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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:03 pm 
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Hello,

I've created a new scenario called Split. In this scenario you start out at one main island with all primary industries but the only available secondary industry are two steel mills. To gain access to the other secondary industries, you have to complete the goal of getting a high enough total monthly production of the steel mills.

In this map, no new industries are spawned. However, the industries that you can unlock are given in clusters of four to allow some loss of industries without ruining your game.

Download
This scenario uses a GameScript to implement the logic and therefore the prefered way of downloading it is via the in-game download system which handles dependencies for you.

Select the Split scenario for download. If everything works correctly, that will also select the Split scenario GS game script for download and its dependencies (TileLabels and SuperLib).

How its done
If you are interested how its done, see the readme of the Split scenario GS game script.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:09 am 
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Interesting, but extremely easy - my AI was able to do this in the first year. BTW, river in the north of the North Gate is broken.

EDIT: What about "production higher than 350 tonnes for 3 months" - now single train filled with 450 tonnes will do the trick.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:54 am 
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Thanks for the feedback. I'm aware of the trick of loading up enough over time and then send it to the steel mill, but decided to not try to modify the code for that before first release in order to keep it simple (and as bug free as possible). A goal over several moths also have the drawback of being harder to understand. (both the actual goal and how far you are from reaching the goal)

The goal 345 tonnes is computed as IIRC 70 or 80% of the total production of iron ore.

But if you use (longer) trains, the delivery of raw material will vary a lot from month to month. So a goal over time might be necessary to implement.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:58 am 
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What about river problem?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:42 pm 
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Kogut wrote:
What about river problem?


While I could respond to your other items without OpenTTD, this one needs me to look at the scenario in OpenTTD.

Now after having had time to do that, thanks for noticing the problem. I will address it in the next update.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:48 am 
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I've now uploaded a new version of this scenario that should be harder than the previous version:

  • You must keep the production above the limit for 3 months
  • The limit have been raised to 400 tonnes. (the bundled ChangeLog wrongly states that it has been raised to 380)
  • The name of the IdleMore AI have been changed so that pro players/devs don't think that I just included it by mistake and tries to remove it. (it is critical for the scenario to work. A game script cannot raise land for free, so the AI is there to host enough money to pay for raising the land)
  • I've connected the river north of North Gate to the sea
  • The production of the mine in the west part of the map have been raised slightly.
  • There is now two new news messages. One when the production goes over the limit and you start counting the 3 months and another if you drop below the limit and abort counting the time. (these news are in the General category which must be enabled in your news settings)

When I've play-tested it, it is not very hard to reach the goal, but you cannot take too much time to reach the goal or the industries in south east may have disappeared already.

Download
Ensure that you get both the Split scenario and the SplitScenarioGS game script of version 2. Only upgrading/downloading one of them is not enough. To play, click play scenario in the main menu.

Its not supported to upgrade existing games of the old version to the new version. Once you started to play a scenario, you are stuck with that version and are not allowed to use newer script versions with that save.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:19 am 
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Nice to see a scenario/NoGo combination :)! It immediately struck me as a campaign mode such as for other games, which is nice. It wasn't that hard, but when I connected all industries I was often swinging between above/below 400. I had to upgrade all loco's to SH8P and build statues in all towns to reach it. If that's your goal: good, but I would guess that connecting and balancing all industries would be enough (so: always 1 train waiting, etc.). Because of that, 1200 in 3 consecutive months would possibly be better, if possible. Are there any goals after reaching the first? The reason to play the scenario is (other than to test :P) that sandboxing can got boring after a while so I would expect more goals.

With the NewGRFs selected and the original base graphics, crossings don't match straight track. See screenshot.
Dependency doesn't work for me (neither way) at bananas.

Not specific to your scenario but probably to NoGo: it struck me as weird that the script talked to me through the blue screens at one moment and through the news-messages at other moments. It did work though, that's not the problem :) I guess it would be nice if progress and goals could be tracked in a windows somewhat like the chat-window in multi-player (see screenshot). Wording could probably be better... in this case, the last three months should be given I guess, something like this:

Target: Production of 300 for 3 consecutive months.
Your production in Okt 2030 was 389. This is too little. Counting starts over.
Your production in Sept 2030 was 640. This is the second consecutive month >300.
Your production in Aug 2030 was 420. This is the first consecutive month >300.

Oh, and before I clicked the button to the website in OpenTTD, I searched the NoGo area first for this script. Is the scenario forum the logical place and do I have weird reasoning or would NoGo-forum more appropriate?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:37 pm 
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bokkie wrote:
Nice to see a scenario/NoGo combination :)! It immediately struck me as a campaign mode such as for other games, which is nice. It wasn't that hard, but when I connected all industries I was often swinging between above/below 400. I had to upgrade all loco's to SH8P and build statues in all towns to reach it. If that's your goal: good, but I would guess that connecting and balancing all industries would be enough (so: always 1 train waiting, etc.).

Thanks. Nice that you liked it. When I played it (version 2), the time when I reached the goal there was only one industry left of some of the secondary industries. While its true that I had only to connect all industries and not even buy any statues to accomplish it, if I would have been too slow, there would be no present for me when I succeeded.

bokkie wrote:
Because of that, 1200 in 3 consecutive months would possibly be better, if possible. Are there any goals after reaching the first? The reason to play the scenario is (other than to test :P) that sandboxing can got boring after a while so I would expect more goals.

Currently, if you play version two of the scenario, you have to stay above the limit in 3 months in a row. Is your suggestion to raise the limit from 400 to 1200?

I guess that is possible and then use the money deposit to pay for new industries when you accomplish the goal as the industries may all be dead by the time you reach 1200.

Regarding other goals. No there is no more goals. While I realized that it could be a map with many more things to unlock, I decided that it was enough as a proof of concept and hopefully inspire others to create more advanced scenarios.

bokkie wrote:
With the NewGRFs selected and the original base graphics, crossings don't match straight track. See screenshot.

Do you know which particular NewGRF that should be avoided in combination with some other to not cause that problem with original base set?

bokkie wrote:
Dependency doesn't work for me (neither way) at bananas.

It did work for version 1, but it had to be set manually by one of the devs. I did send an email to them after uploading the second version, but apparently they have had more interesting things to do so far than setting dependencies for my uploads. :-)

bokkie wrote:
Not specific to your scenario but probably to NoGo: it struck me as weird that the script talked to me through the blue screens at one moment and through the news-messages at other moments. It did work though, that's not the problem :)

I'd say that it is specific to my scenario. My idea was to use the blue window for longer texts like the welcome message, but not for shorter or less important messages. Only the most important messages are in the blue dialogs, but I don't want to spam blue dialogs with news items. One difference is also that players can turn off the news messages, but not the blue dialogs.

bokkie wrote:
I guess it would be nice if progress and goals could be tracked in a windows somewhat like the chat-window in multi-player (see screenshot). Wording could probably be better... in this case, the last three months should be given I guess, something like this:

Target: Production of 300 for 3 consecutive months.
Your production in Okt 2030 was 389. This is too little. Counting starts over.
Your production in Sept 2030 was 640. This is the second consecutive month >300.
Your production in Aug 2030 was 420. This is the first consecutive month >300.


If you open the AI debug window and click on the GS button there, you can get something similar for the Split scenario. What you see is basically what I decide to print to the debug log. Most of my AIs/GSs have three log levels which can be configured in the settings. Default is usually the least verbose level.

bokkie wrote:
Oh, and before I clicked the button to the website in OpenTTD, I searched the NoGo area first for this script. Is the scenario forum the logical place and do I have weird reasoning or would NoGo-forum more appropriate?

I though that the main property of this creation is that it is a scenario that have some additional scripting. Therefore I put it in the scenario forum. For novice players, the script is only a technical detail. When the dependency works, they should just pick the scenario in the download list, click to play it and go. In the scenario they get told all details they need to know about the goal in the scenario.

But you are right that from a technical point of view, there is also a game script involved which could motivate to put the scenario in the AI/GS forum. I might actually create a dummy thread there that link here and ask a mod to lock it.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:49 pm 
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I forgot to add that I like the map with some hills to work around! :)

Zuu wrote:
Currently, if you play version two of the scenario, you have to stay above the limit in 3 months in a row. Is your suggestion to raise the limit from 400 to 1200?

I guess that is possible and then use the money deposit to pay for new industries when you accomplish the goal as the industries may all be dead by the time you reach 1200.


No, my suggestion is to keep track of the production of the last 3 months, add it together and look if it's above 1200 (or 1300, 1400 since otherwise it would lower difficulty). That way you won't get punished if your supply is too irregular (say 600, 395, 600).

Zuu wrote:
Regarding other goals. No there is no more goals. While I realized that it could be a map with many more things to unlock, I decided that it was enough as a proof of concept and hopefully inspire others to create more advanced scenarios.


It does! Somehow there aren't that many people creating these so such a proof of concept might help :)

Zuu wrote:
bokkie wrote:
With the NewGRFs selected and the original base graphics, crossings don't match straight track. See screenshot.

Do you know which particular NewGRF that should be avoided in combination with some other to not cause that problem with original base set?


It's OpenGFX+ landscape. Apparently it doesn't overrides graphics in junctions.

Zuu wrote:
If you open the AI debug window and click on the GS button there, you can get something similar for the Split scenario. What you see is basically what I decide to print to the debug log. Most of my AIs/GSs have three log levels which can be configured in the settings. Default is usually the least verbose level.


Solution for now, but not really for the game. Oh well, maybe I'll post it in the NoGo thread!

Zuu wrote:
bokkie wrote:
Oh, and before I clicked the button to the website in OpenTTD, I searched the NoGo area first for this script. Is the scenario forum the logical place and do I have weird reasoning or would NoGo-forum more appropriate?

I though that the main property of this creation is that it is a scenario that have some additional scripting. Therefore I put it in the scenario forum. For novice players, the script is only a technical detail. When the dependency works, they should just pick the scenario in the download list, click to play it and go. In the scenario they get told all details they need to know about the goal in the scenario.

But you are right that from a technical point of view, there is also a game script involved which could motivate to put the scenario in the AI/GS forum. I might actually create a dummy thread there that link here and ask a mod to lock it.


I guess it's best to keep it in the Scenario forum but in my mind it's more related to NoGo since this wasn't possible without it :) Then the only problem for me is that I've got to leave the OpenTTD area :p


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:11 pm 
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bokkie wrote:
No, my suggestion is to keep track of the production of the last 3 months, add it together and look if it's above 1200 (or 1300, 1400 since otherwise it would lower difficulty). That way you won't get punished if your supply is too irregular (say 600, 395, 600).

You mean like a moving average?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:14 pm 
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I can't succeed, I've 15 trains, everyone with 7-9 wagons, and steel production change from 0 to 800. suggestions? thanks


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:36 am 
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Posting your savegame might help others determine what's going wrong :)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:53 pm 
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after some more minutes, I succeed, but I haven't change nothing, so I don't understand why now it works
however, I think that real question is: better many trains with few wagons or few trains with many wagons?
thanks


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:25 pm 
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In this case rather many trains because of the points I mentioned earlier.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:54 pm 
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Having lots of fun playing with this scenario, I'm now trying it with just road vehicles, but by the time I got one factory setup, the other one decided to quit on me. I assume this means game over :P

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:27 pm 
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You only need to supply one steel mill with cargo. The scenario add up the production of both steel mills.

The reason why you got more than one, is to allow one to close without causing you to lose the scenario.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:42 pm 
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Excellent thanks, was able to complete it using just trucks, took 160 of them covering all 5 mines, and a lot of tweaking to get to 400 a month.


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