Random Transport Chatter

Take a break from playing the game and chat here about real-world transportation issues!
User avatar
Redirect Left
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 6578
Joined: 22 Jan 2005 19:31
Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire

Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Redirect Left » 17 Aug 2019 01:20

Geo Ghost wrote:
16 Aug 2019 20:03
Those who were there... will remember. The mighty battle of the Fry.
I sometimes wonder if he is still amongst us, with an alternative account, watching our occasional references to them :p

Also, by the end of the year, it seems the word 'Virgin' will have been removed from our rail network, after a long long time of it bein there...
Image
Worst Behaved IRC Member of 2008, 2009 & 2010 - Go Me!

User avatar
Geo Ghost
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6278
Joined: 25 Oct 2004 10:06
Location: Hertfordshire
Contact:

Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Geo Ghost » 17 Aug 2019 08:18

Redirect Left wrote:
17 Aug 2019 01:20
I sometimes wonder if he is still amongst us, with an alternative account, watching our occasional references to them :p
I bet it was Worley all along, trolling us all.

User avatar
Dave
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 17204
Joined: 26 Dec 2005 20:19
Location: Harringay, North London
Contact:

Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Dave » 18 Aug 2019 16:47

I’m not that clever!

Sad to see Virgin disappear, and worried about First...
Official TT-Dave Fan Club

Dave's Screenshot Thread! - Albion: A fictional Britain
Flickr


Why be a song when you can be a symphony? r is a...

User avatar
Redirect Left
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 6578
Joined: 22 Jan 2005 19:31
Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire

Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Redirect Left » 18 Aug 2019 17:29

Dave wrote:
18 Aug 2019 16:47
Sad to see Virgin disappear, and worried about First...
Oh, what's going on with First?
Image
Worst Behaved IRC Member of 2008, 2009 & 2010 - Go Me!

User avatar
Geo Ghost
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6278
Joined: 25 Oct 2004 10:06
Location: Hertfordshire
Contact:

Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Geo Ghost » 18 Aug 2019 18:08

Dave wrote:
18 Aug 2019 16:47
I’m not that clever!

Sad to see Virgin disappear, and worried about First...
Apart from Class 800 seating... I can't say anything bad about First.
They were always fantastic when I worked for them and although their reputation was pretty low, they were steadily getting better and always trying :)


Here's one for you railwaymen here... something I have often pondered.
Line speeds.

Your typical mainline consists of 2 fasts and 2 slows. Either it be in a US/UF/DF/DS formation or US/DS/UF/DF formation.
Most of the time, a fast line will be upwards in the region of 125mph, and slow lines are more often than not 75mph max. Sometimes 80mph in a couple of areas.

Now.. why is that. Why are slow lines so... 'slow' in comparison. This has puzzled me more and more in locations where the geometry is the same as fast lines, track infrastructure is the same too. 3 aspect signalling I could consider, but there's locations where there are 90mph line speeds on 3 aspect signals and just 2 lines.
I wondered, "Maybe the slow lines have to be a percentage under the fast?" But then there are areas of line where the slows reach 80mph, the fasts still remain at 110-125mph. And of course places where the slow line speed remains at 75 whilst the fast drops to 100. So it can't be that either.

So gentlemen, and Dave, I ask upon you if anyone has any idea to this as it is really bugging me at the moment! Obviously you wouldn't expect slow and fast lines to be the same speed. But it's so strange when slows have some kind of a limit of about 75 when running next to a 125 line, but then branch off onto another route and suddenly raise to 90 :P

These are the thoughts that pester me on breaks and also when stuck at reds! :mrgreen:

User avatar
Dave
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 17204
Joined: 26 Dec 2005 20:19
Location: Harringay, North London
Contact:

Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Dave » 18 Aug 2019 21:57

I’m guessing, but maintenance would be my first thought.
Official TT-Dave Fan Club

Dave's Screenshot Thread! - Albion: A fictional Britain
Flickr


Why be a song when you can be a symphony? r is a...

Diesel Power
Traffic Manager
Traffic Manager
Posts: 156
Joined: 18 Jun 2016 19:05

Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Diesel Power » 23 Aug 2019 22:08

How about this one:
I've noticed on some low speed EMUs that there's a spot light shining up at the pantograph. Why is it there? The driver can't see it unless there is a camera there too.
Do they really become detatched from the wire that often as to need a light?

User avatar
Redirect Left
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 6578
Joined: 22 Jan 2005 19:31
Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire

Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Redirect Left » 23 Aug 2019 23:07

Diesel Power wrote:
23 Aug 2019 22:08
How about this one:
I've noticed on some low speed EMUs that there's a spot light shining up at the pantograph. Why is it there? The driver can't see it unless there is a camera there too.
Do they really become detatched from the wire that often as to need a light?
I've noticed this myself down south, I am guessing it is the 700 or 707s that have them. I don't know exactly why, might even be something as basic an indcator the pantograph is receiving power through that method of traction. Probably something more in depth.
Image
Worst Behaved IRC Member of 2008, 2009 & 2010 - Go Me!

User avatar
Geo Ghost
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6278
Joined: 25 Oct 2004 10:06
Location: Hertfordshire
Contact:

Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Geo Ghost » 23 Aug 2019 23:37

Diesel Power wrote:
23 Aug 2019 22:08
How about this one:
I've noticed on some low speed EMUs that there's a spot light shining up at the pantograph. Why is it there? The driver can't see it unless there is a camera there too.
Do they really become detatched from the wire that often as to need a light?
Redirect Left wrote:
23 Aug 2019 23:07
I've noticed this myself down south, I am guessing it is the 700 or 707s that have them. I don't know exactly why, might even be something as basic an indcator the pantograph is receiving power through that method of traction. Probably something more in depth.
We see EVERYTHING :twisted: :twisted:

In seriousness though. It's a pan inspection light and camera. They indeed have a camera on the roof and this is for inspection encase of suspected damage, or simply CCTV footage should there be a dewirement or ADD* activation.
However it is also useful for ensuring the pantograph has fully lowered or raised without having to leave the confines of the cab :) You'll find the majority of modern AC stock has this feature. It's nothing fancy like showing when there's power. It's just simply for the roof mounted camera. on 717s it even works on DC mode which is quite interesting in the tunnels! :P
As part of train preparation too we' have to check the pantograph to makes sure nothing is untoward or damaged. Having the light makes it so much easier at night :)
Although overheads don't come down very often indeed, it's a useful bit of equipment should there be a problem.

* ADD - Automatic Dropping Device.
Simple but very crucial bit of equipment on the majority of trains. Should the pantograph become either damaged or raises too high, the ADD with activate and drop that pan on the train immediately (or all pans on more modern traction) whilst alerting the driver. This prevents extended damage to overhead light equipment and the train itself. Video of a pan strike some years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YqLB-TMvhg

Without it, a train could plow along with a damaged pan taking the overheads with it until brought to a stand. Sadly not all trains have it, so you have to go by any unusual indications on older trains and stop immediately if in doubt.
That happened many years ago on the midland route actually. Early hours of the morning, 319 had a damaged pan and was cruising along but damaging the overheads as it went. Sadly at first it was unnoticed till the next train went past and hit the damaged section ripping the entire netting down inside a station. The CCTV footage was quite something - like a massive firework and electrical explosion. You know something is bad when the platform staff run down and immediately hold the hands to their head in shock of it all.


Any more traction related questions? :D

User avatar
Redirect Left
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 6578
Joined: 22 Jan 2005 19:31
Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire

Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Redirect Left » 23 Aug 2019 23:55

I love how after the train passes, two staff passing by appear totally oblivious to the incident despite being a few meters away :lol:
Geo Ghost wrote:
23 Aug 2019 23:37
Any more traction related questions? :D
I'll get back to you on that :p
Image
Worst Behaved IRC Member of 2008, 2009 & 2010 - Go Me!

Diesel Power
Traffic Manager
Traffic Manager
Posts: 156
Joined: 18 Jun 2016 19:05

Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Diesel Power » 24 Aug 2019 00:01

Thanks for the detailed explanation! I figured it was somthing like that. The ones I've seen it on also run on a 3rd rail into London. I sometimes watch them whilst at a delivery in my truck in west London coming to a stop, lowering the pantagraph then carrying on. Took my a while to fugure out they were on a 3rd rail as well!

User avatar
Ameecher
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 11909
Joined: 12 Aug 2006 15:39
Location: MK UK
Contact:

Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Ameecher » 24 Aug 2019 16:28

Geo Ghost wrote:
Dave wrote:
18 Aug 2019 16:47
I’m not that clever!

Sad to see Virgin disappear, and worried about First...
Apart from Class 800 seating... I can't say anything bad about First.
They were always fantastic when I worked for them and although their reputation was pretty low, they were steadily getting better and always trying :)


Here's one for you railwaymen here... something I have often pondered.
Line speeds.

Your typical mainline consists of 2 fasts and 2 slows. Either it be in a US/UF/DF/DS formation or US/DS/UF/DF formation.
Most of the time, a fast line will be upwards in the region of 125mph, and slow lines are more often than not 75mph max. Sometimes 80mph in a couple of areas.

Now.. why is that. Why are slow lines so... 'slow' in comparison. This has puzzled me more and more in locations where the geometry is the same as fast lines, track infrastructure is the same too. 3 aspect signalling I could consider, but there's locations where there are 90mph line speeds on 3 aspect signals and just 2 lines.
I wondered, "Maybe the slow lines have to be a percentage under the fast?" But then there are areas of line where the slows reach 80mph, the fasts still remain at 110-125mph. And of course places where the slow line speed remains at 75 whilst the fast drops to 100. So it can't be that either.

So gentlemen, and Dave, I ask upon you if anyone has any idea to this as it is really bugging me at the moment! Obviously you wouldn't expect slow and fast lines to be the same speed. But it's so strange when slows have some kind of a limit of about 75 when running next to a 125 line, but then branch off onto another route and suddenly raise to 90 Image

These are the thoughts that pester me on breaks and also when stuck at reds! :mrgreen:
Track category for one and also geometry of the track. Then signalling. For 4 track lines signals have to be at the same location. On the WCML south end, the signals are all 4 aspect but spaced for 125mph. This means that they are "too far apart" for the slows but 100mph is achieved in many places but headway takes a hit.
On the ECML, they maintain the headway on the slows by putting in 3 aspect signalling on the slows, the result is a cap on top speed.
Image

User avatar
Pilot
General Forums Moderator
General Forums Moderator
Posts: 7516
Joined: 04 Aug 2010 15:48
Location: Manchester

Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Pilot » 27 Aug 2019 07:40

Got experience Transpennine's new Class 68+Mk5A sets that entered service on Saturday, on Saturday.

Seem nice enough trains, although, as with other modern CAF stuff in the UK, the ride is extremely rough. Seats are DfT standard spec, despite TPE having an option - I imagine this was the cheapest option rather than any other reason. The passenger atmosphere is generally better thanks to the sliding doors at carriage ends, and they are a huge step up compared to a 185, especially in terms of passenger capacity. With 3 major events (York Races, Leeds Festival, Manchester Pride) and 2 major football matches across their route, you'd have expected it to be full and standing, however, I was able to get a table during all four journey's that I made on the set on Saturday, and everyone else appeared to be sat too. Managed a quick look into first too, as well as the catering area, and they appear to have a proper buffet kitchen facility for First Class passengers, so hopefully TPE are planning a massive step up of their offering for 1st Class passengers too.

The 68s have an excellent rate of acceleration too, and you can feel the full force of that loco pushing on the rear, although not in a bad way.

----

Additionally, got to experience an Emergency Stop on a 142 last night! Bloody hell the brakes on them are good, must have been doing 60mph and seemed to stop within about a length and a quarter of the 142. Unfortunately a woman was feeling rather upset on the Leeds-bound Platform at Littleborough, and the police requested all trains in the area to stop. We were held just beyond the incident, fortunately in the Manchester-bound platform and the guard opened his local door so we could stretch our legs. After about 30 mins, the Police were able to grab her, and we were underway about 5 minutes later once they handed the line back.

User avatar
YNM
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 3544
Joined: 22 Mar 2012 11:10
Location: West Java

Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by YNM » 27 Aug 2019 11:53

Ameecher wrote:
24 Aug 2019 16:28
Track category for one and also geometry of the track. Then signalling. For 4 track lines signals have to be at the same location. On the WCML south end, the signals are all 4 aspect but spaced for 125mph. This means that they are "too far apart" for the slows but 100mph is achieved in many places but headway takes a hit.
On the ECML, they maintain the headway on the slows by putting in 3 aspect signalling on the slows, the result is a cap on top speed.
Would the introduction of ETCS L2 helps this massively ? I hope they can be put in action soon then.
YNM = yoursNotMine - Don't get it ?
「ヨーッスノットマイン」も合うでしょう。

User avatar
Geo Ghost
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6278
Joined: 25 Oct 2004 10:06
Location: Hertfordshire
Contact:

Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Geo Ghost » 27 Aug 2019 11:55

YNM wrote:
27 Aug 2019 11:53
Ameecher wrote:
24 Aug 2019 16:28
Track category for one and also geometry of the track. Then signalling. For 4 track lines signals have to be at the same location. On the WCML south end, the signals are all 4 aspect but spaced for 125mph. This means that they are "too far apart" for the slows but 100mph is achieved in many places but headway takes a hit.
On the ECML, they maintain the headway on the slows by putting in 3 aspect signalling on the slows, the result is a cap on top speed.
Would the introduction of ETCS L2 helps this massively ? I hope they can be put in action soon then.
Interesting thought with that actually. I suppose theoretically yes! Though in reality I'd hazard a guess not so.
What's weird is the Cambridge Branch runs up to 90mph for the majority of the route, and is 3-aspect signalling the whole way :P
But.. the signals are a lot more spaced out. Doesn't help though bombing along at 90, then rounding a corner to a single yellow. Certainly gets the brakes hot!

User avatar
Ameecher
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 11909
Joined: 12 Aug 2006 15:39
Location: MK UK
Contact:

Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Ameecher » 05 Sep 2019 21:28

YNM wrote:
27 Aug 2019 11:53
Ameecher wrote:
24 Aug 2019 16:28
Track category for one and also geometry of the track. Then signalling. For 4 track lines signals have to be at the same location. On the WCML south end, the signals are all 4 aspect but spaced for 125mph. This means that they are "too far apart" for the slows but 100mph is achieved in many places but headway takes a hit.
On the ECML, they maintain the headway on the slows by putting in 3 aspect signalling on the slows, the result is a cap on top speed.
Would the introduction of ETCS L2 helps this massively ? I hope they can be put in action soon then.
In theory yes, if your balisses are far enough apart then it is the track geometry that dictates it. I don't think there is any intention of changing the linespeeds after introduction of ETCS on the ECML though but I'm not too familiar with the scheme. Certainly seen some really impressive stuff about what it will do for consistency and therefore performance, especially in low visibility.
Image

User avatar
Redirect Left
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 6578
Joined: 22 Jan 2005 19:31
Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire

Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Redirect Left » 05 Sep 2019 22:53

Dave wrote:
12 Oct 2014 11:44
Can't help traffic. Buses bunch up and I imagine trams would too.
Ah the legendary double bus. You wait for one for 25 minutes, then two come at once.

always and without fail
Image
Worst Behaved IRC Member of 2008, 2009 & 2010 - Go Me!

User avatar
Geo Ghost
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6278
Joined: 25 Oct 2004 10:06
Location: Hertfordshire
Contact:

Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Geo Ghost » 06 Sep 2019 10:59

Redirect Left wrote:
05 Sep 2019 22:53
Dave wrote:
12 Oct 2014 11:44
Can't help traffic. Buses bunch up and I imagine trams would too.
Ah the legendary double bus. You wait for one for 25 minutes, then two come at once.

always and without fail
Only two? My record was four! :mrgreen:

User avatar
Redirect Left
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 6578
Joined: 22 Jan 2005 19:31
Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire

Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Redirect Left » 06 Sep 2019 11:49

Geo Ghost wrote:
06 Sep 2019 10:59
Redirect Left wrote:
05 Sep 2019 22:53
Ah the legendary double bus. You wait for one for 25 minutes, then two come at once.

always and without fail
Only two? My record was four! :mrgreen:
four would be quite the achievement, given my buses I use most are once every 30 minutes!
Image
Worst Behaved IRC Member of 2008, 2009 & 2010 - Go Me!

User avatar
Dave
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 17204
Joined: 26 Dec 2005 20:19
Location: Harringay, North London
Contact:

Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Dave » 08 Sep 2019 22:03

Redirect Left wrote:
05 Sep 2019 22:53
Dave wrote:
12 Oct 2014 11:44
Can't help traffic. Buses bunch up and I imagine trams would too.
Ah the legendary double bus. You wait for one for 25 minutes, then two come at once.

always and without fail
Was scratching my head as to where I’d written this - then I saw the date!

My record is also four W7s, but they’re the main route to the tube from Muswell Hill - there are 36 buses between 0700 and 0900 on weekdays. One more than every 3.5 minutes - one of London’s most intense single routes (other routes have higher frequency through a combination of routes - as an example using the W7, Muswell Hill Broadway to the bottom of Muswell Hill itself has 25 buses between 0800-0900 thanks to 7bph 144. From Stroud Green down the final stretch to Finsbury Park the 6bph 210 means 24 buses)

There are a few similar in south London but I used to get the w7 back in the day...
Official TT-Dave Fan Club

Dave's Screenshot Thread! - Albion: A fictional Britain
Flickr


Why be a song when you can be a symphony? r is a...

Post Reply

Return to “Real-World Transport Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest