Cumbria Rail accident

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Ameecher
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Post by Ameecher »

jpmaster wrote:BBC news was saying yesterday that the stretcher bars were out of place and/or missing nuts and bolts.
There was some doubt from "people in the know" as to whether the train had damaged the points. They may have been missing but it is hard to tell if it was caused by the train or were like that before hand, if the last time an inspection had taken place 3 weeks ago, hundreds of trains must have passed over it safely.

On another note, when will this section of the WCML reopen and what is happening at the moment? Are any Pendos running on the S&C?
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Post by Brianetta »

Ameecher wrote:There was some doubt from "people in the know" as to whether the train had damaged the points. They may have been missing but it is hard to tell if it was caused by the train or were like that before hand, if the last time an inspection had taken place 3 weeks ago, hundreds of trains must have passed over it safely.
Each train that passed would have separated the switch rails in the point a little further. Once they were so far apart that they were closed against both stock rails, the next train would find itself between rails that converge over just a few metres. Since the wheels of a train do not converge, every last coach of that train will have been lifted out of the switch an allowed to run free. The nature of a switch like that means that the train will have intruded on the other running line after derailing. If a train had been coming the other way, there would have been a collision, almost head-on.
On another note, when will this section of the WCML reopen and what is happening at the moment? Are any Pendos running on the S&C?
At the very least two weeks, according to RAIB's estimate. The remaining (previously undamaged) spacer bars on the points were fractured by the train's flanges. The stock rails and the normal CWRs following have been heavily damaged, on boththe up and down lines. The up line catenary has been wiped out, and the down line catenary was also heavily damaged. Added to this, there's still a buggered Pendy sprawled all over the place. So, the line will be re-opened when:
  1. The scene is officially declared not a crime scene
  2. The train has been removed
  3. The tracks, points and catenary have been rebuilt
I don't know what rail stock is running where, but Virgin have released printed timetables which include the bus between Lancaster or Preston and Carlisle. It's not going to be a quick fix.

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Post by Dave »

The S&C isn't electrified.

I don't know how it's working there at the moment.

I do know that they're drafting in some 87s (the horror!) and mk3 stock for now to replace the Pendo that they're missing. Was originally going to be 90s but this might be difficult since there are several issues that have combined to make that tricky.

In addition, "hundreds of other trains" include the New Measurement Train (the 43s with the equipment carriages in between), which passed over the points on the 11th, if I remember correctly.

That should give us some insight.
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Post by Brianetta »

Dave Worley wrote:In addition, "hundreds of other trains" include the New Measurement Train (the 43s with the equipment carriages in between), which passed over the points on the 11th, if I remember correctly.

That should give us some insight.
Indeed! I'm looking forward to the next interim report, once they've had the chance to look over the video footage that the NMT recorded as it passed over those points.

I'm actually more interested in what they're going to say about the Pendolino itself. The RAIB hasn't been inside the coaches yet to assess what flew around and what remained bolted down (they're waiting for the coaches to be moved to a more stable location) but it does look like Alstom are going to be receiving some very favourable mentions.

I can imagine that Branson felt some ambivalence upon seeing his train lying in a field. On the one hand, pride that he invested so heavily in safety (far exceeding requirements of legislation) and that that investment paid off. On the other hand, the pain of seeing his investments tested like that, and of knowing that a life was lost on board his train, and of seeing the wounded in hospital. I have immense respect for the man for facing the press, there on the field with his train behind him, without a script or prepared statement of any kind.

It's humbling. He's one of the greatest human beings there is.

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Post by Ameecher »

Brianetta wrote:Owem, I hate your anti-spam thing.
So much so that you spelt his name wrong! :P

I agree with your opinion, Branson is a bloke who has the money but also sense. He has his feet fairly well planted on the ground and knows what matters to the general public. At that point he realised that the public wanted some information not loops of a derailed pendo and repeated speculation. I thanked him for that.
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Post by Dave »

He's a well respected man because of the way he's made his millions. Fair play to him. I wanted to be like him for ages (for Toni's sake hahaha! she loved her money).
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Post by Train-a-Mania »

Brianetta wrote:Owen, I hate your anti-spam thing.
Me too, but I suppose it's necessary.
Armeecher wrote:He has his feet fairly well planted on the ground and knows what matters to the general public. At that point he realised that the public wanted some information not loops of a derailed pendo and repeated speculation.
Again, not something you would see in the U.S.
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Post by orudge »

Train-a-Mania wrote:Me too, but I suppose it's necessary.
I will try and see if I can disable it for users with more than 20 posts, or something. As of yet, I haven't quite had the time. :?
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Post by andel »

Apparently the test train video'd it two days before and thus saw that the stretcher bar was missing... it's quite shocking to think how many had been so lucky to get over that set...
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Post by Ameecher »

andel wrote:Apparently the test train video'd it two days before and thus saw that the stretcher bar was missing... it's quite shocking to think how many had been so lucky to get over that set...
So it saw it and nobody did anything about it? Oh that's good...
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Post by andel »

they didn't get a chance to review it until after the accident. Standard procedure..
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Post by chevyrider »

As a railway-man i see that the used type of junction isn't save when the supplementary drive breaks.
When it does, the rear stretcher-bar doesn't move, while the detector rods can tell the system, everything is oke.
In Holland we only use junctions with one single front bar with two detector-rods, nothing else, up to 80 km/h.
Next step is the high-speed-junction, for 130 km/h or higher.
The switchrail is 80 meters long and has 4 separate point-machines.
The moving point (top of drawing) has an other 3 machines.
They ALL have their own detector rods.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/p ... ayrigg.pdf
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Post by Dave »

Train is being moved. Apparently may be salvageable. Much more in-depth examination is required, but a cursory inspection suggests that at least part of the train could be saved.

It sounds weird to say that about a Pendolino but it's only the same as a 150, I guess. And they've had units chopped and changed for years.
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Post by John »

Ameecher wrote:
andel wrote:Apparently the test train video'd it two days before and thus saw that the stretcher bar was missing... it's quite shocking to think how many had been so lucky to get over that set...
So it saw it and nobody did anything about it? Oh that's good...
if they use the video to check the condition of the track then it would take longer then 2 days to process it (and it depends how long the video is...)

you know anything more about test train video checking Andel? (or anyone for that matter)
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Post by andel »

Its a train that runs the length of the uk, checking the track for any problems (such like this one). Its eventually going to be sophisticated enough to pick out problems and alert P/Way managers to the problems quicker. With 125/140 running not far off, you can't very well have gangs walking the track so much...

More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Measurement_Train
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Post by Ameecher »

7 of the carraiges have been removed and the final 2 are expected to be moved by tonight/tomorrow. Apparently the heavy rain hasn't helped matters. When the WCML will reopen is still unknown at this point.
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Post by Dave »

Still not before a week today, is the most likely estimate.
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Post by Griff »

Talk about topic digging, but this is relevant..so its all good.

Apparently a 46 year old Network Rail employee has been arrested over the Cumbria rail crash.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/6897146.stm
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Post by Kevo00 »

Interesting - I was thinking about what happened to this today.
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