGRVTS as it ALWAYS goes for the 6-horse carriage, because it is so much faster than everything else! However because they are very long and because the AI needs to build LOADS of them to carry enough passengers, the roads clog up. If I hack it to ignore articulated vehicles it goes for the internal combustion buses, which are very short and don't cause queues easily! It never builds steam vehicles, which is a shame 'cos I like them!! :D

I still need to tweak the system somewhat (I need to use the TCO of a whole fleet rather than of a single vehicle, to promote more capacious vehicles), but I'm thinking of scrapping this and going for a dumber approach that gives more variety.
PathZilla - A networking AI - Now with tram support.

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Re: PathZilla (v3) - A road networking AI

Post by Zuu »

If you somehow calculate the TCO so that the benefit of high-capacity/short vehicles is increased along with the number of vehicles on the line. Then the AI will in the beginning use short-sighted long low capacity vehicles but later switch to use vehicles with higher capacity.

Optionally it could on a crowded line iterate over the vehicles and replace old vehicles with to bad capacity.


I don't know if you do this already but given your nice network layout:
* You have a graph of links and nodes.
* You have lines between stations which are located in towns or next to industries.

-> For each line you can calculate a crowdedness value based on number of vehicles and the length of the line. Perhaps give articulated vehicles the weight 1.5.
-> Accumulate all the crowdedness values to the links they pass.
-> You can now detect which network-links that are mostly congested and is in need to upgrade vehicles to higher capacity.
-> The TCO calculations could use the link-crowdedness as a parameter for how much it should value high-capacity vehicles.


Problems:
If vehicles decide to take another way than the node-link network you've built up. Perhaps a competitor have built a better connection somewhere. Also every vehicle that is not owned by your AI will not be taken into account.
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Re: PathZilla (v3) - A road networking AI

Post by Zutty »

planetmaker wrote:What a sight! Probably one of the earliest traffic jams - at least in OpenTTD :D

Besides that, I like an AI which doesn't play me in single player against the wall (though it might still do that, need to test it properly) but takes care for eye candy and good looks :) Good job!
Thanks :) I am trying to go for the eye-candy thing! However that often means rejecting the financially optimal solution, which feels wierd.

I had thought, to force a bit of variety, that the AI could prefer certain vehicles based on their names. There would be a random seed created at the start and the name of each engine would be parsed to look for certain words.

For instance one AI could prefer vehicles made by a particular manufacturer (IRL transport companies will have deals with manufacturers to get better prices). Another could build ONLY steam powered vehicles, forcing itself to go out of business as its fleet withers and falls to bits!

I like the idea of a scenario where the human player goes up against various different competitors that rise and fall over the years. IRL not every company lasts forever.
PathZilla - A networking AI - Now with tram support.

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Re: PathZilla (v3) - A road networking AI

Post by AndersI »

Zutty wrote:I had thought, to force a bit of variety, that the AI could prefer certain vehicles based on their names.
Couldn't you base your preference on past performance? I.e. buy different kinds of vehicles, and re-evaluate them after X years/months/whatever. Replace the worst model(s) and never buy them again.

Maybe not a winning strategy, but might be entertaining to look at.

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Re: PathZilla (v3) - A road networking AI

Post by Misha »

But if you remember results of previous games, it could be a winning strategy.

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Re: PathZilla (v3) - A road networking AI

Post by Zutty »

AndersI wrote:
Zutty wrote:I had thought, to force a bit of variety, that the AI could prefer certain vehicles based on their names.
Couldn't you base your preference on past performance? I.e. buy different kinds of vehicles, and re-evaluate them after X years/months/whatever. Replace the worst model(s) and never buy them again.

Maybe not a winning strategy, but might be entertaining to look at.
Not a bad idea, but how do you judge the performance of one vehicle against others? Would it have to run pilot schemes? Plus would it be able to get enough reliable data before a replacement vechiles is released? I don't know about other sets, but eGRVTS moves pretty quickly!
Misha wrote:But if you remember results of previous games, it could be a winning strategy.
Hmmm... that would depend on which NewGRFs have been loaded, and it wouldn't work for ones that the AI doesn't know about.

Do you mean setting the selection metric based on trial runs and real data?



I think it might be a good idea to use some kind of machine learning approach, so that it can do stuff like you guys suggest in practise runs (which could run automagically for hundreds of generations) and then use the data that is "learned" in real games without having to figure it out as it goes along.

I need to do SOMETHING, 'cos my current approach is rubbish!! :lol:
PathZilla - A networking AI - Now with tram support.

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Re: PathZilla (v3) - A road networking AI

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Zuu wrote:If you somehow calculate the TCO so that the benefit of high-capacity/short vehicles is increased along with the number of vehicles on the line. Then the AI will in the beginning use short-sighted long low capacity vehicles but later switch to use vehicles with higher capacity.

Optionally it could on a crowded line iterate over the vehicles and replace old vehicles with to bad capacity.


I don't know if you do this already but given your nice network layout:
* You have a graph of links and nodes.
* You have lines between stations which are located in towns or next to industries.

-> For each line you can calculate a crowdedness value based on number of vehicles and the length of the line. Perhaps give articulated vehicles the weight 1.5.
-> Accumulate all the crowdedness values to the links they pass.
-> You can now detect which network-links that are mostly congested and is in need to upgrade vehicles to higher capacity.
-> The TCO calculations could use the link-crowdedness as a parameter for how much it should value high-capacity vehicles.


Problems:
If vehicles decide to take another way than the node-link network you've built up. Perhaps a competitor have built a better connection somewhere. Also every vehicle that is not owned by your AI will not be taken into account.
It will be tricky to figure out which line a vehicle is on, but I do like this idea. At the moment, the AI considers coaches to be more economically viable than doublre-deckers and bendy buses (is that just British vernacular or does everyone know that term?!). Clearly though when traffic becomes high, the coaches can no-longer press their advantage and we should prefer which ever carries the most.

It might be easier to calculate crowdedness on a per town basis, but I could still see which routes pass through that town.

Another possibility that this would give is that the AI could determine where higher capacity roads and bypasses are needed.

I'll see what I can come up with.
PathZilla - A networking AI - Now with tram support.

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Re: PathZilla (v3) - A road networking AI

Post by AndersI »

Zutty wrote:Not a bad idea, but how do you judge the performance of one vehicle against others?
Just thinking out loud here, don't know if it's possible, either code-wise or performance-wise...

Looking at only one route, assuming at least two different models are used, only looking at vehicles older than two years, you could do an average profit / model / year and decide which one is best (for this route, in the current traffic).

Doing the same thing on all vehicles might work on a uniform map, but probably not where the conditions differ too much.

Selecting models more or less randomly, buying a number of each and running them for a couple of years is probably not the best way to make a profit...

Sorry, I don't have any good ideas for the moment.

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Re: PathZilla (v3) - A road networking AI

Post by Yexo »

AndersI wrote:
Zutty wrote:Not a bad idea, but how do you judge the performance of one vehicle against others?
Just thinking out loud here, don't know if it's possible, either code-wise or performance-wise...

Looking at only one route, assuming at least two different models are used, only looking at vehicles older than two years, you could do an average profit / model / year and decide which one is best (for this route, in the current traffic).

Doing the same thing on all vehicles might work on a uniform map, but probably not where the conditions differ too much.

Selecting models more or less randomly, buying a number of each and running them for a couple of years is probably not the best way to make a profit...

Sorry, I don't have any good ideas for the moment.
That sounds nice, but doesn't work in practice: Say you have only two vehicles on one route. Sooner or later they will end up close behind eachother. The first one will make more money than the one behind, regardless of the type (unless the one behind is *much* better).

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Re: PathZilla (v3) - A road networking AI

Post by AndersI »

Yexo wrote:Say you have only two vehicles on one route. Sooner or later they will end up close behind eachother. The first one will make more money than the one behind, regardless of the type (unless the one behind is *much* better).
"Full load" or an option to wait for "X% load" takes more or less care of that (but doesn't necessarily increase profits). Note though that I was talking about *average* profit, assuming you have a number of models, and a number of each model. Trying do do statistics on a very small sample size is futile...

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Re: PathZilla (v3) - A road networking AI

Post by Zutty »

Heres a quick teaser for you...
teaser.png
teaser.png (163.38 KiB) Viewed 4201 times
Theres some way still to go until v4 is ready, but DTRSs and ARVs work now.
PathZilla - A networking AI - Now with tram support.

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Re: PathZilla (v3) - A road networking AI

Post by X_stream »

Zutty wrote:...but DTRSs and ARVs work now.
Wow! That's cool :D
Can't wait to try it out.

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Re: PathZilla (v3) - A road networking AI

Post by dbkblk »

Wonderful ! Very good work Zutty ^^

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Re: PathZilla (v3) - A road networking AI

Post by Zutty »

Thanks guys :) Here's another one for you, just so you know I'm still working on this...
tram_support3.png
tram_support3.png (212.54 KiB) Viewed 3881 times
I'm still not ready to make a release yet, but trams are now supported.

This was a big change so there are still LOTS of bugs to work out, but I'm getting there!
PathZilla - A networking AI - Now with tram support.

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Re: PathZilla (v3) - A road networking AI

Post by This is my name »

Good AI you got. Pathzilla profits earlier than AdmiralAI. That's what I like about your AI :) .

Unfortunately, they tend to make too much buses which already causes jams :cry: .

Good luck for your tram support (and your AI) :P
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Re: PathZilla (v3) - A road networking AI

Post by Zutty »

Hi everyone I'm back! I've been extremely busy for the past two weeks and unable to work on my AI. I'm back at home now though and have a little free time on my hands, so I hope to finish v4 soon. I note that there are some fixes in the NoAI branch that should help me A LOT so watch this space!
This is my name wrote:Good AI you got. Pathzilla profits earlier than AdmiralAI. That's what I like about your AI :) .

Unfortunately, they tend to make too much buses which already causes jams :cry: .

Good luck for your tram support (and your AI) :P
Thanks "this" (what should I call you?!). When you say earlier do you mean at early dates (1930's) or at the early point in a 10 year game?

Thanks for the screenshot,. Do you have a save of this game by any chance so that I can investigate? It is supposed to distribute its vehicles evenly between the stations in town, of which I note there are still very many!

I think the problem is related to the date of your game. The vehicle selection routine is tuned for vehicles in the 1950s, but v3 doesn't work very well for early vehicles which have a smaller capacity. I presume you are using HOVS or eGRVTS.

I have made a few changes for v4 to reduce the number of vehicles it builds in this situation but it still needs work. I also plan to have the AI change its fleet sizes and to build bypasses and side roads in v5 to ease congestion.
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Re: PathZilla (v3) - A road networking AI

Post by This is my name »

Zutty, welcome back! :D

'Earlier' means that it profits in early dates, something like 1930s, but it decline slowly until there is a chance of bankrupt on your AI.

About the date, yeah, I set it to 1920, and I have eGRVTS and Long vehicles. They make many Mack 'Bulldog's to the point where I can't make profit at all because of jams! :lol:

Well here's the nearest savegame when it occured :) . You have to wait a bit though.

Thank you for the response, I hope you release v4 soon :) .

P.S.: Call me qayyum. I am also the painter of my avatar :) .
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Re: PathZilla (v3) - A road networking AI

Post by Zutty »

Thanks again qayyum, I think I have a solution for you. I have tweaked the AI and now it manages to consistently turns a profit in the 1920's. This is acheived by reducing fleet sizes and property portfolios to keep costs down. Early vehicles have razor thin profit margins so you must lower your capital expenditure so as not to wipe out the miniscule gains that are available.
1920s-profit.png
A profitable AI in the early 1920's (using eGRVTS)
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I have uploaded v4 to the first post in this thread, which inlcudes the above changes and other many fixes and new features, most prominently ARV and tram support. It has taken me rather a long time to get this far as the introduction of so many new features in one big go brought a huge number of bugs with it too!

TBH I'm not happy with the way it has come out and I'll be making some significant changes to the way this works in v5, but I'm at least glad to have gotten all the road-type support out of the way. There are still a couple of bugs that I have been unable to fix, but I'm hoping that the devs can help me with some questions I have posted.

The moral of the story is, don't keep adding features when you should be fixing bugs!

Plus I have been extremely busy lately because I quit my job this week to go back to University... on Friday! Its been a bit hectic around here! :)

Hope you enjoy v4. Please keep the comments coming :)

Note:
Please please turn on "Allow drive-through road stops on town owned roads" (construction.road_stop_on_town_road) in the advanced settings window to get the most out of the new features.
PathZilla - A networking AI - Now with tram support.

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Re: PathZilla (v4) - A networking AI

Post by X_stream »

Great work! I'm going to try it out right away. If I find bugs or other strange things I will keep you informed, otherwise I will probably tell you how great your AI is in some day’s time :)

I don’t expect to have a lot of play time before the weekend though.

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Re: PathZilla (v4) - A networking AI

Post by Comm Cody »

Zutty i think there some thing wrong.....

*** OpenTTD Crash Report ***
Date: 2008-11-02 06:17:40
Build: r14544-noai built on Oct 28 2008 17:20:40
Language: english_US.lng
Exception C0000005 at 7C911E58
Registers:
EAX: 02288DE8 EBX: 00BC0000 ECX: 00000000 EDX: 01000001
ESI: 02288DE0 EDI: 0228ADE8 EBP: 0012F854 ESP: 0012F848
EIP: 7C911E58 EFLAGS: 00010246

Bytes at CS:EIP:
8B 09 3B 4A 04 89 55 0C 0F 85 9D 00 00 00 3B C8 0F 85 95 00 00 00 56 53

Stack trace:
00BC0000 0228ADE8 00000000 0012F928 7C910D5C 00000000 0228ADE8 0012F90C
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02311200 00BC0000 02311300 00000000 0012F96C 7C910D5C 02316D60 7C910E91
00BC0608 7C91056D 00000000 02311308 00000120 01390000 00BC01B8 02311200
00000050 00BC0298 01F26C10 00000120 02311208 7C910E91 00BC0000 0230EE98
00000000 0012F9C0 00BC0000 00000000 00000001 00BC0000 00000000 00000000
01011528 0000000A 0012F86C 0012F46C 0012F958 7C90EE18 7C910570 00000001
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00000000 0040812C 0228ADF0 004C2521 0228ADF0 00000003 02314430 004BF73C
02311348 02311364 0012F9B4 00000130 004B7861 00000000 02311348 02311348
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01000001 00000000 01000001 00000000 0012FA34 00596731 00000001 0012FA40
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02287B10 0012FAEC 00595F4D 00000000 0012FAF8 004B792C 00000000 02286214
004B75C6 004C53DA 02248D88 02288CC8 00D79A34 02AF8F28 00BC2A50 00BC2A60
00BC2A50 02AF8F28 004CD0B3 004CD0CE 00D79A34 004CCE06 0012FFB0 00596901
004C53C6 0012FB30 00595F5F FFFFFFFF 0012FB3C 004CB06B 0226A648 0226A648
00D794F8 004D86A3 00D79A34 00D79AE8 0226A648 021F3EA0 02AF8F28 0012FB3C
004CCC6F 004D868A 0012FFB0 0059732A 00000000 0012FB68 004C94D9 0226A648

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System information:
Windows version 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2
When one of your pathzilla get a bankrupt anouchment in 3 months boom! my game crashes. I had 3 pathzillas, one wrightai, and one admiralai. hope you can help me. if you need a save I'll atach it.
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