[MH17] Malaysian 777 has crashed in Ukraine

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Re: Malaysian 777 has crashed in Ukraine

Post by Redirect Left »

According to a Ukrainian official, the black box recorder has revealed the plane came down due to 'massive explosive decompression', caused by a rocket. Seemingly clearing up any further doubt about what happened.
The UN has also stated that the downing of MH17 may be a 'war crime'

Source on both: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28520813'
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Re: Malaysian 777 has crashed in Ukraine

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Redirect Left wrote: According to a Ukrainian official, the black box recorder has revealed the plane came down due to 'massive explosive decompression', caused by a rocket.
That´s already known since we saw pictures from the debris, the shrapnel holes clearly to be seen.
Redirect Left wrote: The UN has also stated that the downing of MH17 may be a 'war crime'.
And I hope the Dutch people might feel some form of "compensation", some day when Yazenyuk, Turchynov, Avakov, Parubiy, Tyahnybok, Pyroshenko, ..., are being committed to Den Haag.

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Re: Malaysian 777 has crashed in Ukraine

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Yeah one of the pieces of wreckage i saw was Riddled with shrapnel holes.
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Re: Malaysian 777 has crashed in Ukraine

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Some very good analysis this week in the Economist. Their reporting is meticulously researched. Well worth your money if you can go out and pick up a copy.
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Re: Malaysian 777 has crashed in Ukraine

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The missile attack on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 by Russian-backed rebels in eastern Ukraine killed 298 people and shocked the world.

http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/ ... -ukrainian
I won´t call western propaganda based on prepared "facts" worth my money.

[edit]
Since last weekend, the Ukrainian junta is hindering salvage works and investigations at the MH17 crash site in a massive way.

Despite his "promise" for a ceasefire in an area of 40 km around the crash site, and in violation of UN resolution 2166 which forbids all military action inside this area [*], Pyrochenko ordered to start massive military actions in this area, including the crash site, which continuously keeps international experts away from the area.

Even Netherland´s Prime Minister Rutte requested Pyrochenko to stop all military action according to UN resolution 2166, to allow the experts to access the site.

Obviously, the Ukrainan regime is working hard to cover the truth of the MH17 crash, now that its role as a "game changer" has been effective, in yet more sanctions against and tensions with Russia.
* wrote: “7. [The Security Council] Demands that all military activities, including by armed groups, be immediately ceased in the immediate area surrounding the crash site to allow for security and safety of the international investigation;"

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2014/sc11483.doc.htm
[/edit]

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Re: Malaysian 777 has crashed in Ukraine

Post by Wahazar »

Russia claims, that airplane was shooted by ukrainian forces and shows some satellite imagery as an evidence.
However seems that there is a blind spot - vegetation phase does not match:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut1JExQK ... e=youtu.be
Ukrainian evidences are gathered here:
http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.com/2014/0 ... -mh17.html
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Re: Malaysian 777 has crashed in Ukraine

Post by michael blunck »

Who is hampering investigations on the MH17 crash and inspection of the crash site, in violation of UN resolution 2166?
osce wrote: "The SMM was again unsuccessful in reaching the wreckage site of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17. Due to security considerations only a reconnaissance with two SMM vehicles (with one representative of the Australian contingent and one representative of the Dutch contingent) was made, but the SMM stopped in Shakhtarsk when they heard gunfire exchanges (believed to be taking place within a maximum distance of one kilometre) and a mortar/howitzer impact (believed to be taking place within a distance of two-three kilometres). The SMM returned to Donetsk without any further incident. The original access road to the wreckage site is no longer accessible due to ongoing military operations. The SMM continues to work on different channels to regain access to it."

Latest from the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine, based on information received by 18:00hrs, 29 July (Kyiv time)
http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/122077
Moreover, it is a fact that until now, both the Ukrainian Junta and the US State Department did not release:

- recordings of ATC / MH17 chat
- official radar data
- US satellite data (i.e., not those low resolution third-party photos on social media)
- cockpit voice recorder data from MH17 (granted, analysis of flight recorder data might last months, but OTOH data from AH5017´s flight data recorder has already been read out)

I´m quite sure that Russian Intelligence has detailed military satellite data and also recordings of ATC chat. Seems they´re waiting what Ukraine/US will come up with.

The "Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity" (a group of former US intelligence officers) released an open letter urging President Obama to release what evidence he has about the tragedy.

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Re: Malaysian 777 has crashed in Ukraine

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The Dutch safety board have today released findings. It once again reaffirmed, in no uncertain terms, the aircraft was brought down by a missile, specifically a Russian made one. However it does not specify which side of the conflict was to blame, Russian or Ukrainian forces.

The three crew in the cockpit died instantly, however it was unable to ascertain whether other crew and the passengers survived the initial explosion. They may have survived for part, or all, of the minute and a half descent before it made contact with the ground. Parts of high energy objects were found in the bodies of the three crew. The composition and paint fragments of found debris from the missile confirmed it was a missile of Russian origin, fired from a BUK missile launcher. The missile detonated less than a cubic metre from the above-left of the front of the aircraft, perforating the cockpits windows and walls in numerous locations.

Source: BBC News.
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Re: (MH17) Malaysian 777 has crashed in Ukraine

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Nearly four years on, the investigation board have today said, based upon the simulation of trajectories of the warhead, the missile came from a Russia brigade stationed in Western Russia. This is the first time the investigation has categorically laid the blame to a specific party.

BBC News

At a time when European and Russian relations are frosty, this will be an unwelcome setback, I'm sure Russia will be quick to deny it, and possibly say we're working further against them...

It'll also be interesting to see if based upon this, there are repercussions towards Russia, when it first occured it was noted that the incident may qualify as a war crime, I wonder if that is still hte case to be looked at...
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Re: [MH17] Malaysian 777 has crashed in Ukraine

Post by Redirect Left »

Another update to this story, to any one following it,

Four people have been charged with murder, after presecutors identified four people of interest, 3 russians and 1 ukrainian.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48691488
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Re: [MH17] Malaysian 777 has crashed in Ukraine

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So many questions...

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Re: [MH17] Malaysian 777 has crashed in Ukraine

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8 years later, three people have found been guilty of bringing down the MH17 flight back in 2014. A Dutch court has ruled a Russian controlled group were responsible for the missile that saw MH17 crash with the loss of all life, with the three men, 2 Russians and a Ukrainian, sentenced to life behind jail. The minor problem is that the three responsible according to the court are not actually being held by law enforcement. Meaning no people are expected to actually serve time for the MH17 disaster. Naturally the Kremlin were unhelpful, and Russian law prevents extradition of its citizens, meaning you can basically do anything if you're a Russian citizen, but if you get back home, you're off the hook.
The three had intended to shoot down a military plane, however fired at the civilian plane instead.

Source: BBC News & ABC News

I honestly didn't expect anyone to be able to prove precisely who brought down the flight all them years ago, but here we have it. Whilst it answers some questions, I'm sure there's many more still to come, possibly never to be answered.
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Re: [MH17] Malaysian 777 has crashed in Ukraine

Post by sevenfm »

Redirect Left wrote: 17 Nov 2022 15:47 Russian law prevents extradition of its citizens, meaning you can basically do anything if you're a Russian citizen, but if you get back home, you're off the hook.
Just for clarification, the same law exists in France, Japan and Ukraine.
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Re: [MH17] Malaysian 777 has crashed in Ukraine

Post by Redirect Left »

sevenfm wrote: 17 Nov 2022 15:55
Redirect Left wrote: 17 Nov 2022 15:47 Russian law prevents extradition of its citizens, meaning you can basically do anything if you're a Russian citizen, but if you get back home, you're off the hook.
Just for clarification, the same law exists in France, Japan and Ukraine.
Broadly speaking though, they tend to have special circumstances in their own laws wherein they'll gather evidence from abroad, and instead you'll be subjected to your own laws in your own country. Russia tends to wave their hand over anything citizens do, and at best gives them a stern verbal telling off, if anything, from what is known of their admittedly generally secretive system of things.
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Re: [MH17] Malaysian 777 has crashed in Ukraine

Post by sevenfm »

sevenfm wrote: 17 Nov 2022 15:55 Broadly speaking though, they tend to have special circumstances in their own laws wherein they'll gather evidence from abroad, and instead you'll be subjected to your own laws in your own country.
The same law exists in Russia - if another country provides evidence that Russian citizen committed a crime on it's territory, he can be prosecuted in Russia by Russian law. So you cannot kill somebody abroad and then be free from punishment. That requires some communication between countries and working together though.
I am personally more interested in what real evidence they published to support their decision? I hope it wasn't one of those closed door cases.
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Re: [MH17] Malaysian 777 has crashed in Ukraine

Post by Redirect Left »

sevenfm wrote: 17 Nov 2022 16:32 The same law exists in Russia - if another country provides evidence that Russian citizen committed a crime on it's territory, he can be prosecuted in Russia by Russian law. So you cannot kill somebody abroad and then be free from punishment. That requires some communication between countries and working together though.
Therin is mostly where the issue lays though. Russia has been responsible for several global outrages that have resulted in, at least externally, no action done. Such as poisoning other officials, and then going back home by the time it has been discovered. Such as the poisonings of Sergei Skripal and Alexander Litvinenko, both of which had minimal legal repercussions, at least officially. They don't have a good track record compared to other countries with similar layouts in the law.
sevenfm wrote: 17 Nov 2022 16:32 I am personally more interested in what real evidence they published to support their decision? I hope it wasn't one of those closed door cases.
There is 'ample evidence' (wording taken from this article on NDTV), although the article, and from what I can tell all the others, do not state what the evidence was in a precise manner, so I am going to presume it is, at least for now, a closed case. Hopefully there is sufficient public interest & merit to disclosing information at a later time though. Whilst I appreciate them pursuing the case and coming to a sentence at a court, i'd also love to have the evidence to see myself, but mostly as I'm too curious for my own good and have far too much spare time to research things :x
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