[GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Discuss the new AI features ("NoAI") introduced into OpenTTD 0.7, allowing you to implement custom AIs, and the new Game Scripts available in OpenTTD 1.2 and higher.

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Total votes: 9

fumantsu
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Post by fumantsu »

Hi,
I'm wondering what is missing from this town to grow.
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khamseen
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Post by khamseen »

fumantsu wrote: 22 Apr 2021 20:56 Hi,
I'm wondering what is missing from this town to grow.
Image 3.pngImage 4.png
You're not transporting enough passengers and mail. It says it in there in red. Note that even though it says "out of town" you don't actually have to transport them out of town, you just have to transport them somewhere so setup more buses/trains/trucks etc and get them transporting passengers and mail around town.
By default I think you need to transport 50% of the town's current available amount for passengers and mail (can be changed in the settings) so as your screenshot shows last month you had a max of 94 potential passengers but only transported 14, and 33 potential mail but only transported 7.
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Post by fumantsu »

Interesting... But I have another case which doesn't look to follow that rule except if we are talking about "combined" cargo going "out of town"
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Edit: I have 65% as factor for "from the town"
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Post by Firrel »

fumantsu wrote: 22 Apr 2021 21:40 But I have another case which doesn't look to follow that rule
There is a setting "Minimum size of town before the limit rules kicks in", so that small towns will always grow. If I remember correctly it is set to 350 population. This is to prevent from having towns that cannot be grown due to low population/house composition.
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Post by iskazain »

Hii there.
I have a question - if my town need cargo, that is not acepting by town buildings (for example grain or steel) and i have no industry near the town for this cargo, what to do?
I can build industry, but, if i use FIRS4 its too many cargoes needed and i cant build all of them near the town (i think).

How to join industry that accept cargoes for town near this town? And be sure that industry join exactly to this town but not to other nearest town?
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Post by Firrel »

iskazain wrote: 28 Apr 2021 11:28 I have a question - if my town need cargo, that is not acepting by town buildings (for example grain or steel) and i have no industry near the town for this cargo, what to do?
You need to build the industry accepting that cargo type near the town and deliver the cargo to that industry.
iskazain wrote: 28 Apr 2021 11:28 if i use FIRS4 its too many cargoes needed and i cant build all of them near the town (i think).
You don't need to supply the town with every cargo type that is in the cargo category. The main objective is to fulfill the requirement for that category and delivering multiple cargo types makes the fulfillment easier. But usually, one cargo type (one industry) is enought to fullfill one category until the town gets really big. You can also try randomization that will make each town require different set of cargo types making them unique. For FIRS 4 Steeltown, I would suggest to use "Industry descending" randomization, which creates each category from 1-2 industry types and their accepting cargo types.
iskazain wrote: 28 Apr 2021 11:28 How to join industry that accept cargoes for town near this town? And be sure that industry join exactly to this town but not to other nearest town?
You need to build the industry near that town. There are two ways of knowing it:
1. In town window in Local authority enable displaying of the local authority zone. Placing the industry in that zone will make it connected to that town.
2. Place stations around a spot you want to build an industry. Based on the names of the stations you can find if that location is adjacent to that town.

Here you can see how it works.
industries.PNG
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iskazain
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Post by iskazain »

Am i right - if i build industry belongs City 1 at the boarder of City 2, and places station from the side of City 2 within its borders, i can deliver to that industry and cargoes will be accepted by 2 towns at once?
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Post by Firrel »

iskazain wrote: 28 Apr 2021 16:27 Am i right - if i build industry belongs City 1 at the boarder of City 2, and places station from the side of City 2 within its borders, i can deliver to that industry and cargoes will be accepted by 2 towns at once?
It will not be accepted by both. But I don't know which one will take it. You can try it and post your findings. :wink:
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Post by iskazain »

I have town with over 12 000 population. And all i had delivered passengers and mail. Mostly town routes by tram. It seems too easy to grow town and no needed to deliver other cargoes... What am i doing wrong?
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Post by Firrel »

iskazain wrote: 06 May 2021 17:28 I have town with over 12 000 population. And all i had delivered passengers and mail. Mostly town routes by tram. It seems too easy to grow town and no needed to deliver other cargoes... What am i doing wrong?
You are not doing it wrong, you are just too good for the default preset. There were complains that it was too hard, so I set up the "presets": easy, medium, hard. You can choose them under settings as AI Difficulty. There are a lot of settings in this GS that can increase the difficulty, they are all described in the readme file.

I usually play on hard difficulty with cargo distribution enabled and all public transport connected. Also I spice it up with town cars, that block the routes in the towns, making it harder to scale up the public transport. I never really tried to push a town to max population, but getting a town to 10k population was an achievement.
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Post by iskazain »

Firrel wrote: 06 May 2021 18:01
iskazain wrote: 06 May 2021 17:28 I have town with over 12 000 population. And all i had delivered passengers and mail. Mostly town routes by tram. It seems too easy to grow town and no needed to deliver other cargoes... What am i doing wrong?
You are not doing it wrong, you are just too good for the default preset. There were complains that it was too hard, so I set up the "presets": easy, medium, hard. You can choose them under settings as AI Difficulty. There are a lot of settings in this GS that can increase the difficulty, they are all described in the readme file.

I usually play on hard difficulty with cargo distribution enabled and all public transport connected. Also I spice it up with town cars, that block the routes in the towns, making it harder to scale up the public transport. I never really tried to push a town to max population, but getting a town to 10k population was an achievement.
Can i change difficult during the game (in save)? Now i have Normal level.
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Post by Gondrong »

I just used this and the town window shows like on the attached pic.
Anything I did wrong?
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iskazain
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Post by iskazain »

Its ok. Just start transportation passengers and mail within the town or deliver it to other towns.
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Post by Firrel »

iskazain wrote: 06 May 2021 20:06 Can i change difficult during the game (in save)? Now i have Normal level.
It is possible to change all parameters in a running game except town sign, randomization and display cargo from start. Industry stabilizer can be only increased in density.
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Post by Slippy »

Hi,

I’ve been playing around with this script in my games (I’m after something that limits town growth in small areas and allows you to focus on a few major towns). I had a few questions though.

1. I’ve been playing with CargoDist on. As such it’s possible for stations to accept cargo if they can pass it on to somewhere else in the network. Does this qualify for satisfaction of the script? I’ve noticed that the cargo appears as delivered on the town GUI but doesn’t get used up each month and then randomly disappears after a few months.

2. I’ve noticed that towns continue to grow when they hit the next level even if that next level has not been satisfied. I’m guessing this is because not fulfilling that level just slows growth rather than outright stopping it?

3. What does the difficulty changes actually do? Does it alter the % of min cargo needed to transport for the town to grow? Alter the amount of cargo needed for it to grow?

4. In my head I want to ensure that small villages (for example a town which I only want to run a few buses into) stay small because of cargodist. Will this script do that for me? Should I bump up the % of passengers and mail needed for town growth?

Thanks!
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Firrel
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Post by Firrel »

Slippy wrote: 13 May 2021 21:24 1. I’ve been playing with CargoDist on. As such it’s possible for stations to accept cargo if they can pass it on to somewhere else in the network. Does this qualify for satisfaction of the script? I’ve noticed that the cargo appears as delivered on the town GUI but doesn’t get used up each month and then randomly disappears after a few months.
Cargo dist works the way that it decides on a destination and tries to get there using existing infrastructure. When you pick cargo from A, with destination C and one bus goes from A to B, another from B to C, the cargo is transferred in town B. However the script only counts delivered cargo, not transferred, so that the cargo will be counted in town C when in arrives there. What you see is that some of the cargo from town A gets accepted by town B and some is transferred towards town C.
Slippy wrote: 13 May 2021 21:24 2. I’ve noticed that towns continue to grow when they hit the next level even if that next level has not been satisfied. I’m guessing this is because not fulfilling that level just slows growth rather than outright stopping it?
You are correct, with each new category, the total cargo that the town wants increases by a step, which leads to a slow down of the growth. There is however a minimum cap set by "minimum supply percentage for TGR growth" parameter, that will change the growth immediately to "lowest TGR if requirements are not met" parameter value.
Slippy wrote: 13 May 2021 21:24 3. What does the difficulty changes actually do? Does it alter the % of min cargo needed to transport for the town to grow? Alter the amount of cargo needed for it to grow?
The difficulty setting changes a multiplier on how much cargo a town requires. So you need to provide more cargo to maintain that growth rate. Not supplying it will just change the growth rate to "lowest TGR if requirements are not met", but the town will still grow.
Slippy wrote: 13 May 2021 21:24 4. In my head I want to ensure that small villages (for example a town which I only want to run a few buses into) stay small because of cargodist. Will this script do that for me? Should I bump up the % of passengers and mail needed for town growth?
The parameter you want to change is "Minimum Percentage of transported cargo from town". Each town generates a set amount of passangers and mails as you can see in the default town info box. If you set it to 50%, you need to transport for example at least 50/100 passangers and 10/20 mails. The values are combined, so 80/100 pax and 7/20 mails will also work. A normal bus has a station rating of 60-65%, so that drops the amount of cargo you take from each stop. Then some of the houses are not being served, this also reduces the cargo you transport. So when a town outgrows the local infrastructure, the value drops below 50% and the growth stops completely.

You can change those parameters mid game, so fine tune it to your liking.
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Post by Slippy »

Thank you for your reply!

1. That makes sense and is how I expected it to work. This is what I am seeing though:
Village Growth Script 1.PNG
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So the coal has left the town and has been delivered to a power station that falls outside the towns local authority. However the 100 coal remains on the town GUI. After a few months the coal is then removed from the screen. I dont think its a problem - just an odd interaction/visual!

2/3/4. So to clarify for my (smol) brain. The default for min % of transported cargo from town is 30%. That means the town will only grow when 30% (or more) of the towns generated cargo is being moved, which is going to be people and mail unless you have an industry within the towns catchment area(?). However if that is going on the town will grow as long as 80% of the towns imports are being satisfied. If 80% is not being satisfied then the town can only grow at the rate of 365 (days?).

In short towns WILL grow if you export 30% just at a very slow rate if you dont import at least 80% of the towns needs.
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Post by Firrel »

Slippy wrote: 14 May 2021 19:46 So the coal has left the town and has been delivered to a power station that falls outside the towns local authority. However the 100 coal remains on the town GUI. After a few months the coal is then removed from the screen. I dont think its a problem - just an odd interaction/visual!
I am using cargo monitor GS function and what it returns I process and display. I can look into it.
Slippy wrote: 14 May 2021 19:46 2/3/4. So to clarify for my (smol) brain. The default for min % of transported cargo from town is 30%. That means the town will only grow when 30% (or more) of the towns generated cargo is being moved, which is going to be people and mail unless you have an industry within the towns catchment area(?). However if that is going on the town will grow as long as 80% of the towns imports are being satisfied. If 80% is not being satisfied then the town can only grow at the rate of 365 (days?).

In short towns WILL grow if you export 30% just at a very slow rate if you dont import at least 80% of the towns needs.
There are three presets changeable by AI difficulty game setting: easy, medium, hard. On easy difficulty, limiter is set to 30%, so as you said, it is enough to trasport 30% pax and mail to make it grow. Minimum TGR percentage is actually inverted, 80% means the TGR curve is scaled to 80% of the required cargo, so the growth is faster after providing at least 20% cargo. Maybe I should invert it or provide better explanation in the readme file.
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Post by Slippy »

There are three presets changeable by AI difficulty game setting: easy, medium, hard. On easy difficulty, limiter is set to 30%, so as you said, it is enough to trasport 30% pax and mail to make it grow. Minimum TGR percentage is actually inverted, 80% means the TGR curve is scaled to 80% of the required cargo, so the growth is faster after providing at least 20% cargo. Maybe I should invert it or provide better explanation in the readme file.
Thanks - the difficulties make sense.

Regarding the minimum town growth - seems a little counter productive to me? A town will grow if you output at least X% but it will always grow even if you don’t supply any of the inputs? Perhaps it should be inverted so oversupplying increases town production but under supplying halts town production. For example:
Town requires 100 passengers/Mail (ignore outputs)
I input 50 = no growth
I input 100 = growth
I input 200 = growth doubled
That way over supplying massively speeds up growth but the growth will slow when the demand of the towns inputs increase.

Feels like you might get a more organic/realistic town growth that way. On the other hand my way would allow for fast growth early on but would stagnate once inputs became more scarce. Probably harder to grow multiple towns
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Re: [GS] Renewed Village Growth 6.2 (RVG)

Post by Firrel »

Slippy wrote: 15 May 2021 14:56
Lets say the minimum supply percentage is 50% and the minimum growth is 880 days. If you maintain above 50%, lets say 60%, the growth will slowly fasten from 880 days to lets say 440 days over 6 months. One month it drops below 50%, the growth jumps to 880, so it needs to descend again. This is how the limit punishes the growth and one house every 880 days is almost like not growing. So it is just slightly less punishing than what you described.

This script is meant to be able to manage the requirements of multiple towns. The challenge is to have a stable supply and output.

I appreciate your feedback, but I dont plan to change this mechanic. It is taken from the original RCG script and it is well tested. Also the math behind it is not trivial, so fidling with it is not that easy.
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