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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 9:46 am 
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Let me introduce you to my first upload 'Freight Train Challenge 100', a scenario testing the ultimate level of skill in concentrated networking. There's no problem keeping the money flowing ever for this 128x128 map but the challenge lies in the sheer tonnage that lies before you. And I can tell you that it IS POSSIBLE but you may have to start planning right from the start or you'll end up completely stuck behind your own infrastructure.
I made it after I found the random industry generation tool left messy industries and never quite enough of them. After several successful attempts I'm still trying to get a better network into the same space.
Good luck and have fun!


Attachments:
File comment: Screenshot of an almost successful FTC
FreightTrainChallenge.jpg [257.63 KiB]
Downloaded 8 times
File comment: Freight Train Challenge 100
FreightTrainChallenge100.scn [17.78 KiB]
Downloaded 778 times
File comment: Save file of an almost successful FTC
FreightTrainChallenge.sav [72.93 KiB]
Downloaded 485 times


Last edited by YardKing on Mon May 07, 2012 6:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 8:02 pm 
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:shock: Wow, that's complex to say the least...

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Well I did make a scenario, once...


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 3:06 pm 
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Could you provide a saved game please to make an idea of what can be done?

I suggest you to rise the industries production in the editor: this way you can put less mines and other primary industries next to one another.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:21 pm 
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This seems kind of interesting, giving it a try and seeing what I can do with this scenario!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:27 am 
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okay, so this thread is more than 2 years old, BUT...

that szenario is really great!

I managed to get all (but one, see later) between 80 and 90%, only oil hangs at 60-70% whatever I do (perhaps one solution could be exact timing but I have no idea how I manage that).

Here is my map and an extra map where I coloured different types of freight. (red: combination of some types)

First I built the 4 main stations, then I placed all other stations.
The first line was the hole Ironore/farm line at the bottom. (I should have placed that "main"line two tiles to the left/bottom and put from start on two lines per direction)

Yes, I cheated and added some land-tiles, only to optimize station flow, I am ashamed

any thoughts?


Attachments:
File comment: normal view
freight_train_challenge_detailed.png [3.78 MiB]
Downloaded 5 times
File comment: coloured paths
freight_train_challenge_detailed_freightlines.png [3.11 MiB]
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:03 am 
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wow that looks awesome, how long did it take to make all of that?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:48 pm 
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I'm not sure.

Well, since you can't do anything when the game is stopped (at least in this szenario) and you start playing in 1995 and now I have reached 2050 - that gives a time window, but:

I think the general network was finished around 2020, with more and more optimazation going on (and each time for that some period of time in fast forward)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:24 am 
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That's awesome! I'll tell you that the thing about the oil wells is either replace the boats so they're new or advertise in the towns but otherwise you smashed it :)

And I'm sorry for making the station areas so small. They are unnecessarily constricting.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:41 am 
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advertisement or statue have ZERO effect on "oil platforms" because the station there is to "everyone".

If you want to achieve over the 70% transported there, you will need to create an island next to it where you can build your own docks.

Your Own docks will have a city name, build a statue in that town and here you have allready gained 10% of qualitiy of service(after rerouting your ships to your dock).

The advertisement will probably not work though ...because usually oilrigs are just too far away. (advertisement is limited to station that are located within the "4" town zone area i think)


So now you might want to know how to achieve better than 80 % ? well replace the island docks with a train station(make an even bigger island), and deliver oil with fast trains, here you ll gain again some more % transported because speed of vehicule is taken in account.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:58 pm 
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While randomly browsing the forums, I found this, and thought it would be fun to try.

Attached is my attempt. You need a nightly (perhaps the 1.5 will also work, not sure) for the save game.

All industries at land are above 80%, oil rigs are above 70%.
Since I constructed things while paused, the year is much earlier. The entire game took about 10 hours real time.


Attachments:
File comment: savegame
O'Donnell & Co., 2007-03-10.sav [64.7 KiB]
Downloaded 67 times
File comment: main view showing the entire map
freight_challenge_overview.png [639.67 KiB]
Downloaded 2 times
File comment: entire game at normal view (5.2MB)
full_overview.png [4.92 MiB]
Downloaded 2 times

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:42 pm 
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Alberth, do you transport any goods from the secondary industries to the cities?

I couldn't find any trains of that kind in the screenshot and they nearly double the amount of trains (not to mention the tracks), which was my big problem


apart from that: your tracks look cleaner, may you elaborate in what steps you built the network?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:08 pm 
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osroot wrote:
Alberth, do you transport any goods from the secondary industries to the cities?

I couldn't find any trains of that kind in the screenshot and they nearly double the amount of trains (not to mention the tracks), which was my big problem
Hmm, no I didn't transport stuff to towns, I don't find towns very interesting. With ships it would be easy to do though.


osroot wrote:
apart from that: your tracks look cleaner, may you elaborate in what steps you built the network?
I tend to build very few tracks, and expand only where it is needed. I also do a lot of small scale shuffling to make it nicer, and swapped bridges at several points when it improved the situation. All the tracks at the bottom right, below the coal mines , and towards the right ore mines were particularly tricky, lots of different flows going in many directions.
At first I thought I would have to do a lot of track sharing, but in the end I made mostly dedicated tracks, and I still had space to spare. (Dedicated tracks is also good for flow, so it's nice to have room.)

For building, I first made a screenshot and drew lines from primary to secondary industries to get an idea of what needed to go where (didn't save it, so I don't have it any more).
Then I tried to design some general track layout, but that failed on me getting confused on their direction. What did became clear though was that both at the left and at the right in the area between the secondary industries, I needed track in both directions. In the center, just down seemed sufficient (I had a quick try to see if both ways would work, but there wasn't enough room).
At the top, south of the farms needed to go from left to right due to the ore at the right. At the bottom left to right needed also two directions, coal was needed at the right, while farm cargoes and iron ore needed to go to the left side.
The bottom double directions are really due to my decision to have two stations 'after each other' with the coal/ore, and wood/coal at the left 'horizontal' direction, the only place to move cargo from right to left was at the bottom.

At the far right, I think the trick was to have outgoing ore+coal flow between both rows of ore, which made it quite simple to attach the ore flow to the left-going flow at the bottom, and the coal down at the right.

I mostly put down the stations first, thinking about the direction of the trains and the flow of cargo. I started with the left part, and ran out of money doing that, so I connected the ore mines at the left first to get a little money flow. Then the wood seemed so unconnected at the left, so I added those to the saw mill.
The other wood was easily connected (except for the single forest at the right). At the same time I also connected the coal mine at the left, even though the power plant wasn't connected yet.
Wood outgoing flow and ore flow both going up towards the steel mill interfered, and the track was split.

After the sawmill, I added the power plant, and connected the coal mines at the left and at the middle part. I had some trouble with the flow of wood and coal going to the right at the bottom, which took a few attempts to get right.

The main part left to do was now at the far right, and I figured out where to put the stations and the flow. Plenty of money, so just connect it all. The flow up and down at the right was again a problem that needed fixing.
Also, the secondary industries (power plant first) got a lot of traffic by now, so they needed double entry lines, and more than 2 platforms. Wood at the right seemed easy enough. I should have added 2 platforms there, but at the time I thought I'd need the space for some track. Later the authorities didn't let me add a second platform.

The factory was last. The two sets of farms at the north were easy, from the factory, up to the steelmill, to the farms, and down along the center. At the bottom there were 2 rows free below the ore, plenty of space :)
The farm at the bottom right was more of a problem, but in the end I decided an empty grain/livestock train could go at the bottom line with wood towards the right, and then the problem was easy to solve. I also looked into getting the outflow down through the center, but there wasn't enough space, so I just made it use the bottom left-going flow instead.

Unfortunately, my farm connections used all space that I had planned for the oil flow, so that needed a new plan. The south-ward canal was very tricky, lots of crossing tracks there, and very little room. I moved a few stations 1 or 2 tiles to make it all fit. The north looked very tricky too, until I realized that I could put the canal between the farms and the station, and along-side the center town to the water that I had already created for the south connections. I didn't want to have many ships, so one of the oilrigs in each group of 4 acts as a feeder for the other 3. I expected to need many ships, but in the end only a few were needed. I didn't bother setting it up precisely, just buying 'enough' ships to get the job done (ships are not very interesting to me.)

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:00 am 
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Nice work Alberth! It is a lot more challenging when you do secondary industries too. Only attempt that if you're willing to invest another ten hours.

Interestingly, nobody has built docks on the lighthouse islands. If you do that, the docks will collect from all the oil rigs.

Apparently you're a developer Alberth. I've written an AI which simply monitors your progress in this scenario and let's you know when you've finally achieved the goal. I just though you'd be interested.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:46 am 
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YardKing wrote:
Nice work Alberth! It is a lot more challenging when you do secondary industries too. Only attempt that if you're willing to invest another ten hours.
I might try again at one point, it was quite fun.

YardKing wrote:
Interestingly, nobody has built docks on the lighthouse islands. If you do that, the docks will collect from all the oil rigs.
Your hint was too subtle, apparently :)
A disadvantage of the current setup is that the ships are not visible in the game while they are loading.

YardKing wrote:
Apparently you're a developer Alberth.
Ha, that happens sort of auto-magically, once you start making large enough patches for an open source program :p

YardKing wrote:
I've written an AI which simply monitors your progress in this scenario and let's you know when you've finally achieved the goal. I just though you'd be interested.
Nice, you know about the 'split scenario'? Zuu wrote that. You have to deliver an amount of cargo to an industry, and then a 'bridge' opens (AI throws money in, and builds land across a large body of water), and you can continue building.

Nowadays, you'd do that with a game script. I believe there is a great future in combined scenario + game scripts. For example, in this scenario you could randomize the position of the secondary industries. Also, you could post news about progress, there are lots of possibilities.

Thanks for the scenario, even if I needed almost 3 years to find it :p

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Also, other OpenTTD developers may have different opinions.


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