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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:15 pm 
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I would posit the answer to how much overhang is “not much”, but...

Signaller might have got away with it if nothing was due into the other bay - the two tracks become one before joining other lines, so it might be the track circuits would only block up the two bay platforms.

Technically if the train wasn’t inside the signal it wouldn’t be able to use the signal as a right away (if the track circuit in advance of the signal was occupied by the train the signal wouldn’t be able to set), so it’s an intriguing one.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:04 pm 
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Arriva Trains Wales has pulled out of the bid to run the Welsh network beyond 2018.
The franchise is up for renewal next year, and Arriva currently runs the majority of trains in Wales and the borders of it, and have done for the last 14 years.

The remaining bidders are MTR, Abellio & KeolisAmey.

BBC News

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:23 am 
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Redirect Left wrote:
Arriva Trains Wales has pulled out of the bid to run the Welsh network beyond 2018.
The franchise is up for renewal next year, and Arriva currently runs the majority of trains in Wales and the borders of it, and have done for the last 14 years.

The remaining bidders are MTR, Abellio & KeolisAmey.

BBC News


Might be worth splitting this off into another topic.

Yeah Wales is a funny one. The Welsh Assembly wanted it to be (1) not for profit, and (2) involving lots of actual construction work instead of just operating trains on NR tracks. So I'm not surprised that a bidder has pulled out, as it's become clear what the Assembly want.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:45 am 
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JamieLei wrote:
The Welsh Assembly wanted it to be (1) not for profit, and (2) involving lots of actual construction work instead of just operating trains on NR tracks..

I bet #1 put a lot off, and #2 put the rest off. Although it sounds like the Assembly is wanting the Welsh network to be improved and expanded, which it does need quite badly.

I'd also like to thank Geo, as the Wakefield Westgate trains seem to have been frequently knackered by delays going all the way down to Moorgate & nearby areas lately. No idea what he's up to, but he needs to stop it! :mrgreen:
edit: looking it up, looks like this morning the overhead went down at Welwyn, but for some reason the WKF announcer blamed it on delays in the MOG & STP/KGX area instead.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:27 am 
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Well, the trains that were coming to Wakefield would have been delayed by the congestion of trying to send everything round Hertford. Yesterday was a total disaster.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:31 am 
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Yeah, 6 tracks into 2 tracks doesn't quite fit last I checked.

Redirect Left wrote:
edit: looking it up, looks like this morning the overhead went down at Welwyn, but for some reason the WKF announcer blamed it on delays in the MOG & STP/KGX area instead.

Of course, because how many people are going to know where Welwyn is, compared to the amount of people who know where Kings Cross is?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:32 am 
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Redirect Left wrote:
I'd also like to thank Geo, as the Wakefield Westgate trains seem to have been frequently knackered by delays going all the way down to Moorgate & nearby areas lately. No idea what he's up to, but he needs to stop it! :mrgreen:
edit: looking it up, looks like this morning the overhead went down at Welwyn, but for some reason the WKF announcer blamed it on delays in the MOG & STP/KGX area instead.


A crane hit a OLE stanchion at Welwyn North over night and damaged it :P
Wasn't me, I have been on lates haha. I missed all the fun!

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:44 am 
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Apparently, TfL is continuing IK Brunel's legacy of holding a banquet in tunnel workings. Good to know.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:22 pm 
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I found this rather amusing

Apology after Japanese train departs 20 seconds early

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:31 pm 
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Pilot wrote:


It is disappointing that no one missed it because of that!

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:53 am 
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Pilot wrote:

It's fascinating how they can operate under such precision. Do they just calculate everything and give generous margin (so you go a bit slower normally and then going a bit faster otherwise) or what ?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:31 pm 
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Related to previous post :



At the end, it says "If you take care of the seconds, the minutes takes care of themself".

What you'd need to take care for 20-second precision ? Miliseconds ?

I don't say it's impossible, but it's massively, massively fascinating how japanese trains can be so precise. For instance, many of the long-distance train ride I take depart right on time or only 1 or 2 minute late, but arrive between 5 and 10 minutes late (which on itself is a whale of improvement compared to what it used to be). Sometimes it doesn't have to stop at all, so, why ? Would shifting the schedule works ? Or is it just that they're robot-like ?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:13 pm 
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YNM wrote:
At the end, it says "If you take care of the seconds, the minutes takes care of themself".

What you'd need to take care for 20-second precision ? Miliseconds ?

I don't say it's impossible, but it's massively, massively fascinating how japanese trains can be so precise. For instance, many of the long-distance train ride I take depart right on time or only 1 or 2 minute late, but arrive between 5 and 10 minutes late (which on itself is a whale of improvement compared to what it used to be). Sometimes it doesn't have to stop at all, so, why ? Would shifting the schedule works ? Or is it just that they're robot-like ?


Really interesting film! Thanks for sharing it!!

Indeed, Japanese trains are very punctual. I generally put it down to:
  • obsession with getting it down to the second;
  • very punitive punishments when staff get the small things wrong;
  • very high levels of maintenance and staffing (to the level that seems utterly costly for a western company); and
  • very co-operative passengers that don't run into doors at last minute, or cause delays.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:28 pm 
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JamieLei wrote:
YNM wrote:
At the end, it says "If you take care of the seconds, the minutes takes care of themself".

What you'd need to take care for 20-second precision ? Miliseconds ?

I don't say it's impossible, but it's massively, massively fascinating how japanese trains can be so precise. For instance, many of the long-distance train ride I take depart right on time or only 1 or 2 minute late, but arrive between 5 and 10 minutes late (which on itself is a whale of improvement compared to what it used to be). Sometimes it doesn't have to stop at all, so, why ? Would shifting the schedule works ? Or is it just that they're robot-like ?


Really interesting film! Thanks for sharing it!!

Indeed, Japanese trains are very punctual. I generally put it down to:
  • obsession with getting it down to the second;
  • very punitive punishments when staff get the small things wrong;
  • very high levels of maintenance and staffing (to the level that seems utterly costly for a western company); and
  • very co-operative passengers that don't run into doors at last minute, or cause delays.


I also think that it's a bit of chicken and egg situation with, for example the British network, with your last point, perception is trains are late so people don't think their actions will have that big an impact. How do you change the perception that actually they are on time and that you need to allow them to stay to time. Difficult to do on a network which has too many services to actually function properly in some areas.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:57 pm 
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If you get started on that, you basically have to take the entire society into account. For one, publicly inconveniencing anybody else is simply not done (much less of a "I matter, nobody else does" attitude), but also the deference to costumers is much higher, so the same applies for rail companies towards their costumers. But then, costumers aka commuters are also held much more closely to arriving punctually, always, so this translates back to the rail companies again.

And economically, there's simply a much higher number of train travelers there (both relative and absolute), so train companies can and must afford systems they otherwise can't. Likewise, cities like Tokyo would practically collapse if the trains weren't punctual - when you have stations running express trains every few minutes, you can't just have regular five minute delays. So they basically also have no other choice but the make sure everything runs smoothly.

So honestly I don't think you can really just go into any Western country and say "let's do it like the Japanese", because conditions are completely different. Both for the people involved and the economic landscape. But even if money weren't a concern, it still wouldn't be easy, as the attitude would nonetheless be too different ^^


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:24 pm 
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Ameecher wrote:
Difficult to do on a network which has too many services to actually function properly in some areas.

I bet you love people like me :wink:

YNM wrote:
Would shifting the schedule works ?

The Schedule might not be the issue, certainly in the UK, trains are scheduled in such a way that they should be able to work on paper - whether this works in practice is a different story. It could be your signallers are too slow clearing a train through, it could be that there is a temporary speed restriction somewhere, forcing the train to run at a speed slower that it's timetable, it could be the platform staff take too long the dispatch the train, or the crowds take too long to board the train. There are so many variables, especially with Passenger trains.

Pyoro wrote:
Likewise, cities like Tokyo would practically collapse if the trains weren't punctual - when you have stations running express trains every few minutes, you can't just have regular five minute delays. So they basically also have no other choice but the make sure everything runs smoothly.

The UKs system is very much in the same boat now though (at least in some areas). We are running express trains every few minutes, alongside Semi-Fast and stopping trains, and when the poop does hit the fan, these can all have a knock on effect on one another.

One of the main reasons we're proceeding with HS2 despite large opposition is because there just isn't the capacity for (many) more trains on the West Coast Mainline, and certainly not Express trains (Ameecher might know a bit more about this than myself). And unlike the rest of Europe, we can't run double deck trains either; We'd end up taking down bridges everywhere.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:08 pm 
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Pilot wrote:
[The Schedule might not be the issue, certainly in the UK, trains are scheduled in such a way that they should be able to work on paper - whether this works in practice is a different story. It could be your signallers are too slow clearing a train through, it could be that there is a temporary speed restriction somewhere, forcing the train to run at a speed slower that it's timetable, it could be the platform staff take too long the dispatch the train, or the crowds take too long to board the train. There are so many variables, especially with Passenger trains.


Platform staff taking too long to dispatch & crowds taking too long to board are timetabling issues. If these are causing trains to run late then obviously the timetable is not realistic - more time needs to be added in for station calls

I don't know what it is about the UK but I find that quite often the train will not depart the starting station on time instead 1 or 2 mins after. Obviously keeping to a timetable when you start late is not easy...

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:40 pm 
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Pilot wrote:
Ameecher wrote:
Difficult to do on a network which has too many services to actually function properly in some areas.

I bet you love people like me :wink: .

Meh STP can do what they want. I have issue with the WTT being maxed out to the point that headway is being recalculated to make it all fit... I'm looking forward to the public hanging that we'll all get in about June when the proposed timetable changes fall flat on their face, either through crap reliability or the infrastructure needed to run them not being finished yet.

Then the same again in December.


As for WCML, there's loads of space, just not consistently and not at any of the stations and not if you want to run on the whole route. Otherwise, loads of space.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:41 pm 
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Does anyone know, do I need a valid passport to visit Northern Ireland, or is it still classed as 'internal' flight and any ID will do?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:53 pm 
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Redirect Left wrote:
Does anyone know, do I need a valid passport to visit Northern Ireland, or is it still classed as 'internal' flight and any ID will do?

Depends on the airline sometimes, however, on Flybe (my ticket from September is right next to me), they just request any form of Photo ID, and the majority of others do. Best to check with the Airline directly before booking.

Chris wrote:
Platform staff taking too long to dispatch & crowds taking too long to board are timetabling issues. If these are causing trains to run late then obviously the timetable is not realistic - more time needs to be added in for station calls

Provisions are made to allow trains to dwell for longer during the peaks at busier stations, but you can't account for those people who try to get on a train that is obviously too full for them, delaying it further. What you also can't account for is the dispatcher's being busy with another train, due to that being delayed for another reason. Another issue is that if you add too much extra time, you could theoretically lose Headway to the train behind you, effectively losing a train during a time when that additional train is needed the most.

Ameecher wrote:
Meh STP can do what they want.

Glad you said that :lol: Though I know what you mean, we're just picking up the white space after all.

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