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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:29 pm 
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Pilot wrote:
GarryG wrote:
no more freight or coal trains came through which is unusual as they usually regular with several an hour.

Is Coal traffic still rather big on the Australian Railways? I know in the UK that quite a lot of it is disappearing now, so it'd be interesting to know if the same was happening out there.


I'd guess that in the US and AUS, unit coal trains makeup the vast majority of all rail traffic here outside of a few dense transit corridors. Coal use is dwindling in the US, but more of the coal used actually travels farther, as much of the more economical and higher quality stuff is in remote areas out west.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:51 pm 
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supermop wrote:
I'd guess that in the US and AUS, unit coal trains makeup the vast majority of all rail traffic here outside of a few dense transit corridors. Coal use is dwindling in the US, but more of the coal used actually travels farther, as much of the more economical and higher quality stuff is in remote areas out west.


In State of NSW majority of freight is unit trains of Coal, Grain, Ore and container traffic. No longer do we see mixed freight, fuel and livestock on rail.

That might make playing OpenTTD interesting if by say 1980 not allowed to carry Mail, Wool, Fibre Crops, Stone, Sand, Livestock, Fuel (oils and petrols) by rail .. all has to be by road transport. Gravel and Sand only see that on rail these days on track maintenance trains.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:53 am 
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Destination: St. Pancras
From: Twickenham
Operator(s): South West Trains, Southern Rail, Southeastern, TfL (Victoria Line, Northern and Overground)
Notes: I took the... indirect route to St Pancras via Brixton, Walthamstow Central and Hackney Central.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:20 am 
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Yesterday; Chalkwell to Southend East on 357015. First time on NR in ages; first time on c2c. Also first time I've noticed automatic station announcements being done in a "local" rather than "neutral/RP" accent.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:45 am 
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Hi all, the stories of journeys great to read, but be even greater if knew what you are travelling on/in/behind.

EXTspotter wrote:
Chalkwell to Southend East on 357015


No offence to you EXTspotter or any others who use similar numbering like you .. but what is a 357015? Is it the loco number, train code, number of the carriage you travelled in?

Members of these forums come from all 4 corners of the world and also I worked on the railways for 24 years in my Country, and like me, many of us wouldn't understand what those numbers mean.

Was the train you travelled on diesel hauled, steam hauled, electric hauled, EMU, DMU or something else? If ever possible a photo be great too.

So can I suggest anyone putting a story here give a bit more details .. still tell it in your words but put in brackets after something you think others may bot understand. For instance is 357015, 357015 (High speed DMU) .. something like that.

Cheers all

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:19 am 
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http://railwayherald.com/images/ic/750/402833.jpg

Class 357s are used exclusively by c2c, the company running trains from the City of London to the South Essex coast.

They can do 100mph, but the line they run on is limited to 75mph.

Trains in the UK are numbered by class. So a class 170 will be numbered 170xxx, cl 357 will be 357xxx etc.

The same extends to locos - a Cl 37 will be 37xxx.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:40 am 
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Thanks Dave explaining some of it. Be still good if story tellers mention these things.

Not sure of the numbering system in Australia now .. believe it been changed.

When I first started with them in 1970 .. trains heading away from Sydney has a odd number and when that train returned had even number. For Instance Brisbane Limited Express Sydney to Brisbane was called 1 and called 2 on return. Southern Aurora leaving Sydney was 1 and returned as 2. Later they put a letter in front of the numbers. Brisbane Limited became N1 and N2 as it travelling north. Southern Aurora was S1 and S2 as it travelled south.

The numbering system used was not based on the class of engine or train composition .. but maybe it is now.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:47 pm 
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I have another one: From Hampton Court to Twickenham, with a 20 minute wait at New Malden between trains.
I got a class 456/455 combo from Hampton Court to New Malden (with some odd stuff happening at Surbiton along the way).
Attachment:
File comment: Class 456
20170430_105143.jpg [4.16 MiB]
Not downloaded yet


As I waited at New Malden, I saw the following classes: 159 (fast), 444 (fast), 450 (fast) and 455 (fast to Clandon, all else slow). I can get pictures from the day if you would like to see them. Then I hopped on a class 455 (no pics on my laptop) all the way to Twickenham. We were almost held up by a red signal outside Strawberry Hill, due to the signaller being slow on closing the level crossing, the signal only turning green at the last second. I recorded some trains at New Malden. Try and work out what they are:


Attachments:
Recording 30.wav [2.14 MiB]
Downloaded 12 times

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 11:28 am 
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GarryG wrote:
When I first started with them in 1970 .. trains heading away from Sydney has a odd number and when that train returned had even number. For Instance Brisbane Limited Express Sydney to Brisbane was called 1 and called 2 on return. Southern Aurora leaving Sydney was 1 and returned as 2. Later they put a letter in front of the numbers. Brisbane Limited became N1 and N2 as it travelling north. Southern Aurora was S1 and S2 as it travelled south.

We have a similar Train Reporting Number (or Headcode) in the UK, for example, my journey last Monday was:

Pilot wrote:
1100 London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly via Stoke on 390135.


This would have been using the headcode 1H20, the first number denotes it's a Class 1, an express passenger train. The letter is normally the region (or if it is within region (such as this example), a certain destination in this region), in this case the H denotes Manchester. The 2 following numbers are just for identifying a specific train, in this case, the 1100 off Euston. The 390135 is just the number of the specific unit that I was travelling on, as Dave explained (Class 390, number 135, 11 car Express EMU)

An empty Coal train from Drax (Yorkshire) to Hunterston (Scotland) might use the headcode 4S15, where the 4 denotes it is a 75mph Max freight train, then the S denotes it is heading to Scotland. The inbound (loaded train) however might run as 6E80, where the 6 denotes it is a 60mph maximum freight train, and the E denoting it is going to the Eastern Region. The difference in speed might be due to the fact that it is loaded, and therefore a lot heavier.

We also have the letter Z in some trains, which denotes that they are specials, so a railtour or the movement of the Flying Scotsman, for example.

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 12:44 pm 
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Thanks for that Pilot.

In the 1990s they started using 4 digit coding similar to what you mention, but I'm out of touch with how they run today as so many private firms operating now. Even got trains from State of Queensland which is narrow gauge, operating Standard gauge coal trains in State of New South Wales.

I went train riding today catching a EMU from Cardiff and changed to a DMU at Hamilton and detrained at a station called High Street which is a suburb of Mailtland. This same station I went to last Thursday and they closed the line that day preventing me getting pics.
Empty Pacific National Rail Coal Train with 3 locos and 96 empty wagons.
Attachment:
Empty Coal.png
Empty Coal.png [ 305.51 KiB | Viewed 431 times ]

The Empty Pacific National Rail Coal Train and a Pacific National Container Train with 23 loaded wagons and a swag of 57 empties.
Attachment:
Container Train.png
Container Train.png [ 300.3 KiB | Viewed 431 times ]

Loaded Glencore Coal Train. It had 96 wagons .. each would be 100 tonnes .. Wagon weighs 22 tonnes and they carry 78 tonnes of coal.
Attachment:
Loaded Glencore Train.png
Loaded Glencore Train.png [ 495.46 KiB | Viewed 431 times ]

Spent an hour there and saw several loaded and empty coal trains, a XPT passenger train heading north to Casino, and several DMU's, but only the one Container train.

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 1:53 pm 
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Pilot wrote:
*headcode post*


Although this basically stands, this is a lot less reliable in the post-BR era.

For example, trains from Waterloo (Southern Region) to Exeter (Western Region) would be expected to have a headcode starting 1V (1 being express passenger, V being Western Region) - in fact all trains on this route have a head code starting 1L.

However, as a general rule, if a train's destination is in ANOTHER region:

A - London bound train
E - train to Eastern region
M - train to London Midland region
O - train to Southern region
Q - departmental trains (measurement, test trains, etc)
S - train to Scottish region
V - train to Western region
X - out of gauge or long trains (rarely used these days, most notably for movement of underground stock from Bombardier's Derby works to Ruislip)
Z - specials or trains planned at short (or very short) notice

Most regions had their own variations for movement WITHIN a region; for example London Midland's key locations used to be:

A - London
B/G - Birmingham
C - Lancaster
D - North Wales/Holyhead
F - Liverpool
H - Manchester
K - Crewe
M - Carlisle
P - Preston
S - Scotland
T - for trip workings (local shunting and stopping freight)

Now for numbers; although counter intuitively this is probably more adhered to these days than previously:

1 - Express passenger, mail/newspapers/parcels
2 - Local/stopping passenger, mail/newspapers/parcels
3 - Mail/newspapers/parcels not otherwise specified (used these days to denoted express empty passenger stock movements)
4 - Fast freight (usually 75mph freightliners, although as Pilot says some coal also); lower priority mail/newspapers/parcels
5 - Empty Carriage Stock movements
6 - Freight limited to 60mph
7 - Freight limited to 45mph
8 - Freight limited to 35mph
9 - Freight limited to 25mph (almost non-existent now - in recent years used to distinguish certain services from others that are very similar - Virgin use 9X** headcodes for their trains via Birmingham)
0 - Light engines

Again these are NOT an exact science.

There were special headcodes for light engines to specific depots (0F81 for Worcester Yard, 0Z94 for Stourbridge Junction, etc) and the LM region also had codes for specific trains. In the 1975 sectional appendix, codes were defined for a train rescuing another (1Z99), weed killing train (6Z07) and a Matisa track recording trolley (7Z06 when not recording, 9Z06 when working) - these are a few of many!

So basically... It's impossible to nail down an exact set of examples!

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 2:16 pm 
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Dave wrote:
weed killing train (6Z07)

That's worrying that you picked that headcode out in particular, That's one of the Weed-killing trains that I plan!

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 2:32 pm 
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Pilot wrote:
Dave wrote:
weed killing train (6Z07)

That's worrying that you picked that headcode out in particular, That's one of the Weed-killing trains that I plan!


Nice to see old habits die hard ;) some of these will have existed since headcodes were introduced. 1Z99 is widely used, I'm aware of that.

6L12 to 6L15 were other oft used headcodes between Carlisle New Yard and Carnforth Bottom Sidings. These were invariably headed by a chuck out (usually a 25 or a 40). In 1979, the first 6L12 was a run south. With a max speed of 50mph and a heavy load, it'd find itself binned in almost every passing loop over Shap, then shunted at Carnforth. A variety of trip workings back UP the hill to the various quarries would follow (they were all on the down side, except Hardendale, which was wired so took 86-hauled trains directly) before returning to Carnforth. The empties were eventually hauled back north to Carlisle NY later in the day.

Playing SimSig taught me that no headcode system is sacred. It's also why I know so much about Carlisle! If you want to understand what the railway was like around 1980, play the Carlisle sim from that era. It's intricately detailed (and isn't even complete - a new version lands soon). Probably best to start on something smaller if you're new to SimSig though.

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 6:25 pm 
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I went to Zone 9 today: Amersham. The Met line train (S stock metro train) I got there was great, the Chiltern train (166+165 Thames Turbos) back was pathetic: 9 minutes late.

Photos to come later.

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:43 pm 
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Gwyd wrote:
I went to Zone 9 today: Amersham. The Met line train (S stock metro train) I got there was great, the Chiltern train (166+165 Thames Turbos) back was pathetic: 9 minutes late.

Photos to come later.

Out of interest, are you calling the Chiltern service pathetic because of the delay, or another reason? Also, I believe that only the FGW 165/166s are Thames Turbos, after all, the Chiltern ones don't run along the Thames.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 3:02 am 
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Dave wrote:
Although this basically stands, this is a lot less reliable in the post-BR era.


Interesting information Dave. Australia was going in that direction to in the 1990s, but have no idea what they using now. Have to contact a old friend of mine who is Train Controller in Sydney see what's been happening.

I wonder if a forum could be started so those who know a fair bit about their railway system in their country can tell those who love trains but don't know some of these things we been mention past few days. Don't need to be about trains rides we done. Just information such as the ID codes, train types and classes, and maybe the safeworking that they used in past and using now.

Gwyd wrote:
Train running pathetic: 9 minutes late.


A survey carried out in New South Wales back in the 80s .. the biggest delays to trains are caused by the passengers who leave it to the last minute to arrive at a station to catch their train.

Usually passenger running late for their train, guard sees them running down the stairs to get his train so he delays his train a minute or 2 to wait for the late passenger. Often the late late passenger instead of them getting in the train at the first door they come to, they go to a door several carriages away and delay the train even more.

The unfortunate part is once a train gets delay even a few minutes creates a domino effect, especially at junctions and if that train is scheduled to connect with another train at another station.

Often the signalman at the junction has to allow trains that are on time to pass through the junctions and in turn this makes the train that was only 1 or 2 minutes later even later as it gets delayed at signals waiting its chance to pass through the junction.

The signalman will delay it even more to prevent delays to other trains.

Some times the train that is late is an express and rather delay other trains, it will get put behind a all station train, when normally if it was on time, it would have been in front of that train. Doesn't take long before it is 9 minutes late or more.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 6:15 am 
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GarryG wrote:
Gwyd wrote:
Train running pathetic: 9 minutes late.

*reasons for delays*

Assuming Gwyd was on the 1539 (booked time, actual departure 1549) from Amersham, this particular one wasn't passengers. The delay however could have been a lot worse for him, fortunately for him however, the train was turned around at Aylesbury instead of Aylesbury Vale Parkway, which saved about 20 minutes. Better to have a 9 minute delay (that was only 6 by Marylebone) than a cancelled train, eh Gwyd? :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 5:05 pm 
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Pilot wrote:
Gwyd wrote:
I went to Zone 9 today: Amersham. The Met line train (S stock metro train) I got there was great, the Chiltern train (166+165 Thames Turbos) back was pathetic: 9 minutes late.

Photos to come later.

Out of interest, are you calling the Chiltern service pathetic because of the delay, or another reason? Also, I believe that only the FGW 165/166s are Thames Turbos, after all, the Chiltern ones don't run along the Thames.

Yep the FGW are known as Thames Turbos and the CR are Chiltern Turbos. To be fair it is quite rare that Chiltern are that late, however it is quite often equal time wise getting the tube in to London as from Amersham the Chiltern is usually scheduled 10 mins behind the tube meaning that by the time you get into London the Chiltern is barely 10 mins ahead of the tube and so if you're going anywhere other than somewhere on the bakerloo the walk to baker Street makes both equal timewise. Plus you're guaranteed a seat in the met as it starts there.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 9:28 pm 
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Using the Chiltern route via Harrow-on-the-Hill is a proper old stagger.

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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 7:36 pm 
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Very glad my train wasn't cancelled...

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