Japanese Railways Are Building Special Crossings For Turtles

Take a break from playing the game and chat here about real-world transportation issues!

Moderator: General Forums Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Pyoro
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2558
Joined: 17 Oct 2008 12:17
Location: Virgo Supercluster

Re: Japanese Railways Are Building Special Crossings For Turtles

Post by Pyoro »

Well, makes sense?

Germany has those for frogs, on roads. And recently they've started building wildlife bridges on motorways:
Image
I sometimes wonder how well those work, but the idea seems good enough ^^;

Oh, and of course those fish stair things ...
Image
I'm even more skeptical on how well those work, but ... they're pretty common.
User avatar
Kevo00
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 5646
Joined: 07 Feb 2004 01:51
Location: East Coast MainLine

Re: Japanese Railways Are Building Special Crossings For Turtles

Post by Kevo00 »

The wildlife bridge looks very cool. Of course, the question is whether the wildlife knows to use the bridge!
User avatar
Dave
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 17243
Joined: 26 Dec 2005 20:19
Location: North London

Re: Japanese Railways Are Building Special Crossings For Turtles

Post by Dave »

Sadly I think we as humans rely on the concept of natural selection...! After seeing a few deer keep using the road, the other deer will learn that the nice grassy route will get them to the same place!

The fish staircase is very clever - the idea being that fish can climb the "hill" in (lo and behold...!) steps. A more basic version of this of course is the salmon run which carves out a bit of a waterfall to give them an easier path up!

EDIT: Pretty sure in Britain we are obliged to build options for wildlife where we're building roads in protected habitats. We have to provide little tunnels under roads!
Official TT-Dave Fan Club

Dave's Screenshot Thread! - Albion: A fictional Britain
Flickr


Why be a song when you can be a symphony? r is a...
User avatar
Redirect Left
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 7241
Joined: 22 Jan 2005 19:31
Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire

Re: Japanese Railways Are Building Special Crossings For Turtles

Post by Redirect Left »

There are numerous examples of 'fish ladders' (probably a more technical term somewhere) in quite a few places in the UK. I find they're a nice idea, but like some others, I do wondor if the wildlife in question actually understand what is going on and what they're for.

I've personally not seen any wildlife crossings (other than the fish ladders) in Yorkshire where I am. Plenty of motorways that span through countryside, but not seen any crossings for the lovely little animals.

At the bottom of where I used to live was a river (the River Holme), and running along was a road, frogs used to cross in large numbers during spring. It was a frankly horrific real-life game of frogger. I do wonder how many little frogs need to be squashed before one of them sees them and go "Hmm, i'll stick to this side of the road!", and informs everyone to quit the game and stay where they are.
Image
Need some good tested AI? - Unofficial AI Tester, list of good stuff & thread is here.
User avatar
JamieLei
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 7432
Joined: 10 Jan 2007 18:42
Location: Stratford, London

Re: Japanese Railways Are Building Special Crossings For Turtles

Post by JamieLei »

Redirect Left wrote:At the bottom of where I used to live was a river (the River Holme), and running along was a road, frogs used to cross in large numbers during spring. It was a frankly horrific real-life game of frogger. I do wonder how many little frogs need to be squashed before one of them sees them and go "Hmm, i'll stick to this side of the road!", and informs everyone to quit the game and stay where they are.
Eeeeek!
Any opinions expressed are purely mine and not that of any employer, past or present.
User avatar
Pyoro
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2558
Joined: 17 Oct 2008 12:17
Location: Virgo Supercluster

Re: Japanese Railways Are Building Special Crossings For Turtles

Post by Pyoro »

Yeah, we have that in a few places here, too. Sometimes there are volunteers with buckets who pick them up and carry them to the other side, or sort of mini-fences and frog-tunnels. But obviously not everywhere, and you aren't allowed to evade small animals*, so... ^^;

*well, you are allowed to, of course, but if something happens because you abruptly break or go into another traffic lane or something it's your fault. Frosh lives don't count for much in court, apparently ;)


As for wildlife crossings - I think they are a relatively new invention and they aren't a regular thing in Germany either. I'm relatively positive that they work to some extend, as they come with large fenced-off areas - so basically the wildlife in question has no choice, if it wants to migrate ;) But on, say, the most common Autobahn route I take - about 200km relatively straight east-west - there's I think precisely 1 of those. And then some tunnels and bridges where perhaps some wildlife can cross coincidentally, if they live in those "mountains". But then nothing for the next 160km or so ... must be a huge detour for some random deers who just wanted to cross a street ;)
User avatar
siu238X
Transport Coordinator
Transport Coordinator
Posts: 333
Joined: 13 Sep 2004 18:54
Location: Hong Kong, China

Re: Japanese Railways Are Building Special Crossings For Turtles

Post by siu238X »

For those being skeptical about animals comprehending and utilising man-made structures, I'd like to share this from the Internet:



Also a collection from Google


I have confidence that wild animals adapt even better.
Image
Image
User avatar
Dave
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 17243
Joined: 26 Dec 2005 20:19
Location: North London

Re: Japanese Railways Are Building Special Crossings For Turtles

Post by Dave »

They definitely do - just a matter of adjustment. Once they realise the man made structure is easier than the natural option, they'll use it.
Official TT-Dave Fan Club

Dave's Screenshot Thread! - Albion: A fictional Britain
Flickr


Why be a song when you can be a symphony? r is a...
User avatar
Pyoro
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2558
Joined: 17 Oct 2008 12:17
Location: Virgo Supercluster

Re: Japanese Railways Are Building Special Crossings For Turtles

Post by Pyoro »

It's not like animals generally have the capability to distinguish between what's man-made and what's natural, anyway. Water is water to a fish. It's not the fact that those stairs are artificial that makes me skeptical, it's the way they are build; including their incredible narrowness. It seems to me that fish almost need some kind of foresight (or a lot of luck...) to go precisely that way, and that's what makes me skeptical. ^^

But I'm sure they did video-observations and counted fish and whatnot and so they should know that those things work (or not). Still, I guess I'm not the most trusting person ;)
User avatar
Dave
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 17243
Joined: 26 Dec 2005 20:19
Location: North London

Re: Japanese Railways Are Building Special Crossings For Turtles

Post by Dave »

Well, like kamnet said, they've been used in France since the 17th century. The idea was patented in 1837... So someone must see the value in it!

At the very least, the ladder types breaks up the height a fish has to jump, increasing the number of fish that will make it upstream, increasing the number of fish that can be caught.

As with evolution, natural selection and animal behaviour in general, it probably is a lot down to luck! And probably does take time to "bed in"

On a base level...

1 fish might use it first time, go upstream, get fat and return home.
Next year a couple of other fish note this fish has done alright and try and follow it...
And so on.

I'm not an expert in fish ladder building, but I imagine the method is to make it as realistic as possible.
Official TT-Dave Fan Club

Dave's Screenshot Thread! - Albion: A fictional Britain
Flickr


Why be a song when you can be a symphony? r is a...
Post Reply

Return to “Real-World Transport Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests