World's first hydrogen train to go into service in Germany next year

[Drury]

https://www.thelocal.de/20160920/first- ... -tradeshow

The hydrogen, or hydrail, train is set to run on the Buxtehude-Bremervörde-Bremerhaven-Cuxhaven line in Lower Saxony starting in December 2017, Die Welt reported on Tuesday.

The hydrogen train operates using a hydrogen fuel tank, stored on the roof of the train, that in turn powers a fuel cell to produce electrical energy. This technology provides a new environmentally friendly alternative to the diesel trains that are still used across much of Germany.

With a full tank, the new locomotive will be able to travel 600 to 800 kilometers.

Because of its much larger fuel capacity, the train does not have to confront the same problems that hydro-cars face with refueling. Another advantage is its quietness: even at its top speed of 140 km/h, the only noise is that produced by the motion of the wheels and air resistance.

It's not mentioned in the article, but hydrogen doesn't occur naturally and most of it is obtained from methane in natural gas. In effect, it's used mostly as energy storage, and its benefits to the environment are up to debate.

The vehicle itself uses fuel cells to bind oxygen to hydrogen to create the dreaded dihydrogen monoxide and electricity.

[Chris]

Yet still much cleaner than diesel

[luxtram]

Yet still much cleaner than diesel

Is it cleaner or more efficient than trains with electric engines?

[EXTspotter]

Depends how you're generating the electricity, but I doubt it...

[Nawdic]

Considering the only real "emissions" you get out of a Hydrogen powered vehicle is water vapour, somehow I think it is cleaner than diesel or electric power........

Bearing in mind, it would be nice to know how hydrogen is made in the first place, if any emissions come from the generation process.

[luxtram]

Considering the only real "emissions" you get out of a Hydrogen powered vehicle is water vapour, somehow I think it is cleaner than diesel or electric power........

Lets assume that energy for both trains comes from renewable sources. If we can consume less energy then more can be done with only renewable energy sources.

Is it more efficient to transport the energy over power lines or by hydrogen transport?

Nonetheless, it would be nice to see this train replacing diesels in the game.

[Drury]

As I said, to get hydrogen you need methane from natural gas, and you have to heat it up to like 1000C to get CO and H2. Due to how many variables are involved, one can only guess whether it's really worth, but in the end you still have to mine fossil fuels and release CO into the atmosphere which is not a necessity with pure electric.

It's also possible to get H2 from electrolysis of water but that's way more expensive and pretty much guaranteed to be less energy-efficient than pure electric.

With how awesome batteries are getting nowadays, I could see that being a better option.

[2Ray]

The "Die Welt" article states using hydrogen that incurs as a waste product at chemical plants which elsewise would be burnt.

Den dafür benötigten Wasserstoff bezieht Alstom aus Chemieanlagen, in denen das Element als Abfallprodukt bei der Herstellung anderer Produkte anfällt. Bisher wird der so entstehende Wasserstoff häufig einfach verbrannt.

But another thing is the production of the batteries which uses rare earth elements. Although this might be a bigger point with road vehicles which are produced in much larger quantities.

[Drury]

But another thing is the production of the batteries which uses rare earth elements. Although this might be a bigger point with road vehicles which are produced in much larger quantities.

Fuel cells are the same in that regard.