London Northwestern and West Midlands Railway

[JamieLei]

Last week I visited home in Birmingham. I also took the 'London Midland' service because I'm cheap. I'd forgotten that it was the first week of the operation of the new franchise.

Of course, on week one, I didn't expect or experience any significant changes. But a taster of some things to come:

- Brand new fleet for the Cross City line, which I would have benefited from
- Lots of new trains for the West Coast services, which I would have benefited from
- Delay repay at 15 minutes rather than 30 (I was delayed by 30 minutes anyway, and submitted my compensation claim the following day)
- D stock for the Marston Vale Line!
- 172s replacing the 153 for Nuneaton - Coventry, then on to Kenilworth and Leamington

And of course, everyone's favourite point...

West Midlands Railway


London Northwestern

[Geo Ghost]

God those liveries are utterly ghastly!

Fire the design team!

[Gwyd]

I like the livery on the 350

[Pilot]

D stock for the Marston Vale Line!

This doesn't really excite me - yes, the 150s and 153s that run the route are old, but the D-Stock itself is older. Yes, they've had a refurb, but surely a refurbished 150 and 153 is better than an old Tube train?

I am, however, rather happy to see the extension of services up towards Preston once more, I remember London Midland removing them not long after they gained the franchise. The one trick I think they may miss however, is that they likely won't be serving Newton-le-Willows or Earlestown, which could provide a fairly decent interchange (especially Newton-le-Willows) for services towards Manchester and Liverpool.

The Green 350 livery is growing on me, but I am starting to miss the Yellow fronts now that the regulations have changed. Bring Yellow back!

[Kevo00]

So another easily forgettable here today gone tomorrow franchise change? Whoever ends up writing up this period of railway history is going to have a messy task! When I lived in Milton Keynes, I actually quite liked London Midland.

Can't believe that a franchise is actually taking up the nutty D-Stock idea. I have a soft spot for the Marston Vale Line - I guess its one of those situations where it might not be particularly good, but at least its going to be interesting.

[Badger]

God awful liveries, especially the greener one.
Think how much money is wasted on new liveries and rebranding every time there's a new franchise owner.

[Ameecher]

The Green 350 livery is growing on me, but I am starting to miss the Yellow fronts now that the regulations have changed. Bring Yellow back!

The 350s aren't allowed to not have yellow. Hence why the door of the corridor connection remains yellow, that's the bit that makes it look silly in my opinion. All green or more yellow would look better but I really couldn't care that much.

I'm amazed that they offered up the 15 minute compensation agreement in their negotiations. As Euston goes in to HS2 building stages and platforms are taken out of use that just strikes me as an awful decision, especially as the compensation will go to the customer and then Network Rail or HS2 Ltd will end up compensating LNWT which means the treasury is ultimately footing the bill. How silly.

[Gwyd]

It reminds me of some of the older SR liveries, where only the corridor was yellow

[Dave]

Pipe dreams in play are also reopening several lines in conjunction with the office of the new Greater Birmingham (VOMIT) mayor.

[JamieLei]

I'm amazed that they offered up the 15 minute compensation agreement in their negotiations. As Euston goes in to HS2 building stages and platforms are taken out of use that just strikes me as an awful decision, especially as the compensation will go to the customer and then Network Rail or HS2 Ltd will end up compensating LNWT which means the treasury is ultimately footing the bill. How silly.

15 minute Delay Repay is a DfT policy for all new franchises from what I hear. Sensible in my opinion; and keeps the franchisee on their toes with a financial stick to make sure that 15 minute delays don't happen.

The TOC receives (Schedule 8 ) money from NR regardless of whether they need to pass it on. This means that it's the DfT's premium line that would be affected by the introduction of 15 minute delay repay, not NR's bottom line.

Can't believe that a franchise is actually taking up the nutty D-Stock idea. I have a soft spot for the Marston Vale Line - I guess its one of those situations where it might not be particularly good, but at least its going to be interesting.

It's the modern equivalent of the Pacer; low-cost to run on lines with poor commercial opportunities. I think you said several times that the Pacers kept many lines going when they otherwise would have been closed.

[Ameecher]

Can't believe that a franchise is actually taking up the nutty D-Stock idea. I have a soft spot for the Marston Vale Line - I guess its one of those situations where it might not be particularly good, but at least its going to be interesting.

It's the modern equivalent of the Pacer; low-cost to run on lines with poor commercial opportunities. I think you said several times that the Pacers kept many lines going when they otherwise would have been closed.

In a time of dire lack of funding, yes. Today though it's purely because of a cock up in DDA issues and the fact that the Bedford - Bletchley is a diesel island in the middle of an entirely electrified section of the franchise. If it was electrified you can bet your bottom dollar they would be trundling a 319 up and down all day rather than having the logistical nightmare of ECSing a 150 down from Tyseley every Sunday.
It's just a cock up related to failure to deliver rolling electrification that releases diesel fleets to where they are needed and this is the bodge that has resulted, just like the 769s (319s with a diesel engine bolted to the underframe).

[Kevo00]

It's the modern equivalent of the Pacer; low-cost to run on lines with poor commercial opportunities. I think you said several times that the Pacers kept many lines going when they otherwise would have been closed.

Yes, but Pacers were at least new stock when they arrived, and felt like an improvement over heritage DMUs.

It's hard to see how a life expired train shell, considerably heavier than a pacer or probably even a 150, can really be the cheapest long term option.

[Gwyd]

I've heard new stock is cheap at the moment, and older stuff needs to comply with new TSI PRM regulations in a few years... I'd definitely be on the phone to Bombardier, CAF or Hatachi. The D-stock seems like it's more likely to be a liability.

[Ameecher]

I've heard new stock is cheap at the moment, and older stuff needs to comply with new TSI PRM regulations in a few years... I'd definitely be on the phone to Bombardier, CAF or Hatachi. The D-stock seems like it's more likely to be a liability.

Part of the reason for D Stock is the fact that all of the manufacturers you mention have full order books right up to the time that the cut off comes in so everyone is having to look for other options.

[Redirect Left]

It's hard to see how a life expired train shell, considerably heavier than a pacer or probably even a 150, can really be the cheapest long term option.

I suspect the shells will be far more beaten than Pacers too, with their many years of tube under their roof.

Amazingly enough, it looks like a decent unit, although they clearly don't posess a train wash capable of doing roofs - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 410129.jpg

They were originally slated to replace the Pacers. Although the operators that run them seem to have gone stone cold on the idea (and always were). I suspect a lot of the completed units will end up being used abroad, and not here in the UK.

[YNM]

Yes, but Pacers were at least new stock when they arrived, and felt like an improvement over heritage DMUs.

It's hard to see how a life expired train shell, considerably heavier than a pacer or probably even a 150, can really be the cheapest long term option.

They're a bit wider ?

Though I can see the doors are going to be a bad farce.

[JamieLei]

They were originally slated to replace the Pacers. Although the operators that run them seem to have gone stone cold on the idea (and always were). I suspect a lot of the completed units will end up being used abroad, and not here in the UK.

The Northern Invitation to Tender specifically barred bidders from the D Train, I suspect because of the fact they're not 'new' trains, and government wanted to be seen investing in the north.

I'm actually very optimistic about the D trains. The interior looks surprisingly good, although there's no mistaking that this was once the District line!
Suits London Northwestern's colours I suppose.

[supermop]

They were originally slated to replace the Pacers. Although the operators that run them seem to have gone stone cold on the idea (and always were). I suspect a lot of the completed units will end up being used abroad, and not here in the UK.

The Northern Invitation to Tender specifically barred bidders from the D Train, I suspect because of the fact they're not 'new' trains, and government wanted to be seen investing in the north.

I'm actually very optimistic about the D trains. The interior looks surprisingly good, although there's no mistaking that this was once the District line!
Suits London Northwestern's colours I suppose.

Count me impressed on the interior and exterior work, they certainly seem to have tried. Still not sure where I fall on the concept - I generally like the idea of making use of something if you can, but on the other hand I am a strong believer in investing in new equipment to the greatest extent possible. If the british rolling stock industry is at capacity this may be the best option I guess (time to spool up more capacity is probably too great).

Also, metro trains can be quite sturdy beasts, long outlasting their looks or even configuration style. We have stock on 8th Avenue here that is closing in on 60 years old, in mixed traffic with stock that rolled out of the plant a few weeks ago. The old stuff is ugly, but in too good of condition reef. It looks like these D train sets were very sound structurally, and the rebuilding has them looking nice and fresh! I'm impressed that aluminum shells have that much life in them (as opposed to stainless).