Hyperloop to start construction

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Re: Hyperloop to start construction

Post by YNM »

Hmm... Wouldn't it be better if hyperloops are built fully underground ? Wouldn't it helps a bit for the vacuum ? And fully underground means better access to inner city...
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Re: Hyperloop to start construction

Post by Redirect Left »

YNM wrote:Hmm... Wouldn't it be better if hyperloops are built fully underground ? Wouldn't it helps a bit for the vacuum ? And fully underground means better access to inner city...
I would imagine its cheaper to build overground, than the cost of heavy machinery churning out thousands of tonnes of dirt.
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Re: Hyperloop to start construction

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supermop wrote:
teccuk wrote:But it's niche. Its amusement parks and tourist rides. One or two tiny systems and I think a reasonable sized on ein India. But its hardly the future transport the 60/70s promised it would be.
The systems I mentioned exclude tourist rides and are real urban rapid transit systems used every day as such by residents. I don't think many of these really could be considered "tiny" in the way that the Seattle monorail is - these systems are larger than many cities' proper heavy rail metro systems. They certainly are niche, but monorail (and maglev, and now hyperloop) have always been intended as niche products for very specific circumstances, that they may or may not ultimately excel at. No one seriously proposed replacing a national heavy freight rail network with concrete beam monorail, just as Elon Musk isn't trying to get BNSF or UP to haul coal across country in hyperloops. If anyone in the 60s was actually proposing that monorail was somehow the future for all types of rail haulage they were either an overeager Alweg salesperson or a SciFi writer who didn't fully grasp the concept. Hitachi's monorail division seems to be doing just fine in terms of sales, even if Hitachi makes much more in revenue from heavy rail. Monorail (and other light rubber tired systems) can be built elevated less obtrusively that heavy rail, and can handle steeper inclines. For some lines these criteria may be more crucial than through running with a national network or more familiar equipment.

Beyond monorail and hyperloop, there are plenty of other small guided transit concepts that have no way of interfacing with either road or standard gauge rail, yet are still successful without becoming ubiquitous; primarily rubber tired metros and people movers, but also even various steel on steel rail systems, whether they be narrow gauge or light rail. Even large standard gauge heavy rail metros often have no real connections to the wider rail network and new vehicles are delivered by ship or truck rather than rail.
So Erm. Yeah. Any examples?
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Re: Hyperloop to start construction

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teccuk wrote:
supermop wrote:
teccuk wrote:But it's niche. Its amusement parks and tourist rides. One or two tiny systems and I think a reasonable sized on ein India. But its hardly the future transport the 60/70s promised it would be.
The systems I mentioned exclude tourist rides and are real urban rapid transit systems used every day as such by residents. I don't think many of these really could be considered "tiny" in the way that the Seattle monorail is - these systems are larger than many cities' proper heavy rail metro systems. They certainly are niche, but monorail (and maglev, and now hyperloop) have always been intended as niche products for very specific circumstances, that they may or may not ultimately excel at. No one seriously proposed replacing a national heavy freight rail network with concrete beam monorail, just as Elon Musk isn't trying to get BNSF or UP to haul coal across country in hyperloops. If anyone in the 60s was actually proposing that monorail was somehow the future for all types of rail haulage they were either an overeager Alweg salesperson or a SciFi writer who didn't fully grasp the concept. Hitachi's monorail division seems to be doing just fine in terms of sales, even if Hitachi makes much more in revenue from heavy rail. Monorail (and other light rubber tired systems) can be built elevated less obtrusively that heavy rail, and can handle steeper inclines. For some lines these criteria may be more crucial than through running with a national network or more familiar equipment.

Beyond monorail and hyperloop, there are plenty of other small guided transit concepts that have no way of interfacing with either road or standard gauge rail, yet are still successful without becoming ubiquitous; primarily rubber tired metros and people movers, but also even various steel on steel rail systems, whether they be narrow gauge or light rail. Even large standard gauge heavy rail metros often have no real connections to the wider rail network and new vehicles are delivered by ship or truck rather than rail.
So Erm. Yeah. Any examples?

Examples of what?
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Re: Hyperloop to start construction

Post by Sylf »

teccuk wrote:So Erm. Yeah. Any examples?
If you are looking for examples of guided transit systems: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_mover#Urban_transit
Check out Japan especially. One on that list runs inside a zoo. The rest are true public transportation. And it doesn't list Sapporo subway, which uses rubber tire metro system. So there's the argument that non-standard rail train system is viable.

But you can take the same list, and point to the Komaki Peachliner. The system did not attract the level of ridership originally expected, and had to discontinue the service. But shutting down such a service comes with its own problem too - what to do with the unused infrastructure? Abandoned stations attract vandalism. The unmaintained raised rail pose the risk of collapse eventually. But it takes so much money to disassemble, which nobody has.

So, when a system like this succeeds, it's great. When it fails, it fails spectacularly.
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Re: Hyperloop to start construction

Post by Kevo00 »

The rubber tyred idea is really a guided bus though - more of an adaptation of existing technologies rather than anything new.
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Re: Hyperloop to start construction

Post by rsdworker »

Komaki Peachliner - yeah i think they should demlish and rebuild as Normal railway which could benift because normal railways can be connected rather separate systems
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Re: Hyperloop to start construction

Post by Redirect Left »

Virgin have started investing in Hyperloop stuff, with projected times from London to Edinburgh of under 1 hour, using conventional rail its currently about 4 to 6 hours.

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Re: Hyperloop to start construction

Post by 10gamer »

2020, Just 1 test track successful, it would never succeed, too expensive, we tried before, aerotrains, hovertrains, monorails, only maglevs succeeded to a point.

Edit, The idea of a hyperloop existed since 1910, still not built in 2021
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Re: Hyperloop to start construction

Post by audigex »

10gamer wrote: 28 Apr 2021 23:03 2020, Just 1 test track successful, it would never succeed, too expensive, we tried before, aerotrains, hovertrains, monorails, only maglevs succeeded to a point.

Edit, The idea of a hyperloop existed since 1910, still not built in 2021
It's difficult to use the words "Will never succeed" around Elon Musk

He was never going to be able to build a mass-market Electric vehicle. I said so myself back in 2010, electric cars are a niche and would never be as good as a "real" car. 10 years later in 2020, I bought a Tesla Model 3. In less than a decade I want from scoffing at the idea, to handing over my own cash for one... and I'd have bought one earlier if I could have afforded it sooner

He was never going to be able to re-use a rocket's first stage, and he certainly wasn't going to be able to land the damn thing standing up on a pad at the launch site, or on a floating barge at sea. What an absurd idea... a couple of years later we watched them land 3 boosters from the same launch, two on land and one at sea. Now, they casually land and re-use boosters as though it was never considered impossible and have successfully tested a re-useable upper stage: admitedly not from orbit yet, but I think that's a matter of time. In less than 20 years SpaceX went from nothing, to taking people to the ISS and re-using both the booster and the Dragon capsule. NASA don't even have their own launch vehicle capable of doing that.

Is hyperloop ambitious as hell? Sure, and I suspect it might be a stretch even for Elon and his gang of crazy engineers.... but I've written him off too many times and been proven comprehensively wrong on each occasion, so I can't bring myself to say "will never succeed" when it comes to his crazy ideas
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Re: Hyperloop to start construction

Post by YNM »

audigex wrote: 03 Jun 2021 13:29Is hyperloop ambitious as hell? Sure, and I suspect it might be a stretch even for Elon and his gang of crazy engineers.... but I've written him off too many times and been proven comprehensively wrong on each occasion, so I can't bring myself to say "will never succeed" when it comes to his crazy ideas
Problem is that he have stopped working on the idea altogether, now the only "big enough" guy doing it is Branson of Virgin.

Honestly even if they don't get anywhere near the whole vacuum thing it's interesting to see at the propulsion method as it's basically yet another maglev. There's still one "type" of maglev not yet developed, and it'd be interesting to see it actually developed into a (potentially) useable standard.
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