Random Transport Chatter

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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Redirect Left » 25 Oct 2018 21:41

Originally that tram-train stuff was meant to be a trial on the Penistone Line, i'm not sure if it was just up to Barnsley or the entire route, but it's a shame that didn't materialise and it was switched to Rotherham.
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by 61653 » 26 Oct 2018 18:14

Redirect Left wrote:Originally that tram-train stuff was meant to be a trial on the Penistone Line, i'm not sure if it was just up to Barnsley or the entire route, but it's a shame that didn't materialise and it was switched to Rotherham.
When it was proposed for the Penistone line, the plan was for bi-mode/electro-diesel tram-trains which were decided to be too complicated for the trial. The distance away from the wires would also be rather long, and an awful lot of stations would need a lower section of platform.

TBH it was a ridiculous idea, imagine how it'd be for football crowds (if Barnsley or one of the Sheffields drew Huddersfield in the cup for example), or indeed in the peaks every day. As a trial, Rotherham was much more manageable (in theory) as it's shorter, all electric, and entirely in Travel South Yorkshire territory.

It'd be nice for the Penistone line to gain another loop and allow a more frequent service, or even allow some semi-fast services providing that signalling was designed to allow such.
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Redirect Left » 26 Oct 2018 18:27

61653 wrote: It'd be nice for the Penistone line to gain another loop and allow a more frequent service, or even allow some semi-fast services providing that signalling was designed to allow such.
Yes, however I don't see it happening anytime within my own lifetime, sadly enough. Which is bad, as i'm only 29. Would be nice to see an extra loop, and another train added to make 2 per hour per direction, perhaps one of them being an express and stopping at the larger stations only, skipping out the ones no one uses. That line has 6 of the 10 least used stations in West Yorkshire, which are (in ascending order of usage) Stocksmoor, Berry Brow, Brockholes, Lockwood, Honley & Shepley. (The ones that made the cut, but aren't on Penistone Line are in ascending order, Pontefract Baghill, Ravensthorpe, Pontefract Tanshelf & Streethouse) so perhaps an express can stop at just stop at Huddersfield, Denby Dale OR Penistone (as DD & Penistone have ample bus services outside them to the other missed places) Barnsley, Meadowhall & Sheffield. Would certainly make the footy traffic a bit easier. There are a surprising number of Sheffield Wednesday / Sheffield United that come from Huddersfield (i know, treachery at its greatest). I used to live at Brockholes, so I have a lot of experience going both ways on the Penistone Line, if its not peak time, beautiful lovely little run around. On peak and weekends? Absolutely chaos of the finest level of mayhem.

I personally feel there is more chance of Huddersfield winning the premier league this season, than anything being done to ease the Penistone Line, or improve services. I think at some point in the next 18 month, Northern are going to slowly port Sprinters over to it, possibly the merged to make a 3 carriage one. So hopefully that happens.
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by 61653 » 27 Oct 2018 10:42

Of those Penistone line stations, some have potential for growth if a second service per hour was added. Lockwood is a bit near to Huddersfield, Berry Brow could do well but does have decent buses. Honley gets a lot of school traffic and could be used as a railhead for Holmfirth; there's potential for a bigger car park now that Yorkshire Tiger are only using the former K-line bus depot for storage. Brockholes and Stocksmoor are probably at their limit, Shepley could do better with a more frequent service particularly in the evenings when the buses don't run. Denby Dale just had the bus services messed around by Yorkshire Tiger so the railway could capitalise. All or most buses now take way longer by detouring round Clayton West and Highburton, and only run hourly after 6pm. Better revenue protection and monitoring is needed too, as there's a lot of ticketless travel and many regulars use MCards which don't count towards station usage figures.
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Redirect Left » 27 Oct 2018 11:58

61653 wrote:Of those Penistone line stations, some have potential for growth if a second service per hour was added. Lockwood is a bit near to Huddersfield, Berry Brow could do well but does have decent buses. Honley gets a lot of school traffic and could be used as a railhead for Holmfirth; there's potential for a bigger car park now that Yorkshire Tiger are only using the former K-line bus depot for storage. Brockholes and Stocksmoor are probably at their limit, Shepley could do better with a more frequent service particularly in the evenings when the buses don't run. Denby Dale just had the bus services messed around by Yorkshire Tiger so the railway could capitalise. All or most buses now take way longer by detouring round Clayton West and Highburton, and only run hourly after 6pm. Better revenue protection and monitoring is needed too, as there's a lot of ticketless travel and many regulars use MCards which don't count towards station usage figures.
I'm surprised Yorkshire Tiger & Northern are not doing more to capitalise on the rail travel, considering Yorkshire Tigers parent company is Arriva, and Northern trains are operated by... Arriva. (I'm still irritated Arriva got Northern, given the huge monopoly they now have throughout some parts of the north).

Brockholes would be a better railhead into Holmfirth, as its nearer. It's also the point where the old branch line branched and went through Thongsbridge down to Holmfirth. Brockholes probably would get more users if there were more frequent buses up to the top of the village, as its a bit of a long trek up a steep incline to get to the station, I used to do it daily. Brockholes is one of the nicer stations, too. Honley is infrequently plain dangerous due to th huge school traffic but the very thing platforms. I'm hoping now Yorkshire Tiger are partially abandoning Honley Depot, they might expand the station back onto where the depot is. Northern did at one point pledge to install ticket machines on all these little stations on the Penistone Line, I'm not sure if they meant full machines, or permit to travel machines. Either way, to my knowledge, this hasn't happened at all, even the larger ones such as Penistone & Chapeltown. That entire corridor between West & South Yorkshire is very poorly connected, especially after 18:30, when the buses often stop entirely.
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Kevo00 » 28 Oct 2018 18:33

Went for a trip on the TramTrain between Parkgate and Tinsley/Meadowhall - not bad for £3 return! Hard to see quite what took so long to achieve, though integration between NR and Supertram is still clearly not flawless. To move between the systems at Tinsley the driver has to punch in an access code, and then there was a lengthy delay before the tram could move onto Supertram metals as a tram was coming round from Meadowhall. Rotherham Central station has been fitted with a low platform before the high platform, an arrangement reminiscent of Oslo where tram and metro share some tracks. Parkgate is a bit weird as its basically a siding off the main line, signed 'trams only', and finding the platform was a bit tricky. Can't help but feel that really a length of line going off through a housing estate or something was really needed to show that the idea works though...

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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Redirect Left » 28 Oct 2018 20:45

Kevo00 wrote:Rotherham Central station has been fitted with a low platform before the high platform
Was wondering how that'd end up. Was half expecting a situation akin to the the tube platforms that are quite badly height wise for tube trains, due to serving network rail trains.
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Kevo00 » 28 Oct 2018 21:13

Yeah. Rotherham looks a bit messy but it's alright.

More concerning realistically is whether many people will use the new service. It does shadow NR services to a large extent and basically connects a shopping centre to a shopping centre. Most passengers seemed to be spotters/photographers or wonks like me!

But then at least it's the first time you can get to Rotherham by tram since 1948.

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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Redirect Left » 29 Oct 2018 14:21

Lion Air Flight 610, operated by Indonesian operator Lion Air has sadly crashed off the coast of Indonesia near Jakarta, with the anticipated loss of all lives.
What is even more scary about this crash is, the plane was almost brand new, a Boeing 737 MAX 8, and had been delivered new on 13th August this year, with just 800 hours of flying time before its flight that ultimately led to disaster. The planes of these model have only been flying since 2017, so it will be very interesting to see the cause of this, and if any other of the Max customers will take them out of service until the specifics can be heard.

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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by 61653 » 30 Oct 2018 21:36

Redirect Left wrote:
61653 wrote:Of those Penistone line stations, some have potential for growth if a second service per hour was added. Lockwood is a bit near to Huddersfield, Berry Brow could do well but does have decent buses. Honley gets a lot of school traffic and could be used as a railhead for Holmfirth; there's potential for a bigger car park now that Yorkshire Tiger are only using the former K-line bus depot for storage. Brockholes and Stocksmoor are probably at their limit, Shepley could do better with a more frequent service particularly in the evenings when the buses don't run. Denby Dale just had the bus services messed around by Yorkshire Tiger so the railway could capitalise. All or most buses now take way longer by detouring round Clayton West and Highburton, and only run hourly after 6pm. Better revenue protection and monitoring is needed too, as there's a lot of ticketless travel and many regulars use MCards which don't count towards station usage figures.
I'm surprised Yorkshire Tiger & Northern are not doing more to capitalise on the rail travel, considering Yorkshire Tigers parent company is Arriva, and Northern trains are operated by... Arriva. (I'm still irritated Arriva got Northern, given the huge monopoly they now have throughout some parts of the north).

Brockholes would be a better railhead into Holmfirth, as its nearer. It's also the point where the old branch line branched and went through Thongsbridge down to Holmfirth. Brockholes probably would get more users if there were more frequent buses up to the top of the village, as its a bit of a long trek up a steep incline to get to the station, I used to do it daily. Brockholes is one of the nicer stations, too. Honley is infrequently plain dangerous due to th huge school traffic but the very thing platforms. I'm hoping now Yorkshire Tiger are partially abandoning Honley Depot, they might expand the station back onto where the depot is. Northern did at one point pledge to install ticket machines on all these little stations on the Penistone Line, I'm not sure if they meant full machines, or permit to travel machines. Either way, to my knowledge, this hasn't happened at all, even the larger ones such as Penistone & Chapeltown. That entire corridor between West & South Yorkshire is very poorly connected, especially after 18:30, when the buses often stop entirely.
Yorkshire Tiger are indeed Arriva owned, but seem to be largely autonomous from the parent company other than acceptance of Northern tickets on strike days.
I suggested Honley as a trailhead for Holmfirth because the former bus depot could be repurposed as a car park. Brockholes is up a steep hill and accessed from a fairly narrow residential street, having no car parking spaces. I do agree that Brockholes is a more pleasant station, and is indeed closer as the crow flies. However the fact that it was the junction station isn't really relevant unless the branch was to reopen... and sadly that ship sailed long ago.

The ticket machines being installed (Denby Dale and Shepley have them now, don't know about the others) are the same as all unstaffed Northern stations are getting: they are card only, so those wishing to pay cash must obtain a "promise to pay" notice from the machine. This is essentially a modern version of the old permit to travel system.
The Penistone Line Partnership:http://www.penline.co.uk/
Formerly known as 47434
Last train journey I could be bothered to look up the headcode for: 04/02/2016, Mirfield to Batley, 2J34 1459 Huddersfield to Leeds, Northern Rail 144015

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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Redirect Left » 30 Oct 2018 21:46

I only mentioned it was the splitting back through to Thongsbridge & Holmfirth to demonstrate it being nearer, as any train route into Holmfirth isn't going to happen at all.

I think the only thing Penistone Line has to look forward to is the Pacers being removed when new stock arrives for other routes, I don't think anything else will end up being done with it ;__;
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by YNM » 31 Oct 2018 02:45

Redirect Left wrote:What is even more scary about this crash is, the plane was almost brand new, a Boeing 737 MAX 8, and had been delivered new on 13th August this year, with just 800 hours of flying time before its flight that ultimately led to disaster.
Thanks for posting it here.

But yeah, the plane (PK-LQP) did have a problem before when flying from Denpasar (Bali) to Jakarta - Passengers had to disembark after the first boarding attempt as the engines seem to have trouble starting, then on the second attempt it did fly, but the aircon was not cooled and some said it was flying lower and slower than usual.

Rumours had it that the plane shown different values in the main display between left hand side and right hand side, also the flight before was flown entirely manual.

The unfortunate flight itself only attained 5000 ft height and starts going up and down between 3000 and 5000 ft before crashing.

Remembering how QZ 8501 went down through a loose soldering on the controls, and this plane also seem to suffer from bad electricals, I have a feeling that fully electrical/electronic systems might just have a harder time to truly be adjusted to the warmer and wetter climate we have here. (though then I could still blame the maintenance for not scrutinizing things).

Maybe electronic systems and miniaturization is not always for the best...
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Ameecher » 31 Oct 2018 17:43

Kevo00 wrote:Went for a trip on the TramTrain between Parkgate and Tinsley/Meadowhall - not bad for £3 return! Hard to see quite what took so long to achieve, though integration between NR and Supertram is still clearly not flawless. To move between the systems at Tinsley the driver has to punch in an access code, and then there was a lengthy delay before the tram could move onto Supertram metals as a tram was coming round from Meadowhall. Rotherham Central station has been fitted with a low platform before the high platform, an arrangement reminiscent of Oslo where tram and metro share some tracks. Parkgate is a bit weird as its basically a siding off the main line, signed 'trams only', and finding the platform was a bit tricky. Can't help but feel that really a length of line going off through a housing estate or something was really needed to show that the idea works though...
Aside from waiting for a tram, the switchover is deliberately a stop to set up systems but also to prompt the driver that it is a change of operations. Last thing you want is the driver to habitually carry on running line of sight on NR metals...
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Kevo00 » 31 Oct 2018 17:56

Very true and there are prominent signs warning of the start/end of line of sight operation.

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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by YNM » 01 Nov 2018 06:07

Ameecher wrote:Last thing you want is the driver to habitually carry on running line of sight on NR metals...
They have automatic AWS/TPWS on the switching, right ? Or is the line not equipped with them ?
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Dave » 01 Nov 2018 08:14

Yes but that’s not really the point. Think about the difficulty to transition when coming off a motorway after a long, incident free drive.

When I go to the in laws for Christmas they live five minutes up an A road from the motorway junction so I just chuck the car at that - the first time I have to stop is usually to park and I don’t have to worry about it.

... can’t do that at this end where I have to negotiate North London’s heavily congested, lawless roads. I really have to concentrate. And my vehicle weighs a ton and a half, not 60+.

Similar boundary points will exist at the end of the Crossrail core, and already do exist between NR and LU boundaries.
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Redirect Left » 01 Nov 2018 13:18

Dave wrote:Think about the difficulty to transition when coming off a motorway after a long, incident free drive.
That is just the worst. Mostly because I end up speeding because 30MPH feels so god damn slow.
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by YNM » 01 Nov 2018 14:07

Dave wrote:... can’t do that at this end where I have to negotiate North London’s heavily congested, lawless roads. I really have to concentrate. And my vehicle weighs a ton and a half, not 60+.

Similar boundary points will exist at the end of the Crossrail core, and already do exist between NR and LU boundaries.
Road designs in the UK are usually very generous so speed limits can't enforce themselves; if the roads are full of sharp bends you'd slow yourself down. Plus, train drivers are required to remember all part of the line unlike car drivers.

Come to think of it, it's not just doing line-of-sight operation on NR tracks that's dangerous, it's also going at NR speed limits and expecting a colour light signal on the tram tracks that's also dangerous.
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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Kevo00 » 02 Nov 2018 15:48

Yeah, it's a big change of line type between the two, and even varied styles within. Meadowhall-Rotherham is single line sharing a freight only line, but Rotherham - Parkgate is 55mph operation on a mainish double track line.

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Re: Random Transport Chatter

Post by Redirect Left » 13 Nov 2018 16:58

The Nova 3s for Transpennine Express have been delayed by around 6-7 month. This is due to an issue with the brakes, at low speed the brakes cause the train to judder to a stop, instead of a nice slow to a halt.
The Nova 1 & 2s are unaffected by this fault, and still scheduled to arrived as prior.

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