UK Scenario(s)

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JonScaife
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UK Scenario(s)

Post by JonScaife » 03 Mar 2009 21:35

I posted a UK Scenario (see http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=564838#p564838) some time ago (March 2007) and since then started and stalled work on a much improved version. I've now restarted work on this, but due to the huge improvements in OpenTTD in the last 18 months, it makes more sense for me to restart from scratch. However, the second version of the map that I created is complete and great fun to play, it is just lacking in industries. I'll post it here and anyone who wishes to play it can add industries themselves if they wish. In the meantime I'm hard at work on version 3, which will use ECS Vectors and require OpenTTD version 0.7. Version 3 will be very similar in most details to version 2, so any feedback on version 2 will be very appreciated.

So for those interested. Version 1 is at http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=564838#p564838

Attached is Version 2. Tested with OpenTTD 0.6.3

Details...

*************
* Geography *
*************

2048x2048
Created using NASA SRTM v3 Datasets
No lighthouses or TV masts placed

******************
* Towns / Cities *
******************

Populations are approx real 2001 populations / 250
To be included population must be greater than 2,500 in the real world (equivalent to 10 in the game)
Towns / Cities have been included on the following basis
- all cities (officially must be above 100,000)
- all towns over 60,000
- all other cities (under 100,000 but with a cathedral)
- all county towns (towns that originally gave the county its name)
- all towns on National Rail Passenger Map
- other towns of significance (usually geographically significant)

Towns have been carefully sited using various terrain overlays and map data from microsoft autoroute, google earth and google maps.
418 towns in total (increased from 197 in v1).
Total map population 170,538 (real world equivalent 42 million).

************
* Industry *
************

Never done, sorry!

***************************
* Changes since version 1 *
***************************

- Mainland Europe and Ireland are now populated with towns.
- More than twice as many towns included.
- Towns more carefully sited to be as accurate as possible to real world.
- Edges of Ireland no longer cut off.
- Terrain is more realistic, its much harder to level thru the pennines or the scottish highlands.
Attachments
The UK (Version 2.0 beta 2 - 1-07-07).zip
UK Scenario v2 (beta 2) 1st-July-07
(1.63 MiB) Downloaded 2709 times

zytok
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Re: UK Scenario(s)

Post by zytok » 09 Mar 2009 09:43

Hi Jon,

spoke to you some time ago via pm re an updated UK Scenario. I spent a huge amount of time on mine to the point where it is near completion. I've mapped every town over 25000 population using the spreadsheet you kindly sent me and sized them to 1/100. Placed oil rigs, refineries, forests, iron mines, coal mines and power stations in their real-world locations, drawn in and labelled major rivers & labelled every football league stadium. Lighthouses are placed and named as are TV masts.

Only things that are missing really is factories (though easy to scatter around populated areas) and other minor industry such as clay/gravel.

Would you like me to send you my work so far? I'm happy to share credits on a release as my map was inspired by your work in the first place and I've used your research to help me.
Last edited by zytok on 15 Jun 2009 09:45, edited 1 time in total.

SHADOW-XIII
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Re: UK Scenario(s)

Post by SHADOW-XIII » 11 Mar 2009 13:11

London bit too huge comparing to other cities but map is awesome
would love to see it with industries placed according to real life positions!
what are you looking at? it's a signature!

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Re: UK Scenario(s)

Post by JonScaife » 11 Mar 2009 14:54

Progress on V3 is good. Have got a fully labelled terrain that looks pretty good. Have got about 50 cities placed so far. If anyone could tell me how to create a screen-shot of the entire map / entire mini-map I'd be very grateful. (I've tried using ctrl-G, but it creates a corrupt image. FWIW I'm using OpenTTD 0.7.0-beta1 x64 on Windows 7 x64 beta1 with 4gig ram)

Just mention here while I'm at it - it would be great if River tiles could be diagonal half-tiles (like ocean tiles). Also. creating good maps of the real world would be much easier if there was a larger range of heights available (There are currently 15, in "50 meter" intervals from 0 - 700m). A 700m range seems somewhat restrictive.
zytok wrote:Hi Jon,

spoke to you some time ago via pm re an updated UK Scenario. I spent a huge amount of time on mine to the point where it is near completion. I've mapped every town over 100,000 population using the spreadsheet you kindly sent me and sized them to 1/100. Placed oil rigs, refineries, forests, iron mines, coal mines and power stations in their real-world locations, drawn in and labelled major rivers & labelled every football league stadium. Lighthouses are placed and named as are TV masts.

Only things that are missing really is factories (though easy to scatter around populated areas) and other minor industry such as clay/gravel.

Would you like me to send you my work so far? I'm happy to share credits on a release as my map was inspired by your work in the first place and I've used your research to help me.
Cheers for sending me your work. I've already got a terrain I created several weeks before I posted - I'm using a slightly larger area than yours as I wanted to include all of the UK, Ireland, The Benelux countries and Northern France.

I'd be interested if you've got any good sources for the locations of industry (particularly the ECS industry set) beyond the rather vague collection of images I've already got. Cheers again :)
SHADOW-XIII wrote:London bit too huge comparing to other cities but map is awesome
would love to see it with industries placed according to real life positions!
Heh, yeah, London is fairly huge - but thats because it IS huge. Look at it on Google Earth compared to the next biggest city in the UK (Birmingham). Its population is 8x bigger too. It's just a realistic representation. In v3 I've managed to keep the population and physical size about correct, but it takes up less map squares so its easier to get station coverage of.

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Re: UK Scenario(s)

Post by zytok » 16 Mar 2009 14:45


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Re: UK Scenario(s)

Post by Class93 » 12 Jun 2009 12:46

Sorry to bump an old thread - I'm sure someone will give me a ticking off for it :oops:

But just wondered if Jon had any update on v3 of his fantastic UK map?

Also I remember seeing Jon was considering producing his own GRF Train Set (including my namesake on here - the class 93). Was this cancelled or incorporated into BR Set?

Great to see Jons resurrecting his work as recently as March 2009 :)

Pat :D
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Re: UK Scenario(s)

Post by zytok » 15 Jun 2009 09:20

I would like to post my own map as mentioned above. This is in no way however meant to try to step on Jon's toes so I will wait for his approval to upload mine.

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Re: UK Scenario(s)

Post by zytok » 17 Jun 2009 09:32

ok, I'm gonna attach my map as it's about done though would of course welcome any feedback. I have asked Jon Scaife for permission to upload this as it is based on his map and some of his research but he doesn't seem to be contactable. If he's not happy about anything I shall delete the post.

I have trimmed away the pikka industry to keep it simple and minimised the number of grf's.
Attachments
251108.scn
(3.29 MiB) Downloaded 778 times

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Class93
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Re: UK Scenario(s)

Post by Class93 » 17 Jun 2009 10:59

Few city size issues Zytok - Sandwell has 21k population for example where as Brum has only 4k.
"You would make a ship sail against the winds and currents by lighting a bon-fire under her deck? I have no time for such nonsense." - Napoleon, on Robert Fulton's Steamship

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Re: UK Scenario(s)

Post by zytok » 17 Jun 2009 13:03

eh that's odd.

Sandwell has an ingame pop of circa 2875 (equivalent to 287500 real llife and is the result of a merger of the pops of Oldbury, Smethwick and West Brom as they are too close together to separate in-game.
Brum's is around 10000 (approx 1m real world).
Can you check your grf's as I know that the surburban renewal houses grf affects pops if not loaded.

for reference, the only grf's in use are

Stolen Trees
Surburban renewal houses
uk roadset
open gfx new terrain, landscape & vehicles
uk waypoints
uk renewal train set
hovs uk bus set

may need 0.7.0 to run properly, not sure.

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Re: UK Scenario(s)

Post by dafadau » 14 Aug 2009 11:49

Hey,

Loving the scenario.

Thought I'd point out some oddness in South Wales - You have both The Rhondda and Treherbert as sepereate towns - the Rhondda is a valley comprised of lots of villages and towns - Treherbert being the town at the top of the valley. Does make sense to have both there?

Also there's no Pontypridd where the Rhondda, Cynon Valley (where Aberdare is), and the Merthyr valley meet. Pontypridd is bigger than all of those other town which are present!

Wales as a whole is quite sparse on towns!

If I can help out, please let me know.

Cheers.

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Re: UK Scenario(s)

Post by JonScaife » 31 Aug 2009 17:21

zytok wrote:ok, I'm gonna attach my map as it's about done though would of course welcome any feedback. I have asked Jon Scaife for permission to upload this as it is based on his map and some of his research but he doesn't seem to be contactable. If he's not happy about anything I shall delete the post.
Sorry I haven't been on much recently. Glad you posted the map, sorry for holding you up.
Class93 wrote:But just wondered if Jon had any update on v3 of his fantastic UK map?
Yes. Its not done, but its got enough things on it now for me to post a very "alpha" version that for feedback. It's attached to this post :)
Note - you should have OpenTTD 0.7+ and the ECS vectors. If you don't it might still work but no promises.
So far done are: Terrain shape and labels, Rivers, Lighthouses (UK only), TV Antennas (UK only), Oil Wells, Oil Rigs, Oil Refineries, Coal Power Stations, 90 most populous cities
Still to do: Lighthouses and TV Antennas in Ireland and Euroland, Other industries, additional 443 towns/cities

Also - for anyone interested - I've used a lot of painstakingly crafted google earth overlays to help me get things correct on this map. For anyone making / tinkering with their own scenarios of the UK or parts of it I've also attached what I hope is a google earth overlay file that contains everything I've used so far.
Class93 wrote:Also I remember seeing Jon was considering producing his own GRF Train Set (including my namesake on here - the class 93). Was this cancelled or incorporated into BR Set?
I have a complete set of stats and its not far from being coded. However, I have discovered I am totally incapable of drawing sprites, so I put it on hold until I finish the scenario. If anyone wants to collaborate - and can draw sprites that would be excellent. I've got specs for 23 steam locos that were built between 1830 and 1940. I'll provide more details on request. This is a different set from the one you refer to which seemed too much a duplication of previous work. The intention of this set is to provide rail vehicles with real dates going back to the dawn of steam in the 1830's. So games can be prolonged :)
Attachments
The UK (Version 3.0.a3, 11-Aug-09).scn
Demo release of V3 UK Scenario. For feedback only. Altho I wont sue you for playing it :)
(2.92 MiB) Downloaded 751 times
OpenTTD UK Scenario GE Overlay.zip
Google Earth overlay created for reference when creating OpenTTD UK Scenario v3
(3.98 MiB) Downloaded 454 times

JonScaife
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Re: UK Scenario(s)

Post by JonScaife » 31 Aug 2009 17:42

dafadau wrote:Hey,

Loving the scenario.

Thought I'd point out some oddness in South Wales - You have both The Rhondda and Treherbert as sepereate towns - the Rhondda is a valley comprised of lots of villages and towns - Treherbert being the town at the top of the valley. Does make sense to have both there?

Also there's no Pontypridd where the Rhondda, Cynon Valley (where Aberdare is), and the Merthyr valley meet. Pontypridd is bigger than all of those other town which are present!

Wales as a whole is quite sparse on towns!

If I can help out, please let me know.

Cheers.
Cheers! This is really useful feedback. My "town" list is a bit of a hodgepodge from wikipedia, various government docs, and google maps, so i'm not surprised i've stuffed a few things up. I'm guessing I mislabelled Pontypridd as Rhondda. Would that make sense?

I've added 115 towns to my list for v3, altho most of these are in Euroland. If anyone would like to suggest places in Wales (or anywhere else) that they think should be included just post them with their population and I'll add them (only places with populations of 2,500 or more tho please!)

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Re: UK Scenario(s)

Post by JonScaife » 01 Sep 2009 21:17

JonScaife wrote:Just mention here while I'm at it - it would be great if River tiles could be diagonal half-tiles (like ocean tiles). Also. creating good maps of the real world would be much easier if there was a larger range of heights available (There are currently 15, in "50 meter" intervals from 0 - 700m). A 700m range seems somewhat restrictive.
Anyone got any info on if anything has been said about either of these? Have any reasons been given why these aren't / can't be done? As someone who doesn't really do any serious programming I can't really do it myself, but I can't think of any generic reasons why these would be difficult.

Another issue that i'd welcome any suggestions on... Creating a large and detailed scenario takes a lot of time. During which the entire map gets totally covered in trees. There really should be some way of controlling tree spawning whilst in the scenario editor. Can anyone suggest any way that I can either prevent any more trees from appearing, or better still, a way of demolishing the trees without demolishing anything else. manually clearing ~4.1million squares (2048x2048map) really shouldn't be necessary. I realise I could just leave them in place, but then players will have to build overtop a lot of trees and town-ratings will presumably suffer accordingly

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Re: UK Scenario(s)

Post by zytok » 06 Oct 2009 09:22

getting game load failed, broken savegame, unknown chunk type here....???

edit. reinstalled the game, working now.
Last edited by zytok on 06 Oct 2009 09:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UK Scenario(s)

Post by Gremnon » 06 Oct 2009 09:27

If you are using a modified build (or they created it using a modified build) you'll likely hit that problem. Solution? Open it an un-modified build instead. Or, if it was created using one, have it re-created out of one, but that's more work entirely.

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Re: UK Scenario(s)

Post by JonScaife » 06 Oct 2009 11:58

Gremnon wrote:If you are using a modified build (or they created it using a modified build) you'll likely hit that problem. Solution? Open it an un-modified build instead. Or, if it was created using one, have it re-created out of one, but that's more work entirely.
The last 2 posts seem a bit offtopic? Were they refering the the scenario? If so, I'll take this opportunity to clarify - I always create scenarios with unmodified official releases, in this case version 0.7.2

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Re: UK Scenario(s)

Post by JonScaife » 03 Jun 2010 17:42

Update!

I've put alpha release 4 of The UK Scenario v3 onto BaNaNaS, along with the height-map I based it on. Its now got about half the total towns planned.

It's been on hold since last September as I've been really busy, but I've got some spare time coming up and am optimistic about my chances of finishing it in the next 6-8 weeks

Feedback/corrections/comments are still very welcome
Attachments
v3a4.jpg
UK Scenario v3 alpha 4
v3a4.jpg (62.89 KiB) Viewed 21711 times

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Re: UK Scenario(s)

Post by SHADOW-XIII » 03 Jun 2010 19:44

looks very promising
(I just hope for version without roads, if you plan roads)

I am going to wait for final version, but am sure to enjoy it
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Re: UK Scenario(s)

Post by JonScaife » 03 Jun 2010 20:46

SHADOW-XIII wrote:looks very promising
(I just hope for version without roads, if you plan roads)

I am going to wait for final version, but am sure to enjoy it
I won't be putting roads on. You can do that yourself. :D

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